To my ex-wife, re: child support

The BBQ Pit
61

Sorry, folks. I didn’t mean to open up diatribes on child support pro and con.

For what it’s worth, my ex is now making about $600 more per month (including alimony and child support) than I made three years ago when I was the sole breadwinner in the family. She has no car payment – we paid cash for the minivan she drives. Her house payment is under $500/month because we put a ton of money down on the house when we bought it. I pay for the kids’ insurance and half of all doctor, dentist and prescription bills. She lives in a small town in Alabama, so the cost of living isn’t very high. Although I wouldn’t recommend it, theoretically it would be possible for her to not work at all and just live off of child support.

I’m not saying this to beat my chest and proclaim myself super-divorced-dad – Lord knows I’m not. I just want to give some clarification on the situation, and explain my frustration a little better.

This weekend we celebrated the kids’ birthdays. The kids literally couldn’t think of anything for my current wife and I to get them, because they’ve got a ton of toys at their house. The nine-year-old suggested a golf cart, which I nixed quickly. (A golf cart?) My ex never responded to my repeated e-mails asking what she was getting them, so we could avoid duplication. Finally we got a handful of very small gifts, which the kids (to their credit) were very happy with.

I want my children to grow up happy and healthy and not worrying about money. But I don’t want to finance a never-ending parade of toys. And right now my ex is getting around $250 more per month in child support than she’s supposed to, according to our state’s guidelines.

62

That just fucking does it…
Annie, you said that “BTW, the child support office collects child support, they don’t do visitation enforcement.” and you know something? You’re absolutely correct. The CHILD SUPPORT office doesn’t enforce VISITATION rights. You know who does??

Absolutely fucking NOBODY. The ONLY thing the fucking states are concerned with is getting money from Parent A to Parent B. [ PLEASE NOTE: this is NOT…repeat NOT…again, REPEAT NOT] a case against child support in general. I paid my child support on time for years, and didn’t mind. (And for those morons who want to make a case about the semantics of that phrase, go fuck yourselves. Let’s try to concentrate on what’s important, huh?)

But here’s what (among other things) got my bile steaming: I had my child support taken right out of my paycheck (MY choice, for many reasons). Despite this, one time the check was late in getting to her by a couple of days. Did she call me to ask if there was a problem? No. Did she call the child support office to see if there was a problem? Again, no. What she DID do was call the child support office and file a complaint against me (via their toll-free number, as she was 1000 miles away in another state). Did these oh-so-dedicated motherfucking dickwads do me the courtesy of calling/writing me to see if there was a problem. Shit no. I found out that the check was a couple of days late BEING PROCESSED BY THE FUCKING CHILD SUPPORT OFFICE when the fucking cops showed up at my doorstep and arrested me.

Nice fucking image for the neighbors, huh?

After posting bail, it took me a fucking week to get the morons at the child support office to agree that it was THEIR goddamn fault that the check was late; and another MONTH to get the fucking charges officially dropped by the police.

An apology from the child support office or my ex??? It is to fucking LAUGH.

Now then, here’s my point (PAY ATTENTION, YOU SCUM-SUCKING ASSHOLES):

When my ex thought she was being shorted, all…LITERALLY ALL she had to do was call up the state, make a complaint, and then just fucking go to sleep. The goddamn state stepped in with all its power and authority, to get that dirty little scum-sucking deadbeat dad who had the temerity to fall behind in his moral and state-ordered duty to cough it up.

And it cost me time, money and reputation (think my neighbors were impressed with my explanation of the incident? As if I should have had to be in that position anyway).

But (slaps morons to get their silly little attention) when she refused to obey HER moral and state-ordered duty to provide transportation so I could see my sons (the state ordered her to pay 80% of said travel costs), did the state step in with the same authority and power???
falls on the floor laughing so hard milk comes out of my nose
Despite a STATE order, the goddamn motherfucking STATE said it had no authority to enforce its own fucking order. I literally would have had to drip to fucking Texas, and THEN if she didn’t give me my kids, I STILL would not have had any fucking recourse!!! I would have had to hire a fucking TEXAS attorney, fight her in court (driving down to Texas for every court date, most likely) and THEN if she didn’t give me my kids, I would then have the right (finally!!!..I had a right!!!)…to have the sheriff throw her in jail. Like that would help my relationship with my sons…

…and of course, since I was THERE…spending my own money (which is what she wanted anyway…
Here’s the fucking point, finally: yes, the child support office doen’t enforce visitation rights.

BUT IT GODDAMN WELL SHOULD ENFORCE THE OTHER HALF OF THE CHILD SUPPORT ISSUE, NOT JUST THE FUCKING FINANCIAL PART.

For anybody who has a brain with the capacity larger than that of a tapeworm, that should be self-evident. Yet the fucking states continually chant their mantra of how well they are enforcing child support payments, and at the same time refusing to even ACKNOWLEDGE that there is a problem with visitation. Good God above, this is one reason why there are so many angry fathers out there…we literally are treated as nothing more than walking wallets. Cough it up, Jack, or we’ll throw your ass in jail. Oh, your ex-wife won’t let you see your kids? Gee, that’s too bad…sorry; go away, we can’t help you.

Oh, and don’t forget to cough it up…

Oh, and Sauron, don’t forget to have an actual calendar date stating when your child support should cease. I failed to do that, and despite ample clear evidence (including a statement from my ex-wife supporting my position), it still took the fucking state 6 fucking MONTHS to stop the payments.

Six months that I never did or will get back…I would have to hire a fucking attorney and fight the state in court for, oh, years…

63

You guys make me so happy that i’m out of that child support game.

Now, I submit a sheet of my son’s expenses to his dad once a month, and we split it in half. We didn’t completely do away with cs, but have had it taken down (in court, by a lawyer…its worth the cost) to $1 a month.

Yeah, I don’t get paid for the expense of having an extra bedroom in the house, but he’s gotta have an extra bedroom in the house as well, so I figure it works out. This does suck tho, because he’s got the benefit of having a working spouse…oh well, I guess I could get married and have the extra income too.

As horrible as some of these stories are though…I don’t think its the cs-enforcers that are to blame as much as the thousands (or whatever) of dads who just don’t give a shit about their kids. Who never pay. Who (like my ex) jump from job to job…or get a job making mostly tips so that whatever paycheck they have garnished is bs.

I’m lucky. My ex has decided to turn around and be a good responsible father. Its worked out really great for us. I may be too cynical, but I think I’m in the minority.

Rysdad…a word of advice. I’ve been on the receiving end of getting continually screwed when it comes to child support. I suggest you work out those feelings. It doesn’t do you any good to be so pissed off all the time. Sometimes, you just have to suck it up, and wait for better times to come.

64

Toaster52, that was a thing of beauty.

wipes tears from eyes

65

Which is not to say that people shouldn’t attempt to fix problems if they see a solution that would work.

66

…drip!!!..
DRIP to Texas??
sigh…ruins such a good rant…

67

Once again, the other side of the story, and another state.
I’m in Maryland, for what it’s worth. My ex-husband’s CS was taken out of his check, too, after he repeatedly refused to pay me directly. I think Maryland does it that was now for everyone, regardless of the circumstances.

When a week went by with no check, I was not allowed to call to complain. I repeat, NOT ALLOWED. There was no 800 number to call. Calls to the CS office were for info on filing initial claims only.
To report non-payments (I don’t know why they didn’t keep track of it; heavy caseloads would be my guess), I had to write a letter, have it notarized, and send it by certified mail to their offices. That was in my papers on how to file a claim for non-payment.
I never really got any feedback on why payments were late or missing. If I asked my ex, he’d sometimes tell me that he started a new job and that the payments would be delayed a week or two.

My ex was one of the ones who would move around, quit jobs, take jobs that paid cash under the table, take jobs over the state line, whatever it took to stay one step ahead of the CS enforcement officers. I usually didn;t have a phone number for him to find out why payment had stopped.
Yes, he ended up spending a couple of weekends in jail for non-payments (for falsifing employment records). He and his father have the same name, and several times he gave his new employer his father’s Social Security number, to avoid being found for CS payments.

When I remarried, and my new husband wanted to adopt my daughter, my ex owed me about $5,000 in back support. He was more than willing to sign away his parental rights, because he thought it would wipe out that back support debt. Sorry, Charlie, but no. He didn’t owe me any more CS after the adoption took place, but did still owe me the back support. I got some of it (this was about 5 years ago), and just last summer I got $500 out of the blue. I think he still owes me about $2,000.

68

Kinsey -
I am asking in innocence, why didn’t you have the debt wiped away when he wiped away his parental rights?
As I have not been in this situation I am curious.

69

I can answer that, Symplicity…child support debt, like school loans, never goes away, and is not wiped out by cancelling parental rights. Not even bankruptcy removes child support debt. Good thing, too, or we’d have tons of assholes filing bankruptcy just to avoid paying child support.

70

so then signing away your rights and bankruptcy would just become more means for the ncp to end the financial support.
gotcha, thanks!

71

I think you are wrong about the automatic withdrawal in MD unless it’s something that’s been implemented in the last year or two.

72

and theres is another side to the situation — i am married to a man who has children with someone else.

i have issues with our child support officers–

when filing out the paper work to set the amount of childsupport the NCP has to report the amount of income his/her spouse has ( and verify it by sending in check stubs) i called once to ask a question about the case and was told it " was none of my busiess" as i was not the CP or NCP – i beg to differ-- if I have to send you my check stubs, it damn well became my business-- my husband had to send a written letter saying it was ok for the CSRU to discuss the case with me. I posed a question to the support worker about the costs of raising kids-- why is it that it takes 750 to raise the two kids that this order involves, but he is only given 90 credit for having two other kids ( with me) – funny, how much less it costs to raise my kids.
also in the worksheet you fill out to have child support set it has you list you monthly bills. my husbands ex was claiming full time day care costs and had reciepts – for her children that she has from her second marriage ( CSRU accepted this becase the children whom the order pretained to still went to the sitters once everyother thursday in months that have 31 days ) what kind of shit is that?? my husband is now paying for daycare for children that are not his-- while we work opposite hours so we can afford to send our children to daycare 16 hrs a week. and the support workers NEVER EVER see that this is not right. I think the only people who work in the child support recovery feild are vindictive, hateful of men, battle axes–

and as far as enforcing visitation-- we never know if my step kids are coming on the weekends we are supposed to have visitation. It all depends on if their mother feels like letting us “have them” she does in all actuality have the power to decide when they come. if they are not home when my husband gets there at 6:00 pm on Friday to pick them up, what can he do? he can file a complaint on Monday-- what does that get him? not a damn thing–

i feel so bad for any father who goes through this bull shit

73

Gah. I really wish that exes - of both sexes - wouldn’t be such flaming assholes to each other. It makes both sides look bad, and it makes it pretty damn difficult for the system to work well at all.

In our case, Mr. Seawitch has two sons (twin boys) from a prior marriage. He was in the Army for a while, in Kosovo, and his court-ordered child support was more than his entire monthly pay. The state pays the ex - and they in turn collect directly from his paycheck. In his case, the legal max deduction was 50% - and though he voluntarily paid more, he still fell behind in money due the state.

Fast forward in time until he and I meet. When he and I first started living together, his ex-wife tried to garnish my wages for shortages in his child support. Mind you, it wasn’t money owed to her, but to the state, and he and I were not legally married at the time. She was furious that she didn’t have a right to my money in addition to his - and to this day, doesn’t seem to understand why.

We don’t have any intention of shortchanging the boys, and in fact are setting up independent college funds - but we’ll do that outside the system, and we certainly don’t dare leave it in control of the ex. She’s a good mother. It’s just sad that we can’t trust her when it comes to money.

74

Holy cow. That’s terrible, misstee. I’m beginning to think Alabama isn’t so backward, after all. Here it doesn’t matter what the spouse of a divorced person makes – child support is figured solely on the parents’ incomes. If there’s additional child support from a previous marriage for either parent, that’s figured in too. But not from a current spouse.

75

Slight hijack

My son is 23. My ex is one of those people who moves, changes jobs, works for cash, etc. Every July I receive a check for back CS, taken from the ex’s tax refund. At the current rate of payment ($500/yr), the last check should arrive when my son is 40.

76

(Originally posted by ouisey)

You are so right. I have callouses on my head from banging it against walls and having doors slammed in my face. Before I offer my apologies to the Teeming Millions, I’d just like to state a few things for the record:

I have never been late with any child support payments since their inception–whether I was working for someone of self-employed (until this last week. The support amount was changed, and I was waiting for a new statement. What I got wasn’t a statement but a threatening letter stating that they were going to intercept any state tax refund I was going to get, or any lottery winnings over $600 (?) if I didn’t send in the new amount ASAP). I have my son 5 evenings out of 10 weekdays, and every other weekend. Those times are sacrosanct; I don’t let anything interfere with them. My son and I have a warm, loving relationship and greatly enjoy each other’s company. I do not disparage his mother in front of him, nor do I bitch to him about child support. My son is well-adjusted, ahead of the curve in some areas, and he needs some additional help in others. My greatest pride is how well my son is doing and that he feels good about himself.

My problem is how child support is calculated, collected and enforced. Prior to all of this, I would never have believed that a legal system, supposedley based in justice, could be so god damned cockeyed as to defy description.

So, I guess it’s like that situation when there’s an old man sitting on the porch with his hound dog sitting next to him, howling away. A guy walks up and says, “What’s wrong with your dog?” The old man replies, “He’s sitting on a nail.” Then the guy asks, “Why doesn’t he move?” The old man says, “He figures he’ll get used to it.”

Anyway, this is the apology: I’m sorry for coming off as such a roaring maniac when I encounter some of the things I’ve seen in this thread (and others). I’d like to just “get used to it,” but it’s darn hard when, at every turn, I encounter roadblocks, detours, and attitude.

Suffice it so say for now, “fuck it.” My son and I need to plan a fishing trip.

77

After reading all of these posts, I have to echo seawitch’s sentiment:

Although I have no children and, to the very best of my knowledge, neither does Mr’zania, my niece is recently divorced and it has taken an act of god to get the child support she needs to properly care for [bold] their [/bold] child. He’s earning good money and really has no other obligations either.
On the other hand, a previous employee (and good friend) kept getting letters from the state of California attempting to garnish his wages for a child that [bold] wasn’t his[/bold]. Never mind that they had the result of the paternity test and never mind that he hadn’t lived with her for years and years. About every 3 years she’d file a claim and they’d come hunting him down. Always cost him a boodle or the lawyer too.

78

Kinsey - You weren’t ‘allowed’. I was told to ‘handle it myself’. His c/s was also withheld from his checks. His employer (a large one in the area), held onto it for over a month. (so one was over a month late, the next was merely two weeks late) etc.

I complained to the worker assigned to me. She wouldn’t do anything, even tho’ it’s mandated by law that once withheld from the paycheck, the monies must be forwarded on within five calendar (not business) days . And, like I said, this was a large employer who undoubtably had quite a few c/s payments to deal with. The employer refused to discuss it with me, the caseworker refused to do anything. I submitted a letter to the CEO of the organization suggesting that it wouldn’t be a good publicity mode for his hospital to have people publically complaining that they were illegally holding on to child support payments.

So, they released the payments that time, and did it again a few years later.

I know that it doesn’t help Rysdad but the system sucks big time for all parties, IME. (the one thing they were on top of was that the support was cut off when our son turned 18)

79

To clarify, I wasn’t “allowed” to call the CS offices. They just wouldn’t take calls, other than giving out info for filing initial claims and giving directions to their offices. You had to write letters for all matters.

And stories like misstee’s just make my head spin. Yes, it sucks for all parties involved.

The reason I didn’t cancel out the past due CS owed when my second husband adopted my daughter was I couldn’t. I didn’t have the option. It’s money owed for his child; it’s not a gambling debt that a loan shark can forgive.
I assume the money I got last summer was taken from a tax refund. I haven’t gotten anything since then, so I can only assume that he’s moved or changed jobs again.

I also see it from the step-parent side. My husband has a daughter, too, from his first marriage (whom I have since legally adopted), and her long-absent mother owes us quite a bundle in CS. She’s never paid a cent. My huband has always had custody of her, and was supposed to get CS from her, but she never paid him anything.
She always had this warped POV that the mother should have custody and get CS from the father, so when the father has custody, there’s no CS involved.

Of course, two people who create a child together should always be civil to each other and get along for the sake of the kids, and should pay the child support, but it just doesn’t always happen that way.

80

If this be so, I retract my comments, and accept chastisement. I just get freaked when I see people with anger about some aspect of parenting (ie: people who rag on about asshole ex, in front of a kid who’s thinking "hey, does that make me half asshole?) You never know for sure if it is in isolation, but what you say about your son’s talents in some things and needs in others says you are paying attention to his mind and nature.

Toaster: not agreeing with your venom but agree with your point. I don’t know of anyplace that can effectively enforce access. Short of bringing in cops or sherrifs to drag kids out of the house (hell’s own remedy) or drag CP off to the pokey for contempt of court order (again, a lovely thing for the kid to see), I’m stumped. I know a woman who wants the sherrifs to drag dad in to see their kids. But then, the visitation/support (or having child support office enforce visits) shouldn’t be linked lest the rule becomes “cheque bounced. No visit for you!!” Paging King Solomon.

I think that’s sexism but her logic does not compute. I have this radical idea that all competencies being similar, the parent most able to financially support the child should get custody. Being a woman doesn’t give you special parenting powers (although actually caring for the child does). A lot of fathers (because of apathy, maternal ‘gatekeeping’, or whatever) never develop competencies in child care during the marriage though, so it’s not always a “dad makes more so he gets custody” thing either. But if he actually knows how to care for kid(s), and he can best provide, why shouldn’t he get custody?

“But”, I hear in the background,“if my ex had to look after the kids they’d eat nothing but Cocoa Pebbles and he’d send them to school in their jammies!” I’ve heard this before, and my answer is “never breed with someone who you wouldn’t trust to raise your child without you. Do some research http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/ . You don’t have to have kids if you don’t want them, so if you want them, do it right! Choose a good mate, then have kids.”