To Liberal: I'm not pitting you.. I'm just confused

The BBQ Pit
101

[QUOTE=Colibri]
You can be a witty and intelligent poster. It’s really a shame that your lack of self control leads you into these episodes so often.

In my personal opinion, although you have some positive qualities, I believe that overall you have had a negative effect on the board. If it were up to me, I would have banned you long ago for your disruptive tendencies. (Actually, I think that would have been better both for you and the board.) I was greatly disappointed to see you come back after your self-imposed exile. It was like seeing an alcoholic who has promised to stay on the wagon come striding back into a bar and start hoisting a few.
[/QUOTE]
If it’s any consolation, it’s nice to know that your motives are… philanthropic. :slight_smile: If you hadn’t cared about the alcoholic, his return wouldn’t have phased you. Once the PRR thing settles down, though — and you’ll be kind enough to admit that I am not the one keeping it on a perpetual front burner — you’ll see that I’m having pretty much just sasporillas.

102

[QUOTE=Colibri]
Quiddity, you haven’t been around long enough to have any perspective on this. To expect Liberal to get a clean slate here is to expect that Courtney Love or Michael Jackson could expect the same the next time they do something odd. **Liberal ** has been an ongoing freakshow since before I joined the board; his meltdowns and other bizarre behavior are legendary. This episode is very mild compared to others in the past.

Liberal has worked long and hard to achieve the odium many on the board feel for him. Who are you to try to deprive him of the fruits of it? For **Liberal, ** it doesn’t matter whether the attention is positive or negative, just as long as he is the center of it.

You are correct in thinking that someone should perhaps get a second, third, or even fourth chance. After the dozenth, however, all bets are off. And Liberal is well into the double digits.
[/QUOTE]

I have been around for a while. I got no real problem with Liberal. Sure, he has screwed up a few times and I disagree with him quite often, but he does contribute.

(So do you Colibri and more than Lib does, but you do seem to take on grudges hwaaaay too easy. Case in point.)

103

[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster]
I ‘judge’ people by how they treat other people. If that gets up your nose, well too bad. I don’t like mean. I hated Seinfeld because it was mean. I think mean is not funny and I agree with the Dalai Lama who says the world world would be a far better place if people developed ‘warm hearts’.
[/quote]

A person who had a little more sense then you might recognize that how people treat others often is informed by what they know of others and what their past experience with others might have been. Rather than wading in to sanctimoniously rap knuckles, such a person might inquire as to what those past interactions might have been to merit such responses – and they would make that inquiry before passing judgment. Like, oh say, olivesmarch has done. But not you, no; you chose the high road of sanctimoniously lecturing others, which is always a sure-fire way to change their minds and modify behaviors. I hear the Dalai Lama does it all the time.

Part of growing the fuck up is developing a sixth sense for when there might be more to a situation than at first appears. If you have a spare moment from warming hearts as you have in this thread, you might give growing the fuck up a try yourself. And if that advice gets up your nose, too bad.

104

[QUOTE=ColibriSome notable landmarks in the history of Libertarian/Liberal:
Libertarian proposes SDMB awards, but ends up taking it way too seriously when they don’t go over too well:
Nov 16, 2001
Looking for volunteers for SDMB APAS
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...89&page=1&pp=50[/quote]

Nothing horrible here. Liberal had an idea that I’ve seen suggested and supported by moderators on other forums. He misjudged the ill-will of people, as I likely would. It’s not the greatest of ideas because people are prone to abusing such systems. Nonetheless, perfectly good and intelligent people I’ve known on other forums made as impassioned pleas for such systems and were as displeased when they went bust. However Liberal had plenty of support initially for the plan and I didn’t see anything insulting in his replies to people who didn’t like the idea.

I truly think this is a case of people interpreting things through the filters of their feelings about someone, but I didn’t see the negativism justified here.

Again, you’ve shown me an abundance of mean-spiritedness aimed at Liberal, who did precious little to deserve it.

I sure hope you’re not a lawyer, because so far, this ‘evidence’ is proving your opposing’s case.

So? I’ve seen plenty of people take plenty of ‘breaks’ from boards that didn’t last. I’ve seen people swear up and down to leave forever and come back under another identity.
In this case, I did see quite a few fond farewells and, for once, fewer attacks. That was nice. The guy was sick of being piled on for things and blamed for others when he wasn’t the instigator and thought he should go away for a while. Can’t blame him.

Again, so? He made one announcement, said it was a bookmark to remind himself to stay away, and then the thread goes on for two pages of people attacking him to the point that a mod stepped in to try to get some of the more virulent people to stand down. And yet Liberal didn’t, true to his word, return to that thread. I couldn’t have stayed away. I’m amazed he did.

Again, I see a lot of support for him and at least one moderator striving mightily to get people to be reasonable. Which appears to be futile. So the guy is in bad health and mentioned it. Again, this is really not anything so hideous that people should work themselves into frothing apoplexy over. Yet they do.
Frankly, all you’ve done is discourage me in that I see a lot more bile and hate than I expect of reasonable people.

Given that Liberal didn’t say ‘I’m a goner so be nice to me’, I can see why he was ticked. And I also saw a lot of warm welcomes.

Frankly, I’m astonished he ever came back, given how hateful so many people have been to him.

Well, thanks for proving what I suspected; that the people who hate him so do so on principle; he likely has done nothing to be on the receiving end of such bile, and that this is a sad example of group-think of the worst, most depressing sort.

105

[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster]
I’ve seen plenty of people take plenty of ‘breaks’ from boards that didn’t last. I’ve seen people swear up and down to leave forever and come back under another identity.
[/quote]
And plenty of people swear up and down when they see this behavior repeated ad nauseum, whatever poster(s) are involved. What such outbursts generally indicate are lack of control, addiction to dramatics and a compulsive need for attention, which gets wearying.

If you’ve got to take a break - just go. There’s this thing called e-mail in which you can discuss whatever Wagnerian crisis you’re going through and what your plans are.

I know of one board that has an explicit policy that if someone does one of these “Goodbye, Cruel World!” posts, hoping to garner attention and pleas to stay from acolytes, they will be taken at their word and banned.

Good idea.

106

[QUOTE=Jodi]
A person who had a little more sense then you might recognize that how people treat others often is informed by what they know of others and what their past experience with others might have been.
[/quote]

Really? What a shocking revelation. Clearly, I was in need of enlightenment.
Let me now posit to you that how people treat others is a function of how they perceive others and their subjective interpretation of those others’ motives and behaviour. Which itself is a function of their own issues, personality, philosophy, and a number of other things. And because I am aware of this, I am highly unlikely to take someone else’s perception for my own.

In the threads that Colibri linked to ‘prove’ how horrid Liberal is, I saw a whole lot of people who seem to think the opposite of him; that he is not only a good sort, but an admirable one. Surely you can’t think that your opinion is truth, or even the correct one? It is yours and you are welcome to it. I’ll have my own, however, if it’s all the same to you.

Surely you cannot possibly think that whatever reasons you may have for disliking a poster could justify attacking every post he makes? Because no argument could ever be made that would persuade me to that end.

You may dislike someone. I’m sure you have your reasons and they may seem reasonable to you. I will not buy that as justification for being unfair. Period.

107

[QUOTE=Jackmannii]

I know of one board that has an explicit policy that if someone does one of these “Goodbye, Cruel World!” posts, hoping to garner attention and pleas to stay from acolytes, they will be taken at their word and banned.
[/QUOTE]

And I know of boards that won’t allow Pit behaviour at all, and that actively discourage the type of behaviour towards other posters that you (vous) display here to the point that people guilty of it are banned.

108

[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster]
Let me now posit to you that how people treat others is a function of how they perceive others and their subjective interpretation of those others’ motives and behaviour. Which itself is a function of their own issues, personality, philosophy, and a number of other things. And because I am aware of this, I am highly unlikely to take someone else’s perception for my own.
[/quote]

No, but your are apparently highly likely to expect people to take your perception for their own, as demonstrated by how freely you sit in judgment on others, replacing their conclusions with your own and making sweeping generalizations about the Board such as “the people who hate him so do so on principle; he likely has done nothing to be on the receiving end of such bile, and that this is a sad example of group-think of the worst, most depressing sort.”

I have no problem with you drawing your own conclusions, and identifying them as such; I find your pompous proclamations as to others’ experiences must have been, and must be based on, to be both presumptious and bitchy.

I’d have no problem with it if you applied this reasoning (“Surely you can’t think your opinion is truth, or even the correct one?”) to yourself, but you don’t. Your myopia in this regard is truly ironic.

I have absolutely no interest in persuading you of anything or making your “buy” anything. I can’t imagine what I personally might have posted that would make you think that I would allow you to sit in judgment on my motivations or thoughts, under any circumstances. The fact is, you are the veriest noob and quite literally do not know what you’re talking about. Attempts to clue you in only invite further judgmentalism on your part. So by all means, enjoy the self-righteousness of believing yourself the defender of Truth. The only question is whether you will have enough backbone to eat your appointed serving of crow when the time comes. I won’t be holding my breath.

Perhaps you’d be more comfortable on such boards? But as long as you’re judging the rest of us while down here in the mud of the Pit yourself, you look like nothing so much as a hypocrite. A pompous, self-righteous hypocrite, but a hypocrite just the same.

109

[QUOTE=Jodi]
No, but your are apparently highly likely to expect people to take your perception for their own, as demonstrated by how freely you sit in judgment on others, replacing their conclusions with your own and making sweeping generalizations about the Board such as “the people who hate him so do so on principle; he likely has done nothing to be on the receiving end of such bile, and that this is a sad example of group-think of the worst, most depressing sort.”
[/quote]

I should have said ‘seemingly do so on principle’. I did say ‘likely’, however.

You’re not making sense here.

I find it interesting the extent to which people will go to defend their right to hate. Not very pleasant, but interesting.

If you, at any point, come up with a justification for piling on a poster’s posts simply because you dislike him (as opposed to piling on him because you think his logic is bad or his arguments unsupported), please do let me know. I’ve not got an answer yet.

110

I’ve been lurking on this board for six years, and I just started posting a few weeks ago.

With that said, I must agree with the sentiment that Liberal is one of the most infamous posters on the board. His antics, for better or for worse, garner attention in a most dramatic fashion.

I actually like it, but I also like watching crashes in NASCAR, so take that for what it’s worth.

I guess my point is that I think Liberal is a nice, intelligent person, but just has a massive attention-garnering desire/disorder that tends to put all the other good posts of his into a negative light.

As for Quiddity, dude, just drop it. Seriously, there is no need to perpetuate this crusade. I agreed with you about the negative pile-ons, but all your doing in continuing this argument is merely creating more drama. Right or wrong, my advice is to just let it go.

111

[QUOTE=Autolycus]
I’ve been lurking on this board for six years, and I just started posting a few weeks ago.

[/QUOTE]

your join date is 2002. which means you’ve paid to post longer than a few weeks ago.

112

[off-topic]

Not necessarily - I first posted back in 2001 or something, without paying, then lurked for 4 years, then got a subscription for my birthday in 2005, and my join date reflects the time of my initial posting, not the time of my subscription payment.

[/off-topic]

113

Quiddity, I would like to respond to part of your post, and I am not presuming in any way to speak for for Jodi.

You said this: “If you, at any point, come up with a justification for piling on a poster’s posts simply because you dislike him (as opposed to piling on him because you think his logic is bad or his arguments unsupported), please do let me know. I’ve not got an answer yet.”

Well, here in the Pit, and on many other boards, newgroups or whatever, I don’t need any “justification” at all. I don’t like the board persona put forth by the person who uses the screenname Liberal here, and If I wish to post vitriolic shit about him I will with glee and abandon. I am not required to be nice here in the Pit. In other forums I am, and adhere to that.

Some people here know each other IRL. Fine. I don’t, and never expect to. I respond to shit posted here for entertainment, and don’t really give a shit what a poster may be like IRL.

Lib is free to castigate me as well. I am not sure you understand flaming, or the Pit in general. So quit trying to make the Pit “A Better Place” and just fucko off. :stuck_out_tongue:

114

[QUOTE=Caiata]
[off-topic]

Not necessarily - I first posted back in 2001 or something, without paying, then lurked for 4 years, then got a subscription for my birthday in 2005, and my join date reflects the time of my initial posting, not the time of my subscription payment.

[/off-topic]
[/QUOTE]

bullshit. doesn’t correspond to the poster history of the poster I quoted. and you aren’t the poster I quoted, yet you resond with ‘I’ and “my”. try again.

115

Wring

I registered under a different name in 2002. Payment was not required at that time, as far as I remember. I made a trifling 3-4 threads, then I vanished.

A few weeks ago, I paid up, changed my name, and started posting.

I hope that answers your question.

116

Um. Wow. I just wanted to say thanks to Colibri for taking the time to dig up those old threads so I could have a better sense of where all this is coming from.

I guess I’m torn. I can’t get past that we’re all just human beings here.

On the other hand, this is the Pit.

I’m really at a loss for words right now, can’t get the right thing out. Maybe the morning will bring some clarity. Or maybe in the morning I won’t care any more. Either way, it’s cool. :wink:

117

Holy Christ, this thread went TrainWreck fast.

I apologize to all for my absence for the last day and a half.

[QUOTE=Liberal]
I feel that, given your life experience, it is a perfectly reasonable position. Incidentally, I don’t believe in the Bible either. :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

Thank you. That’s exactly what I wanted to hear. I have absolutely no problems with those who believe in “god”, or who choose to live by the ten commandments. I am somewhat confused, however, by those who take the bible literally, and belive that Noah had all the animals on his ark, etc…

[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
No it sounds as though Eleusis deliberately implied (depectively) that he was Christian, then wandered away from it without making his feelings clear. Now his girl has problem with it. No big surprise.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, back in '99, I still considered myself one, though I hadn’t really thought it out thoroughly. In 8 years, my views have changed somewhat.

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
Eleusis, you might want to ask the Pit Mods to simply close this thread, then start a new thread that appears to be a bit more coherent.
[/quote]

Fair enough. Go ahead and close it, unless Liberal objects. I didn’t mean it to turn this way, I just wanted to know something. Now it’s just another pile on that stinks like shit.

118

Yes, Liberal must be astonishingly brave, like he described you - or perhaps he’s a goofball with a martyr complex, as others might describe you.

119

Wow, the Pit really mucks with people’s perceptions, hmm?

No, I’m not the poster you quoted. I, uh, knew that. I even quoted him!

My point was just that someone can have a join date from early 2000s but might have only paid for their subscription to continue posting recently. I was using my own posting history as an example, as I suspected I was in a similar situation to Autolycus. Hence the “Not necessarily -” part of my post. Sorry for leaving the last bits of connective tissue out of that first post, but it’s hard to know how much over-explanation is necessary in a textual medium … and at the time I didn’t want to sound like I was patronising you.

Of course, now I do. :stuck_out_tongue:

*Edit - mucked up a smiley. Oops! :o *

120

[QUOTE=Autolycus]

I guess my point is that I think Liberal is a nice, intelligent person, but just has a massive attention-garnering desire/disorder that tends to put all the other good posts of his into a negative light.
[/quote]

'K. It can’t just be me that can’t figure out how words on a screen can be construed as ‘attention-garnering’ from one poster but not others. You’re doing it right now, as am I. We are placing our views where they can be read by a lot of strangers. Past that, how is this one poster that much more odious than others? None of the links I saw proved a thing.

Not a dude. Unless you are using the general ‘dude’ :stuck_out_tongue:

And at this point I’m just responding to questions/responses aimed at me. If you would like to continue with the OP’s question, be my guest.