I mean, “Back on the subject.” I started two sentences at once and didn’t delete completely. Sorry.
Listen fucktard, if a writing graduate student has trouble understanding your poorly worded insults, it’s your fault.
“Listen fucktard”
That’s lovely.
Well, if you can’t understand a simple sentence from someone who makes a tidy living as a writer, and who is paid to travel the world doing so, and who has had more than 500 articles published in mainstream print media, I suggest you change courses.
I’m sorry to hear that you make your living as a writer–one that specializes in obfuscation, apparently. In my professional writing program, I’ve learned that clarity is what you should aim for in your writing. With sentences like
I see that clear communication is not a priority for you. Again, I’m sorry. Good luck with that “writing” thing.
Belittling those to whose career you aspire will not get you far in this industry. And neither will the use of tired words like “obfuscation”.
What it means is that perhaps I live in an overly provincial world.
When some act of hate is committed here in my State, or my region, even if it is very “minor” (although threatening graffiti is certainly an act of hate, it is not on the order of killing three innocent persons), local ministers of all religions clamber for the opportunity to state how they condemn these acts, to state that anti-Semetism and anti-Muslim hatred will not be tolerated, and that any society worth a damn should act to prevent these things from happening again.
I can also routinely pick up my paper and see local ministers and priests speak out against terror in Ireland, Serbia and Croatia, even Basque terrorism in Spain. And, of course, other acts of hate here in the US as well.
You can hear the Pope pray for victims of terror from all sources. Hell, you can even hear him speak out on cloning too. When is the last time I ever heard a major Muslim leader denounce terrorism? Or any particular terrorist act? We have several local Muslim places of worship in my city - I have never once read, or seen a statement by any member of the clergy denouncing Muslim terrorism outside of some lukewarm condemnation after 9/11. But they do scramble to get on the TV to denounce the “atrocities” of anonymous phone calls left on their answering machines. Characterizing them as “direly life-threatening”.
Now, logic says that there are likely many reasons for my perception. One, is that Islam is not exactly a strong presence in my city, In fact, it is such a small presence, that it is likely that members and practicioners of Islam feel intimidated. This is terrible, but understandable, as hatred of Muslims has increased since the acts of 9/11.
What can I saw to that? Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
Another possibility is simply that statements and denouncements of terror, supporting peace and understanding between people, are simply “not news”, and therefore not reported. Another reason could be that, since Islam is said to be much less “centralized” than other religions, there really isn’t a good single-source or designated leader (as in the case of the Pope) to lead such an effort. Also, perhaps the leaders of that religion feel that direct communication with their membership is the best path - rather than making public statements. I admit, it’s been more than 10 years since I was in a mosque, so what would I know?
Or, in fairness, it could be that leaders of the religion support the acts. I don’t believe this, but I’m sure I will be accused again of being anti-Muslim for even bringing up the non-zero possibility of it.
But my perception is that there is not enough clear, direct, unambiguous condemnation of these acts against innocents being made by prominent Muslim leaders. This could be for any of the reasons above, but really - what is the net effect? The net effect is that I feel that the inaction and lack of general, widespread condemnation is not a good thing, and it does not act in one bit to even try to quench the fires of hatred and ignorance which drive people to commit these acts.
I am tired of the Silence. I am tired of the Silence of people who I know who are victims of crimes of hate but will not fight back, I am tired of the Silence of governments which ignore human rights violations because it meets with their political goals du jour, and I am tired of the Silence of people around the world - including Muslims - on the deaths of innocents.
TwistofFate would have you believe that I have an “agenda” - he may have tried to withdraw the words, but you can’t un-ring that bell, and in a public forum like this it’s now gone into the libelous arena. It’s what he thinks of me, and I imagine that he is still trying to pretend like that’s not what he meant; I really don’t know. This is even after he and I had some cordial mails on how we would not over-react or fly off the handle if we disagreed with what the other was saying - or would at least try to figure out if the words didn’t tell the whole story.
I guess I must have once again misunderstood. I’m certain that it must be my fault, since most things are.
But I love Muslims and Islam as much as I do Jews and Judaism, Christians and Christianity, Snake Handlers and Snakes, and …Atheists and what? Anyhow. Now that someone has libelously accused me of having an anti-Muslim agenda on a public message board, it really doesn’t matter anymore, does it? I now will have to justify everything I say and do here, or else the snide little slurs will come again.
I may not be of any religion, but that does not mean I disrespect them. Scotticher will back me up on this - would you doubt her word as well? Anahita can tell you how I defended her when she, a Muslim, was being falsely accused by three people here of anti-Semetism - or would she be lying as well?
It doesn’t matter anymore. This is now out of my hands.
In English?
Look, Rider, she asked for clarification, because you said something that didn’t make sense to her. You are the one who got nasty first, not her. And when she returned the favor, you attempt to take the high road? Too late.
Can we now get back on the subject, or has it been hijacked beyond redemption?
I got nasty first? Who called whom a “fucktard” ?
Clarity’s a good word, though–oh, but wait. I bet you think that’s “tired,” too. Honestly, your writing attempts to be elegant, but just comes off as clunky. Sorry in advance for using words like “elegant” and “clunky”–I’m sure you’ll deem them tired, as well.
And thanks for telling me that I won’t get far in the “industry.” I’ll be sure to keep that in mind.
Okay, sorry–hijack over. Feel free to get the last “untired” word in, Rider. It’ll make you feel sooo much better, won’t it?
That was gonna be my question too. I mean, I could say “My French confuses you? Dude, I’ve written for newspapers. I’ve been on television, on the radio, all that. If you’re confused, it’s your deal.”
Except none of that had anything whatsoever to do with French.
So Rider, let’s see some of these articles you’ve written;)
If I show you one of my articles, I compromise my anonymity, and I’d rather not do that. I have nothing to prove and did not instigate this line of discussion.
More than 500? Cecil - is that you?
Well, here’s an old saying I picked up in my World travels:
Don’t let your mouth write checks that your butt can’t cash.
You can claim to be Batman too, if it makes you feel better about yourself. Did you know that you can make a real kewl cape out of an old black velvet curtain?
So then you’re just going to support your statement that you’re a professional writer with … what, your reputation here?
And as for you having nothing to prove, that’s a nice line of bullshit. You said “Well, if you can’t understand a simple sentence from someone who makes a tidy living as a writer, and who is paid to travel the world doing so, and who has had more than 500 articles published in mainstream print media, I suggest you change courses.”. Now you’ve been called on to prove it and while you weren’t the one who brought up your less-than-stellar writing abilities, you certainly were the first person to bring up your writing ability as worthy of renumeration.
Besides, if you were so worried about your anonymity you’d use a pseudonym.
“you certainly were the first person to bring up your writing ability as worthy of renumeration.”
It’s remuneration.
I only said it to make a point to the girl who used her student credentials as a breast-beating device. I wish i hadn’t now. It’s unbelievable how much posturing goes on here for a supposedly intellectual message board.
So, anyway, no connections have yet been established linking Al Qaeda to the monster who shot those people in Yemen.
Will it make any difference if there is a connection?
Yes, I think I’ve read some of your writing on the menus of Chinese restaurants the world over.
Putz.
I guess it makes a difference as to the response. If it is a lone madman or lone person with a grief, then what can you do, really, except to spread the word that committing these acts on innocents is wrong, and to try to understand why people who plan or commit these acts have an axe to grind in the first place.
Attacking a hospital makes no sense. It’s something which offends all. I cannot imagine a sane person, and/or a person with an agenda, attacking a target like this. It is something which almost everyone would, and should, condemn.
If it’s Al Qaeda linked, then I imagine it points to possibilities of a cell or organization within the country, and then if such a thing exists, it needs to be hunted down and destroyed.
Anthracite
I appreciate the patiently composed reply.
I think all the reasons you mentioned for the apparent lack of coverage of condemnations are valid. But, I also think there is not that much press for outraged Muslims facing so-called death threats. It sure doesn’t look that skewed to me.
Yes, the religion is highly decentralized raising the issue why someone in your community should seek to publicly condemn every monstrous act by a Muslim in various parts of the world, which happen for a myriad reasons including ethnic and political conflict. Such expectations probably force the local Muslim community to forever be on the defensive. Also, did local reporters bother meeting with Muslim leaders to take their statements? Even if local Muslim leaders spoke against it in a meeting convened in a mosque, would that be covered and published? There are too many variables. What are the advantages of such actions anyway? You seem to think it will influence reality in, say Yemen.
Aside all that, the worldwide condemnations after an attack on the scale of 9/11 were strong, not lukewarm. Off the top of my head, after terrorist attacks in India, Indian Muslim leaders condemned it unequivocally. Links someone provided in SDMB are at:
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=99770
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=6&id=100119
After a recent fatwa related to the beauty pageant, Nigerian Muslim leaders vehemently condemned it. You can obtain the links if you search this website.
There is more… The truth is out there, probably not in a local gazette. Try a reputed publication in the relevant country or city. Or try an international news organization like BBC.
In any case, the insinuation (based on a perceived lack of condemnation from an unidentifiable amorphous Muslim leadership for various acts of terror around the world) that there is worldwide support from mainstream Muslims for a fanatical group like Al-Qaeda (which operates under-ground) or for other acts of terror perpetrated by Muslims is preposterous. I sure hope you recognize that.
FWIW, I do not think you have any “agenda” but I do sense a frustration against the Islamic faith and especially its (amorphous) leadership which is IMHO based on an erroneous perception.
Lastly, I am not a Muslim, so may be you can pose these fears and questions in Martin’s thread (Ask a Muslim).
Anthracite,
I do not think you arte anti-muslim. ther are very few people I would label as hateful, and you are not one of them.
I just take issue with your demad of Muslim leaders to come out and condemn an act when very few clerics in other religions condem acts similar to it in other religions do.
Yes, as I have said, myself and yourself will never agree with certain axioms.
I don’t apreciate how you label my retractions. I tried to clarify my words but you persist in trying to make me look like the bad guy.
I really amn’t in the mood to argue with you right now (*see MPSIMS) but suffice t5o day Myself and yourself will never agree on this topic.
I wish a great new year to yourself and Fierra, and may the first new year you spend together set the benchmark for the rest of your lives together.
I have nothing more to add to this thread, as I cannot bring myself to argue.