That 12 yr old boy (really 11 1/2) was very worried about his aunt who was very sick. He wanted to get up to her apartment to see her condition. There were several atempts to call her but there was no answer. The whole family was worried as the aunt suffered from a medical condition which made her particularly sensitive to the heat. The boy ran the 20 blocks to check up on her and still had severaly more floors to climb. He would have gone back down to help the old lady, FOR FREE, if everything was OK, but it wasn’t. His Aunt was sufferign a heat stroke. He had to get her fluids and lower her body tempature. If he didn’t get there in time his aunt would have been dead by now.
Huh kanicbird? Is this a hypothetical or do you have some knowledge of the case as well?
Uh, from the little, old lady as I was helping her up the stairs to her apartment.
Kanicbrid - Cute hypothesis…terribly, terribly inaccurate. As I pointed out, the building has uniformed security that is always easily reached. They will (and have on many occasions) broken into units to assist those who are ill. No need to send a child “running 20 blocks” to check on “Auntie” when there are trained professionals available to go door to door checking on the infirm residents (which they did).
Miller – Seriously? When I was six I might not have realised the seriousness of condition she was in, but I would’ve definitely realised “she looks really sick.” By twelve years old, I would’ve known at least to tell a grown up. It’s not like she was just sitting there patiently as she would if she was waiting for a bus or knitting a sweater. She was panting, gasping and looking quite, noticeably and unmistakably ill. At the very least, even as a six-year-old I would’ve asked the lady if she wants me to get a grown-up.
No worries kambuckta, no one in that buiding ended up suffering from heat stroke or anything else. That co-op has quite a fantastic community (and many infirm residents) so an ad hoc committee went door to door with security to check on residents and pets. Wheelchair-bound tenants were pretty much stranded, so an unofficial “neighbour support system” sort of came into play so people could run errands for them and take their dogs out.
The building also has an emergency generator to keep a few lights on in the halls. The only real worries were that residents could have been stuck in the elevator (no one was – that was the first place security checked) or that someone would be overcome by the strain of climbing the stairs.
Taking our 74-year-old out for brunch and going down the stairs we saw some residents helping a neighbour with a spinal condition get up to the tenth floor :eek:
Alas, it seems that not everyone had the good luck of thoughtful neighbours. A Toronto man died because it took so long for anyone to look in on him. 
So you’re basing your outrage on the word of a delirious, sickly old lady when there are no other witnesses, and you don’t even know which kid she was talking about? Not to dismiss this woman’s pain, but O.J. was acquitted in the face of much more compelling evidence.
How does she know that the kid was 12 years old? Kids grow much faster these days, he could have been 9 or 10 but had the physical appearance of a 12-year-old. Plus, she did not ask for help, she offered him two bucks to carry “one small bag” for her. For all we know, he might have initially wondered if the lady needed help, but once she offered him money, the whole “don’t take things from strangers” mantra kicked in and derailed his thoughts. Or maybe it was too dark in the stairwell to see how bad off she really was?
That’s amazing perception for a 6-year-old, and you should be proud of yourself. But it’s a BIG mistake to assume that everyone can (or should) own the same high level of empathy and compassion that you do.
If your community is as tightly knit as you claim, then maybe you should go door to door and track down where the kid lives, and talk to him about what happened. The security guards probably know which kids live in the building.
Didn’t you read my above post? She told the kid she was not able to get up on her own, then asked him to help her, and that she’d give him a twonie for his efforts.
By the way, she was exhausted and having difficulty breathing, but was most certainly not delirious. I’d have called an ambulance if she was delirious.
How did she know he was twelve and not 9 or 10? Because it’s a tight-knit community and he’s quite a familiar face in the building. All the kids are familiar to the residents. That’s part of the whole “co-op” experience. Lots of “community events.”
Don’t take anything from strangers? Plausible, but then you tell a grown-up such as the uniformed security – that’s what the security guys are there for! And remember how I said that I myself was in that very stairwell? Well, trust me, the stairwell was brightly lit. There are emergency generators to keep the halls and stairwells well lit.
The security guard has talked to the kid’s parents. He did know exactly which kid he was – one of the group that had been eating freezy-pops outside.
Not that it’s important, but it’s my pseudo-FIL’s building, not mine, so I don’t know any of the kids there. And since I don’t live there, it’s not like I could have checked on the woman later, so in any case, I had to talk to security to let them know that someone had to check on her.
When I saw him (the security guard) on the way to brunch today, and he let me know that neighbours had checked in on the woman and she was now fine, and he let me know that he had a chat with the kid’s mom (who apparently had been home the whole time, but claims the kid hadn’t mentioned anything).
Also this attitude:
…Totally sucks.
It’s like saying “No, I didn’t call an ambulance when I saw the guy bleeding in the street. So? It’s not like I’m the one who stabbed him.” Perfect. I hope you teach your kids better than that.
Hmm. That’s not at all what you said:
Ok, it was clear TO YOU, and probably most rational adults, that she was in distress. Yet, the way you wrote it earlier, she downplayed the whole thing. She did not ASK for help, in fact all she did was offer the kid money to carry one of her bags.
Ok, now look at it from the kid’s perspective. He’s 12. Most 12-year-olds I’ve met are still pretty much in their own world, they haven’t learned the skills to recognize distress in others. Some do, but not all of them. He’s walking up the stairs. He’s likely pissed off that the elevators aren’t working, and probably wondering what the hell to do with his time since he can’t watch TV or play on the Internet. Maybe all he’s thinking about is whether or not the sodas in the fridge are still cold enough to drink. Who knows?
He sees the old lady. Maybe he’s slightly concerned for her, maybe he doesn’t take notice at all. Impossible to say. I’ll assume he did not speak to her, that she called out to him first. And here’s what she said, according to your posts: “I’m having a little trouble making it up the stairs. Can you carry this bag for me? I’ll give you two dollars.”
NOW…forget what I said about “don’t take money from strangers,” it makes no difference. Because, in the kid’s mind, the lady has not asked for help, she’s offered him a job. A Business Deal. He spares a second or two to consider how badly he needs two dollars, decides it’s not worth delaying whatever his mission is, and responds to her by saying, “No thanks.”
Frankly, I don’t see what it was that he did wrong, based on his own perspective and what you say the old lady told you about the encounter. And I’m more than a little pissed off at the bullshit American attitude that expects ALL children to think and act like adults. (Yes, I know you’re from Canada. Same thing.) If he were an adult or an older teen, or if the lady asked him directly for help, or to call security to help her, then yes, we’d both have good reason to be pissed off. But, that’s NOT what happened. And, he’s just a kid.
So, that’s it then. The kid’s been informed (I hope) that the lady really did need help. Hopefully, next time he’s in that situation, he’ll be a little more conscientious. And that’s all there is to it. No need to make him wear “sandpaper socks” and “diapers outside his clothes”. Well, maybe if he ignores her next time it happens. But not for this one. That’s crazy talk.
No, it’s not. Blood is BAD. Hot & sweaty is not necessarily bad. At least, from a 12 year old’s perspective. Hot & sweaty just means you’re tired, but you’ll recover. Yes, it’s different for old ladies. But, did he know that? Probably not.
Like I said, now that the security guard’s talked to his mom, hopefully he’s learned the difference. In any case, it’s NYFPA – Not Your Fucking Problem Anymore. So, forget about it.
While your charity towards the kid seems honourable, unless he was intellectually disabled, I refuse to believe that a 12 (or 10 or even an 8) year old cannot comprehend when an old lady is distressed. WHATEVER else was on his mind at the time is no bloody excuse for leaving someone in the lurch like that.
Ah, the old Not Your Fucking Problem retort. It’s attitudes like THAT that breed the kid above. Any wonder you’re defending him.
:rolleyes:
Ahem. I said, “Not your fucking problem ANYMORE.” There’s a difference. Because, the security guard has talked to the mom, and whatever problem regarding the kid that needed addressing, has been taken care of.
And frankly, you’re totally full of shit. The kid acted like a normal kid, or as normal as any distracted kid in the middle of a wide-scale blackout. Now here comes Mr. (Ms.?) Crayola-Eater, saying things like “You better hope I don’t find out who you are”, calling him a “little pea brain”, and saying “I will make absolutely sure that you are grounded until you’re old enough to vote.” Ok, which one of us is out of line here?? I’ll grant that E.C. is a little emotional over the situation, but…yeesh.
Bullshit.
And if it had been one of my kids, I WOULD have grounded them 'til they were old enough to vote.
I am going with the oblivious kid thing. It is absolutely normal. I was cleaning the kitchen this morning after yelling at my 10 year old for trashing it before i got up. I told her to get her cereal out of the livingroom. She brought it in to the kitchen and dumped it in the middle of the counter I was wiping. I said “Furliiiiikid!!”
she said “what did I do?” It is our job as parents and the adults around these creatures to civilize them. The job isn’t done by 12. So yah the kid should be punished and grounded and made to understand that he really could have hurt someone. Then move on. Perhaps if it was my kid her punishment would be to help this woman for a week with whatever she needs. He isn’t a monster and isn’t a hell spawn, and his generation is no more or less uncaring than mine’ if some of the guys I dated before I met Mr. Furli are any indication. Plus he has time to get a clue.
Actually, I think this is the best point raised so far. The kid said, “No thank you.” He didn’t just ignore her, or tell her to go screw, or anything else that would indicate he knew she was in trouble and didn’t care. He said, “No thank you,” like he’d been taught, and doubtless thought that was all that was required of him in the situation. Yes, obviously any adult should ahve helped in that situation: but kids aren’t adults, they’re adults-in-training. He screwed up in this case, and needs to taught how to recognize when people need help and what he should do to help them. But he’s only twelve: it’s not his fault he doesn’t have that knowledge yet.
I also wonder, Eats_Crayons, how much longer the woman was waiting in the stairwell after the kid took off but before you showed up. Maybe she wasn’t as obviously distressed when the kid went by.
KGS-- kindly don’t have any children, ok? We will all be better off.
That’s NOT normal behavior for any well-adjusted, properly raised child.
I tend to agree with those cutting the kid a bit of slack. Sure, he isn’t the most intuitive, sensitive, and medically aware kid in the world, but so very few are. There is just so much we don’t know about his situation. And the fact is that he didn’t put the woman in the situation. She knows she lives on the 8th floor. She knows what she can and cannot do. She knows there’s a guard down on the first floor watching kids eating freezy pops. Surely there were any number of other doors she might have knocked on for assistance. Perhaps it is different in the land of the twoonies, but here in the US we teach kids to think twice about adults making offers to children for money.
Yeah, ideally he would stop and help her out. He didn’t. He doesn’t win the merit badge, but he also is not deserving of the sheer vitriol the OP feels is warranted. Fuckstain? Little shit? Fuckwit? Fine. You get the badge, the cookie, and a pat on the head. You’re better than a 12 year old. Write your anecdote in to Reader’s Digest. Maybe they’ll put it in “That’s Outrageous!”
I’ve always depended on the kindness of 12 year-old strangers.
:rolleyes:
I don’t get it. Really, I don’t get how you can get a kid to learn compassion by punishing him. Fake, bitter courtesy, perhaps. But that’s not the same thing as compassion.
Maybe that’s fair debate for another thread. But…not this one. I’m outta here.
Eats_Crayons, all this stuff about uniformed security being everywhere - isn’t is possible that this was part of the reason the kid didn’t think the lady was in trouble?
She didn’t even say she was in trouble! She may very well have been downplaying her distress in order to keep her dignity. I have known many elderly people who will in fact actively HIDE things in order to make it seem like they aren’t in trouble. She may have been hiding more from the kid than from you.
Now, you and I have experience in such matters, and we have learned not to be fooled by such efforts. We will help, and at the same time try to minimize any embarassment.
But this was a 12 year old kid, find a lady who offered money for help in carrying a bag, but probably did not indicate that she was in real trouble. The kid knew that there were a bunch of uniformed security people that she could call. There is no reason to go ballistic on this kid. He didn’t mean to do anything wrong, and hopefully he learned a valuable lesson.
Incidentally, it would be nice if you could have empathy for the young and inexperienced as well as the elderly.
You know, all this business about the “twonie” is reminding me of a scene from Do the Right Thing. Ossie Davis wants a kid to go to the store for him. Okay, no problem. But then he asks, “What makes Sammy run?”. Kid has no clue, so he has to explain that they’re negotiating price. Then it turns out he wants the kid to run the errand for a nickel. In 1989. Forget it, pops.
I think this whole thing hinges on the offer of money. E_C, you seem to be operating on the principle of “Do it because it is right.” And that is how it should be. But…You didn’t give an age for the LOL, but I’m assuming 60-70 range. Which would make her part of that WWII generation. Which is always being thrown up to us as the most honorable people who ever graced the earth. But if that’s so, how did she become conditioned to think that you have to pay people to help you out?
And then there’s the story of this woman. She was stuck in an office elevator for 19 hours. Two separate times, she was able to make herself heard, and two different men - adults, not 12-year-olds, said they were going for help. They apparently didn’t.
In the story I read in my local paper, she was reported as saying that she would like to know what happened to the first two men. I would too.
I’m undecided.
On one hand, the kids response of “no thanks” instead of some obnoxious “screw you, lady” seems to point out that the kid was completely oblivious to the old lady’s distress. It just would be a completely out-of-place response in any other situation. Now, the kid definitely needs to get a little shock, which he’ll probably get from security/mum, and make him realise he walked straight past someone in pain. If he’s a good kid (from the “no thanks”, I’m inclined to think he might be) that’ll be enough to get him to pay more attention to others in future.
On the other hand, I can clearly recall how I was at the age of 12. There’s no way in the world I would’ve looked at it solely as a business deal. I would’ve helped the old lady, and refused the money, because I was raised to help the elderly. Then again, not all kids are raised the way I was.
Like I said, I’m undecided. Let’s find the kid and drag him onto the board so we can grill him and find out what he was thinking at the time 