Yes. The expression “Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” exists for a reason.
Only if the fascist was the one who scratched them.
Yes, this.
I didn’t get it at first either, because yes, it’s a two-party system, and for people like me there are many issues that influence my vote, and things I can swallow for the greater good.
But if you’re Palestinian, and you know people, family members who have died in this “war”. And you’ve watched as the US has supplied weapons and aid to Israel, and continued to block any attempt at UN resolutions or other sanctions.
And you saw how in this election campaign, anyone that even wanted to talk about Gaza was hushed; it was completely off the table…
Then I’m going to think, screw those guys. No, I’m not going to vote for Trump, but I’m not voting Harris either. It’s a protest vote or sitting it out.
Because the two main options would appear to me like a choice between Hitler and Pol Pot and people trying to tell me that Hitler’s kill rate is slightly slower.
Nope. Twice the USA supported and pushed two UN Ceasefire plans- in both cases Hamas rejected them.
What? From my understanding both the Egyptian-Qatari Mediated Ceasefire and UN Resolution 2735 were rejected by Israel, not Hamas. Moreover the US just vetoed another UN ceasefire resolution, about a week ago.
United Nations Security Council Resolution 2735 - Wikipedia.
United Nations Security Council Resolution 2735 , adopted on 10 June 2024, calls on Hamas to accept a proposed hostage and ceasefire agreement in the ongoing Israel–Hamas war. The resolution, presented by the United States, details the three-phase proposal and notes Israel’s acceptance thereof. The implementation of the described agreement would result in the release of all hostages held by Hamas, establish a permanent ceasefire in the Gaza Strip and advance a multi-year reconstruction plan.
There were several resolutions, that were one sided, vetoed by the US or Rejected by Israel.
But at least two supported by the USA, rejected by Hamas.
Hamas has rejected the latest ceasefire proposal, saying it ignored key demands and accused the Israeli prime minister of setting new conditions that it could not accept.
Hamas has always opposed proposals which allowed a continuing Israeli presence inside Gaza among other provisions it says are biased towards Israel.
Because the hard left thinks everyone not 100% in agreement with their own little faction is knowingly evil and must be destroyed. Liberals, other leftists, doesn’t matter; if you don’t agree with them it means you are rejecting the obvious objective truth and are an enemy of humanity.
It’s a great excuse for mass slaughter but not much else.
I don’t see it as a choice because, I think, one would inevitably follow the other, that old swinging pendulum thing.
…sounds like a good reason to reject that particular deal.
So Hamas wanted an actual ceasefire. Not like the fake ceasefire Israel declared four days ago with Hezbollah, which they Israel breached over 100 times which Biden and his administration have ignored.
There was literally a UN ceasefire resolution on November 10th that included a demand for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages, that the United States vetoed.
And Hamas agreed to Biden’s deal.
It was the new conditions, as your cite says, that was the problem.
To bring it back to this thread: as Abby Martin argues in the original video, “anybody should have seen this coming.” She argues that it became increasingly difficult for the average voter to uncouple the unconditional support of this war to the tune of billions of dollars with the economic conditions and hardship they’ve been suffering.
The Democrat establishment that set the direction and tone of this campaign are in an absolutely privileged position. When fascism comes to America, it isn’t going to affect them at all. It doesn’t really matter to them that they lost to Trump. The money is still going to roll in. And we can see that today: unconditional support for Israel and their “war.” Tougher immigration policy. Funding the police. Blaming everybody else: Stein, woke, “moving to far to the left”, and not accepting they played any part in the loss at all.
I think if we look at the Democrat establishment, (not the Democrat voter) then “would Democrats rather have fascism than Sanders populism” is absolutely correct. Its why they ran a conservative campaign targeting the Republican voter “on the fence”. They felt they didn’t need the votes from the left: they already had it in the bag, that they didn’t need to earn their vote.
Say what? We all know how fascists deal with political enemies. They’ll all be dead.
…that isn’t how it will work.
The Democrats will settle into their role as “permanent opposition”. They will be part of the system, taking place in “sham” elections to continue the pretence of democracy whilst raking in millions. They will play their part.
The smug Democrat political consultant that lives in a million dollar home is not going to “be killed.” They will pivot accordingly.
The people that will be in danger under the new administration are very much not the Democrat establishment.
Why? The Democrats are evil incarnate to the right, you seem to be confusing fascism with mere political corruption. There won’t be any “permanent opposition” under fascism, any opposition will be killed out of hand. There won’t be any rich backers calling the shots, they’ll obey orders or be killed and their money confiscated. Money doesn’t matter under fascism, only brute force.
“Pivoting” won’t save them, anyone who ever supported the Democrats for any reason will be permanently on the list of political enemies to be crushed.
…because things aren’t that black and white. And while looking to history can be a guide, what we will see over the next few years is going to be an entirely new thing.
Autocracy has been creeping up on you so slowly that most haven’t even noticed that it is happening. For many people under Trump, things aren’t going to change much at all.
MAGA don’t “hate the Democrats” as in they will purge the country of anyone that voted for them. They hate “the woke.” They value white supremacy. And the Democrat establishment doesn’t threaten that. I’m talking about the people in power, not the people that voted for them. If the Democrat establishment fall in line, and they are giving every indication that this is what they are going to do, then they won’t be an obstacle.
This isn’t how it will happen. Because they won’t need too. This is the 21st century. Its going to be fascism for the tiktok generation. There probably will be purges. But they will happen in the background. Immigrants in concentration camps. Black people in prison. We probably won’t even notice.
The rich backers are calling the shots. How on earth do you think we ended up where we are right now? They’ve bought all of the media and the social media. They’ve funded the think tanks that write the policy and deliver the daily talking points. This is very much a takeover by the billionaire class. Elon Musk is even sitting pretty in a plum position to dismantle the administrative state.
Money is very much the point. Again: this isn’t old school fascism. It probably needs a new word. But for decades we’ve seen a transfer of wealth to a statistical handful of people. This new era will probably have more in common with the feudal era than what you regard as “fascism.”
I don’t think this is going to happen.
Not without a fight anyway.
Because they are stupid, and don’t realize they are handing away all their power. They have power now; but under fascism, they won’t. How much power does a rich man have when he and his family have been killed by the dictator’s thugs? Just ask the various oligarchs in Russia who have “fallen out of windows”.
…they are calling the shots. They’ve got all of the power.
Then perhaps fascism isn’t the right word to be using here.
The rich people are the “dictators.” They will be the new “feudal lords.” As I said: we are heading towards a new type of feudalism. The criminalization of homelessness. Prison labour. The age people are allowed to work. The gig economy. It’s all set up to put people into servitude.That’s the new model. To extract as much wealth as they can along with a healthy dose of white supremacy and religious fundamentalism. It isn’t about “killing Democrats.”
And yet there are no shortage of oligarchs. We are much more likely to see politicians “fall out of windows” than we are billionaires. And reporters. And activists. And people that will make trouble.
I think the billionaires are going to be just fine.
No they won’t, they’ll be irrelevant. At best pinatas for the fascists to beat money out of when they want some. Money stops giving people power when the people who have actual power can just put a gun to their head and tell them to do what they are told. What matters under fascism is force, and only force.
…nah. As I said: for the most part, they will be the new feudal lords. A few of them will be the overseers. The people in government will be the “puppets”. Who do you think are actually drafting the policy? Who put together Project 2025? Its the think-tanks. Corporations. The billionaire class. Think Kompromat. All that private information, sucked up by AI companies and Musk and Thiel and Zuckerberg. They hold the balance of power.
Again: it isn’t history or what happened in Russia you should be looking too. America is exceptional. They are doing their own thing. There will no doubt be doing some very bad things. But much of it will be very bad things that have been practically normalised now. You already lock up more people per capita than anywhere else in the world. People are already being targeted and persecuted for their political opinions. You are the boiling frog.
Under Biden, they’ve damaged the integrity of international law and de-legitimised the United Nations as an institution. Under Trump they will destroy it. You will see a split between the “global south” and west. And the thing is, you probably won’t even notice. The cops killed more people in 2023 than ever before and when they kill a record amount of people in 2025 it won’t even raise an eyebrow.
What will matter here is not “force.” Its following the idealogy of people like Bannon. They will undermine and destroy the international “rules based order” opening the door for a new wave of colonialism. They will undermine and destroy the administrative and federal state, opening the doors for individual states to become full-on individual dictatorships.
They aren’t going to go after the billionaire class. They will go after the activists and the teachers and the independent reporters and Black and brown people and anyone that questions authority. And they will do it in a way that, if you are anything like me who is a bit of a coward, will probably pretend isn’t happening. I’ll just keep going about my business.
Until they hand power over to the fanatics, then they won’t have any. Think tanks will say what they are told or be shot. CEOs will do what they are told or be shot. Musk and Thiel and Zuckerberg will do what they are told or be shot. Billionaires will do what they are told or be shot.
We’re headed for Hitler 2.0 with nukes, not a relatively mild cyberpunk dystopia which seems to be what you are describing. It won’t be about money, it’ll be about killing. It’ll be about billions of people dead in a racial, religious and political crusade of purification.
…who are you imagining is doing the shooting?
Oh, on the international front yes, we will see an expansion of the Gaza doctrine, I’m sure.
But they won’t be going after the Thiel’s or the Musks.
And yet in this thread, it’s Stein who is the fascist.
Its getting harder to distinguish what is hyperbole and what isn’t. I fully acknowledge that a nuclear catastrophe is on the cards. But those billionaires will be safe in their bunkers with their own private armies, and I don’t think you have to worry about them at all.