Just realized that I may have misread the above. I took you to mean that Team Grimes didn’t start anything with the Saviors, rather than that the Saviors didn’t start anyything with Team Grimes.
I’m not sure the former is true. Or, rather, I think the Saviors started it, but if someone wanted to argue that Rick’s preemptive attack was as morally questionable as it was strategically ill-thought, I would have to grant the possibility. But, as brutal as *Carol and Maggie *were last night, they were justified in that situation (though perhaps not overall).
Negan is/was a character in the comics, the leader of the Saviors.
AMC announced they’d cast an actor to play Negan. Can’t remember his name, but he played Daddy Winchester in “Supernatural,” among other things. Perhaps this was a misdirection or lie, but if so, AMC’s gettin’ mighty canny.
There was none of this “I am Spartacus” stuff in the comics. Negan is/was Negan, and no one else claimed to be Negan.
Last night’s episode was a departure from the comics, and seems indicative that more departure is likely; the AMC Governor wasn’t much like the comic version. However, the Negan arc in the comics was sufficiently hefty that I don’t think the TV show is going to let it go that easily. I’m betting Negan will show up, and there will be blood.
That being said, if I was a leader of a postapocalyptic army, and some band of yahoos slaughtered THAT many of my people, there would be no negotiations; I would kill them all. Assuming I had anything left to kill them WITH, considering Rick’s bunch have killed thirtysomeodd of my people and looted a rather substantial armory…
Negan can’t be done. What else would they do with the last 3 episodes? I think you have to expect that a TV season has to be some sort of ‘package’ so to speak.
Daryl met survivors in the woods who made Negan out as a terrible person. Admittedly, they weren’t real great people either…
The Hilltop Group repeated this line, noting that the Saviors beat a kid to death just to prove a point.
Oh, yeah, that mob of bikers that Daryl blew up. Not nice folks.
During the assault on the Saviors’ compound, Glenn notices that the decor in one room includes a bunch of Polaroid pictures of people with their heads bashed in.
From that one woman, we determine the Saviors aren’t even very nice to each OTHER, lopping off fingers for minor infractions.
From this, I conclude that:
However bad Rick’s bunch is, the Saviors are far worse.
In the WalkiDeadiverse, Polaroid film is still manufactured and apparently fairly easy to get.
Perhaps you are right, and the whole Negan arc has been concluded. Me, I’m betting Negan will turn up for the season finale, and that a regular cast member will get his walkin’ papers…
I am not a big fan of clever plot twists. But what (a) Negan is simply the name of the group, so Paula & Co.'s statement was the simple truth; (b) Team Grimes has pretty much wiped Negan out, as seems likely by the numbers, and (c) Team Grimes is on its way to becoming the new Negan–that is, outright bandits, as seemed to be the case early in the Alexandria arc? As much as I hate the phrase “it would be more interesting,” that WOULD engage me more than a recap of the comics arc.
Logic would indicate you are correct… but logic has little to do with television. As I noted earlier, any serious postapocalyptic warlord would take the loss of thirty fighters VERY seriously, and would either avoid Rick’s group… or seek to exterminate them. So I’m guessing Negan will capture Rick for a tense psychological episode, instead.
I’m guessing Negan has as many sol’jers as he needs, and will only fall when Rick or Morgan or somebody kills him or takes him prisoner, or makes him sing “I’m A Little Teapot,” or something.
The hiring of a specific actor would seem to indicate that the group theory is wrong. However, I could be wrong; AMC’s gone to some lengths to head off spoilers before.
Lastly, I’m guessing Negan isn’t crazy. We had a crazy villain already.
How on earth could you think that is not a spoiler, since we’re all arguing about whether it’s one character or not? We don’t know. If we wanted to know, we’d read the comics.
What’s the word for these half-seasons things? “Spring season”? Whatever, the week before this Spring season started, Entertainment Weekly ran a huge spread on the show. Regarding Negan, they said:[spoiler]Negan is a person, played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan.
Negan wields a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire.
Negan shows up……in the season finale.[/spoiler]
Going back to my Nazi comparison, I’m talking about the big picture. The larger context offered by hindsight. During those previous episodes I was totally on board with Rick’s group being the good guys. The last couple episodes I was totally on board with the pre-emptive strike against Negan. And I still half-believe that narrative.
But after the midnight massacre, I’m thinking about the show in terms of the struggle for the human race. The chances for the species to survive have only ever been decreased by Rick’s group. They have never done anything that has improved the species’ chances with the sole exception of saving (what remains of) the Alexandrians from the quarry zombie herd.
We have seen many functioning communities. We may not like their political structure, but it is inarguable that the communities were functional. In almost every case, we have seen all of these functional communities annihilated from contact with Rick’s group.
If you meant this sincerely, I don’t know what to tell you. Rick is the leader of the group that just snuck in the middle of the night and murdered their entire community in their sleep.
How much longer should they have waited before deciding Rick was an asshole who deserved to die?
That’s ignoring the fact that those so called functioningl communities were preemptively murdering other survivors. Governor murdered soldiers and others. Dawn’s doctor murdered a potential rival. Terminus murdered whomever didn’t buy into their cannibalism. Didn’t see any kids at Terminus but did see a huge pile of discarded toys. Negan’s group was going to kill Abe, Daryl, and Sasha. They did kill a teen at hilltop. And they admit their MO is to kill one to send a message to whomever they meet.
Contrast that to how Rick and Daryl deal with Jesus. There is no comparison. Now Rick’s methods may be impolite in civil society but the world they live in is far from civil.
One of my points is that if this situation happened the same way now, where Aaron comes back and reports soldiers with weapons and a tank a couple miles down the road from Alexandria, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Rick handle it the same way the Governor did.
Rick murdered Shane. Rick was fully prepared to murder everyone at Alexandria if they didn’t let Rick’s group come in and essentially take over.
Presumably all the kids were murdered by that brutal biker gang, which is what convinced the Termites that they could no longer be nice people that welcomed strangers.
I don’t really see this as particularly out there for the way the world is now. Dale’s morality is long dead; this world is now truly a primal clash of survival of the fittest. Killing one to quell future conflicts might even save lives in the long run.
Jesus was just a single guy. Compare apples with apples:
Negan shows up at hilltop, kills one person, demands fealty, then leaves Hilltop and lets them continue to self-govern. All that’s required is tribute.
Rick’s group shows up at Alexandria, and is prepared to kill everyone in town if they don’t let Rick’s group move in and set up shop.
Yeah we don’t know what Ricks group would have done in Alexandria. That’s pure speculation and the direction of your speculation is opposed to the way Rick’s group has behaved. With regards to murdering Shane that’s just ridiculous. Yes he killed Shane but it wasn’t murder.
Concerning Negan, no he didn’t just murder one with a brutal beating he also kidnapped and tortured two and had one of those attempt an assassination and decapitation of the leader of Hilltop in order to accomplish what?
That is more evil than eliminating a murderous group that also engages in torture and maiming. Especially since Rick’s group could have just stole the other 1/2 of Hilltops supplies. They are making a fair trade actually. Ask yourself this would you rather live in Rick’s group, Negan’s, the Governor’s, or Terminus?
This is undoubtedly true. He did say that. What we don’t know is how or even if he was serious. But let’s take him at his word and then compare and contrast to what other groups would have done.
Rick negotiated and worked to make Alexandria more secure and more just. He observed there was domestic violence and stepped in. Rick has never tolerated brutality for brutality’s sake nor to satiate or entertain a crowd. At great risk to himself and his core group they worked to eliminate threats to Alexandria while also looking for other decent survivors with the goal of offering them real sanctuary.
Now let’s project what others would have done. Negan would have beat one to death and took at least 1/2. To start. Terminus would have ate them. The Claimers would have killed the men and raped the women and children. The Governor I can see treating them as decently as he did the other members of Woodbury because I don’t think the Governor would have perceived them as a threat. That said the governor is still more depraved in how he runs a place.
Again, ask yourself what group would you rather be part of?
to be ‘part’ of? Rick’s - as long as I’m never sent on a mission with Glenn, since if one of us is going to die, I know it wont be him.
To meet on the road at random? anyone but Ricks. Negan, Governer both seem to just want workers - they are common warlords. Wolves are clearly the exception, but you won’t meet them anyway until its too late.
I’m starting my own damn group - everywhere Rick goes, death follows - but that’s likely true of things in ‘general’ for this show, as its how they create drama/archs and cliffhangers.
It’s also the same principle that makes Jessica Fletcher a serial killer - or atleast never invited to my home for brunch.
I consider viewing the Talking Dead to be essential to understanding the (faulty?) editing of the Walking Dead. Two hours of ZA entertainment. This would include the rolling credits and the previews. To each their own.
Speaking of spoilers, I watched TWD “live” on Sunday, and then again on Monday via Comcast/Xfinity. During showings of AMC commercials, the announcer said, “See how Maggie and Carol’s escape was created at AMC dot com after the show.” :rolleyes: Maggie and Carol hadn’t escaped yet. Oops. (It can be heard during the 0:53 minute of the shows 1:02 minutes run time on the Comcast/Xfinity.)