How did they all drive off after the prison attack, didn’t at least one truck get it’s tyres blown out by a spike strip when they arrived at the prison?
There was one shot of a Humvee with the top mounted gun left in the yard after the Woodburians fled the prison “battle” scene. Not sure if it was still there when Rick returned with the school bus refugees.
Personally, I thought the boy Carl shot was thinking he could overpower Carl (and that the little boy wouldn’t shoot), and was trying to get close. I can’t be sure that was what they were trying to convey, but that was what I felt. I thought Carl was justified.
But he’s still a sociopath.
ETA: Guess I should read the whole thread before replying.
I am sorry to repeat myself, but this bothered us a good bit when we were watching, and as I think about it, I just cannot come up with the answer. I’m thinking there must have been some shot that I missed that would explain it.
How, if you were handcuffed to a dentists chair, would you use a pair of pliers to free yourself? How would you do this in five minutes with both hands restrained?
It appeared to us that she supposedly did something to the handcuff chains themselves, but that would be ludicrously unbelievable.
So, what did we miss?
It was also disappointing, given that this was a veteran bad-ass zombie surviving character, and that multiple zombies can generally be dispatched with such ease, that she was taken out in a one-on-one fight.
I figured they were going to show her removing a nut or bolt that held the arm to the chair, instead of working on the handcuffs themselves, but that’s clearly not what she was doing. Looked like she was squeezing the handcuff mechanism, which caused the ratchet to release. Color me dubious that that would work.
The teen Carl shot was definitely not cooperating, if the show meant for that to be a cold-blooded execution, they bungled it. When TWD has ambiguity, I can never tell what’s a deliberate choice and what’s inept execution.
Pretty meh finale.
I agree. Carl said “drop the weapon”, the kid took his sweet time thinking about it and had not actually dropped it before Carl plugged him.
It was confusing, and I don’t have a DVR - but it looked to me like the arms on the chair disappeared when she freed herself - so I assumed she was taking those off.
I agree that if she broke the chain or mechanism of the handcuffs, that is really dubious. Assuming these were real handcuffs, and not the ones you win at fair.
This.
The kid looked like he was"handing" the gun to Carl in order to get close enough to him to pull of some maneuver. Carl is a little sociopath, but taking out an enemy was the right move in this instance.
I can’t believe they’re going to stretch the stupid-ass Governor plotline into another season. I was assuming/hoping they would kill the Governor off and be done with it. His whole existence as a character is comic book-y nonsense.
Amen. Terrible casting, in my opinion. It’s a shame, because in the comics, she is a very enjoyable, bad-ass character.
I don’t think Carl is a sociopath (besides, you can’t diagnose sociopathy that young anyway). But in Carls mind, every time they showed mercy and let someone go, it ended up biting them in the ass (often literally). I mean two minutes ago, this kid was part of a raid by numerically superior forces that was trying to kill Carl and everyone he cares about. They should have just shot him on sight.
Really their entire stupid defense seemed based on Woodbury using the most idiot tactics possible. Which they did - drive a big trunk with everyone in it through the front gate, then have everyone get out and roam the dark, unfamiliar maze of zombie infested tunnels in a large group. It’s not a tank or APC. They could have killed every single person in that truck by firing from covered positions throughout the prison. Or they could have just sealed the door behind the Woodbury attackers and threw in some Molotov cocktails instead of flash bangs.
Really, the whole finale seemed contrived to NOT have Rick & Co massacre an army of idiots attacking their fortress.
For some time – several episodes – Carl has been challenging his dad’s leadership with some hard-hitting questions and observations. He has a “benefit” of growing and maturing in an entirely different world than Rick grew up – Rick is also formed as a person so it’ very hard for him to shake that off.
At the rate he’s going, Carl shows characteristics of closer to Governor’s style of leadership than his dad’s. Carl certainly does not spend any time or shows signs of self-doubting. He’s being formed more by events around him than steady parenting so the way I see it he is in a pure survival instinct mode. At times, Carl and Rick talk is heavily displaced – they talk about the same thing or event but using totally different ideas. It’s the most interesting dynamic so far (2nd part of S3). It’s a slow-brewing conflict that has nowhere to go but into a disaster.
Don’t get me wrong but you sound like something Andrea would say – and she did it throughout the second part of S3 – “I didn’t want anyone to die”. I recall even under the siege of Sarajevo by Serbs in the 1990’s people who were supposed to get together started new dynamic similar to what you see in the series. It is totally human reaction to a radically changed environment – I recall an event where a discussion on Serbian grenades and sniper shootings where someone asked a Serb what he thinks about it, he said: “I’m not worried, they (meaning Serb forces on the hills of Sarajevo) know where to shoot” - (he was essentially saying I’m okay as I’m not a target). The guy who asked the question shot him in the head, point blank. It’s a whole different dynamic living under those conditions and when anxiety and paranoia starts hitting better be prepared.
It seemed reasonable to me, as well. The guy was bigger than Carl, and might have been able to wrest the gun away from him if he dropped his guard.
I’m pretty sure they showed the handcuff on her left wrist opening, but I’ll have to re-watch it on DVR to be certain.
Yes, I am completely sick of that character, and was pleased that the one thing I could count on was not seeing him again. Joke’s on me, as it turns out.
And that’s what he should have told his father: “I told him to put the gun down, and he just sort of slowly held it out to the side with his hand still around the trigger. If he was really going to surrender, he’d have dropped it right away. It was just me, Herschel, and Beth out there, and I wasn’t screwing around.”
Tivo owner here, so I just spent a few moments jumping to and reviewing the scene with the magic pliers. She is absolutely working on the handcuff chain links. How a rather pedestrian set of Chinese slip-joint pliers that don’t even have a wire cutter can break the hardened links of a set of handcuffs is a little hard to imagine.
A better attention to detail would have had Milton drop a set of these instead of what he did drop, which were like these.
Rick should also remember that Hershel is so hesitant to shoot that he kept a barn full of zombies.
Was the “too slow to disarm” kid that Carl shot Asthma Boy?
I’m actually kind of thinking Carl might be a better choice to lead than Rick for the time being. I loved his “we’re a fookin’ daycare center now?” look when the folks got off the bus.
Agree that the absolute best possible way they could start the next season is to find out one of the Governor’s remaining henchmen shot him dead as soon as he came to a start after going Jonestown.
Rick’s inept leadership has played no small role in that. When showing mercy and compassion would be the smart thing to do (Tyreese’s group, the backpacker, Randall), he reacts with rage and violence. When showing rage and violence would be the smart thing to do (Andrew, Shane, the Governor), he reacts with mercy or indecision.
As a result, Carl has seen the downside of acting humanely, but no benefit from it.
The entire Woodbury force jogging in a tight formation across the open prison yard elicited some chuckles from me, that’s Civil War tactics. Even a decent shot like me could devastate that formation with with rifle fire. Give me my FN-FAL and I’ll take out 10 or 20 right from the off.
The defense plan also hinged on there being no counterattack (i.e., the Governor flipping out on his militia), seeing as how very few casualites were actually inflicted. Had they ralled and come back with more sensible tactics, the prison folks stood no chance. Abandoning the prison was the right idea in the real world; when you have the writers on your side, not so much.
How does no one on set point this out, and substitute a proper tool or have her remove the chair arm? Between the writers, prop guys, production design, and director, how many people had to sign off on that? Boggles the mind.
Also, did anyone else hear a shell casing hit the floor when Andrea shot herself with Rick’s revolver?
And Michonne and Andrea were definitely lovers, right? Or at least Michonne wanted them to be?
At the risk of beating this to death rather than just letting illogical and inconsistent stuff wash away, IIRC this confrontation occurred in some wooded area.
So, where in hell would Rick have placed Herschel, Beth and Carl that they would have been confronted by someone running from the fight? They’ve established that to get to the woods, you have to run a long way from the doors to the building.
Everyone else from Woodbury booked it for the truck. This kid, on the other hand, trucked it like the doodah man to the woods, where he stumbled upon perhaps the most vulnerable group. Heck, I’m surprised they didn’t have the baby propped up in the open there.
Again, it seems like the writers don’t bother with trivial details, favoring things that are visually or dramatically interesting instead. Sometimes I can see it ending up on film (like not bothering to think too much about the logistics of where or how this particular confrontation with Carl took place, in favor of having something happen that is honestly pretty interesting about Carl’s character’s development). On the other hand, sometimes, it seems like they would have to expressly work to not see obvious questions. For instance, with the handcuff thing, wouldn’t Laurie Holden ask something like, “Okay, when I pick up the pliers, what should I do with them in order to look like I’m freeing myself?”
I agree that the kid looked shifty, but I think a final “Drop the weapon or die!” would have been appropriate before just shooting him.
Also, I agree with the consensus that the Governor put together the lamest plan of attack imaginable. By all rights, his attack force should have been slaughtered.
Answer is right there in your question. By using a revolver, there is no ejected shell casing, it stays in the gun.