I’m just amazed at the number of people who have posted “I invited you to my party - I don’t care if the food makes you sick.” or something to that effect. I thought the entire point of having a party was pleasing your guests with the food, company and companionship - I didn’t realize it was to make yourself look like you were doing everyone a favor.
I’m glad that the people I entertain, and who entertain me in turn, are much more sensitive.
Nonrennet cheese is vegetarian, not vegan, and that’s one of the reasons why I’d aks her to bring something. It’s like monstro said, it’s hard to know what the rules are and what rules she follows. I don’t cook for my one Orthodox friend, either.
Now, if I had a friend with special needs, we’d discuss it and come to an understanding, we’d work something out so all were happy and all were fed. But that also depends on how many I was cooking for, of course, as to how much trouble you are going to go through for one of 8, for example.
I believe that the host/hostess assumes the responsibility of making every single guest comfortable. Vegan dishes are not at all difficult or expensive to prepare, and in the past, I’ve found it much simpler to prepare a few vegan dishes than to try to figure out who’s ovo/lacto/pesco vegetarian. If I knew anyone who kept kosher, I’d just ask whatever stupid questions I might have, but I would be certain to have kosher foods and plates and utensils and such, in that circumstance.
That just seems like common courtesy and respect, to me. I frequently cater to diabetic needs when I entertain, so why would any other dietary preference be any different? I don’t question whether it’s for religious, ethical or medical reasons, and I think it’s rude for a host to demand that a guest bring their own food.
Well, the SO told me he wants me to come, so I’ll go. I’m going to hang out with my friend until dinners over, then go there. He told me that his family just doesn’t get it, they think that it would be some huge undertaking to prepare anything I could eat, and that he thought that way too when we first started going out. I can kind of see that since his mother, two years later, still puts forth way too much effort to prepare stuff for me when I go to her house for dinner. She goes so far out of her way I feel bad and now I realize she thinks she has to. I guess his sister does, too.
Still not a big fan of hers, though.
Speaking to** Lezlers**, "I think the sister is being rude, but this could be tempered by
Most of the food I can prepare decently would not be at all suitable for a Vegan - I add animal products of one sort or another to pretty much everything, from butter in the spuds, to bacon in the salad.
To the kosher people, although I respect your choice, I just don’t understand this whole “kosher kitchen” thing.
I used to work with Muslims, I would NEVER invite them to my house purely because I would not be able to be a good host - everything you go near in our place has had pork in it etc etc and would be an issue for them. Although it may seem self centered this did bug me - not asking them to eat pork, not a problem, but not being able to invite them to a good steak dinner at my house as my frypan has had pork in it I feel is contrary to good work relationships, divisive and unneccessarily restrictive.
After a while it did also get tiring always having to eat at a “Halal” restaurant. Which we always did out of respect for his needs, but the fact of the matter is, that this restricted our choices, and to my taste buds, (in general) halal food simply wasn’t as nice.
Again I would never dream of asking him to eat pork, but couldn’t we go to a restaurant and he simply chooses the “non pork” dishes? Why should it matter that maybe before it cooked the beef, the pan had pork in it? (assuming it had been washed)
BTW - I do fully respect his choices, and would not deliberatley go against them, but that does not mean they don’t bug me.
Procrastinating…
Lezlers, if I were you I’d skip the party (send a very graciously worded note back to your BF’s sis saying you won’t be there because your close friend is moving, so you already have other plans, so sorry.) But also let it be known to everyone–the sister, your BF, your BF’s mom–that you’re happy to come to future family events.
And definitely go to the next family thing, no matter whose house it’s at, no matter how impolitely the invite is worded, and no matter what the menu’s like. This way, the “Lezlers’ weird diet doesn’t fit in with our family” thing doesn’t become a permanent issue.
And I’m with a lot of people in this thread who think that your BF’s sister was rude, rude, rude. And I think that, if you invite a guest, you should serve at least something that everyone visiting you can eat. How could you invite someone to your house and watch them stare at the food? I couldn’t imagine doing something like that to anyone I had at my place for dinner–even if I didn’t like them at all and didn’t really want them there.
What, really, is the problem your BF’s sister has with you? And how do you plan to address this, since you’re probably going to have to deal with her on and off for a really long time? Usually petty arguments or insults over things like menus, where to go for the holidays, etc. are only surface signs of much bigger conflicts.
As someone who was raised in a kosher house (well, kind of kosher, anyway–we had one set of non-glass dishes and only one set of silverware), I can’t help but be a little annoyed at this attitude.
Believe me–your Muslim friends didn’t pick this diet because it made life difficult for them. My parents didn’t pick kashrut for those reasons, either. People who follow religious or cultural dietary rules do so because they feel that these rules are important for their own sake. The belief that a particular set of dietary rules is important can be pretty deeply ingrained; I’ve seen observant Muslims who’ve eaten pork by mistake be so revolted that they heaved.
Imagine that you went to live in a country where, say, fried maggots were considered normal fare. How would you feel about being asked to eat in a kitchen that had those maggots in it? Where those maggots had touched everything, and where you just know that there’s no way on Earth to truly remove every trace of fly guts from plastic utensils, wooden spoons, etc?
Every culture–including the cultures of everyone on the SDMB–has its food rules and taboos. Those rules are often pretty deeply internalized, and violating them can make people feel pretty sick.
I don’t think there are any two people on the planet who truly have everything in common. Weren’t there other things you could do with your friends?
Because a pan that’s had pig flesh in it is, to them, not appropriate for cooking food in. Or, at least, the pan’s not appropriate for cooking until it’s been cleaned in a way they recognize as having been made acceptable for contact with food. (I know nothing about making a kitchen halal. I assume there’s a way to halal-ize pans, utensils, cooking surfaces, etc. )
You’re focusing on the wrong thing, lezlers. The issue isn’t your vegetarianism; the issue is that your SiL is a bitch.
“Believe me–your Muslim friends didn’t pick this diet because it made life difficult for them.”
Actually this is my whole point Scribble, I do want to respect their needs, and I do understand that its not a “by choice” thing.
However, I have eaten rat, frog, pig intestines and snake - all foods that are “revolting” to my culture. I rationlised the tasting by the looking at the WHY couldn’t I eat such things, and couldn’t find a RATIONAL reason - hence why not eat?
And for Halal / Kosher, if we accept that there is some inherent problem with pork, providing the pan has no measurable / discernable trace of pork - why SHOULD (I know it does) matter what has been cooked in it in the past?
I have cooked food in pots that have held some pretty disgusting stuff in the past, with no ill effects.
And again, I know they don’t do it out of spite, but I do feel bad that I can’t invite people over for dinner when I am willing to cater to their diet purely because of what I have cooked in the past.
As to “finding something everybody likes” - its not a problem, there are many Halal options. However their diet does reduce the number of options. And enjoying food was pretty much the one thing that everybody in the office had in common. The nearest comparison I could come up with would be “when buying a car you can only select an American brand” - would you still be able to find something you liked that suited your needs? - More than likely, but would you also be denying yourself a whole range of options that may be better, nicer, cheaper, and closer matches to you needs?
I can understand this when it is based on a demonstrable belief (eg: Germans don’t allow unions) but when it is not a reason based in logic I have trouble understanding it.
FWIW - I wouldn’t have a problem with eating dog, or a pet, I have no religion and although I may sound “bigoted”. I would never presume to IMPOSE my beliefs on others…in actual fact I have a Muslim, live in maid whom we ensure is ALWAYS catered to in terms of “no pork, no lard” (although we don’t have the time or resources to ensure she has a full range of Halal options)
Lezlers , I think the sister’s being way too rude and that was a very inconsiderate email. Personally I’d be inclined to tell her to stuff her invite!
I’m a vegetarian, my SO isn’t and we have no problem with it in relationship terms. We cook our own stuff and although we’ll go to the supermarket together, we shop separately. He’s just a bit funny that way.
The only time we cook for each other is when we’re making curries - it’s easy enough to make the base ‘sauce’ and add stuff to it. If he’s cooking it, he makes the base and I have to deal with the veg that I want to put in it. If I cook it, he has to sort out the meat to go in his curry. Works out fine in the end!
Visiting his family was a bit difficult at first, his mother was mortified when she realised I wasn’t a meat-eater…then she found out that I quite liked macaroni cheese…and that’s what she cooks for me every time I see her! I have in the past offered to take my own ready-made meals when we visit simply because I know what I like and I don’t want to put her to any bother. Recently though, she’s invested in a veggie cookbook and has found several things she likes in there. Result!
As far as entertaining goes, I will have friends over for dinner but they know they won’t get any meat-based meals unless blokie’s cooking them. If I’m doing the catering then they’ll get veggie food but it doesn’t pose a problem for them, they seem to like the adventure. I’ve not really dabbled in vegan recipes because none of my friends is vegan, although I did bake a cake for someone who told me he wished to share it with a vegan friend so I had to trawl around a bit for the right ingredients so that she could eat it. It wasn’t that difficult to find suitable replacements for the dairy produce etc, and I was quite pleased with the way it turned out.
looking busy–Every culture has two things it regulates pretty strictly. One of those is sex. The other is food.
I can almost guarantee you that you have food taboos. You don’t realize you have food taboos because you haven’t been in a situation where they’ve been challenged yet. Your experiences eating toad and other things you usually wouldn’t encounter haven’t challenged those taboos that you’ve internalized, or your reaction to having to eat those things would be very different.
I didn’t realize I had food taboos as an adult (I’m not observant about the laws of kashrut, and haven’t been since I was in college) until I was in a situation where I was forced to encounter situations that were, for me, taboo. And that’s coming from someone who’s eaten various insect and guinea pig dishes without qualms.
I don’t want to continue this discussion in this thread, since we’re hijacking the discussion. If you’d like to start a new thread, though, maybe we can get a good discussion going here on the SDMB.
A really good book on food taboos is Much Depends Upon Dinner, by Margaret Visser. By the time you’re done with it, you’ll probably have at least some idea of what some of your food taboos might be.
I’ve also heard good things about Marvin Harris’s books, though I haven’t read any of them myself.
The Visser book I wanted to recommend was The Rituals of Dinner, not Much Depends Upon Dinner.
My goof.
Oh, and lezlers–Best of luck to you. And I agree with what Skald said a few posts back.
This tells me it’s time for you to step in with simple, widely acceptable, vegan recipes. Things where you can be satisfied if one or two appear in a meal. No fancy vegan ingredients, nothing with a dozen steps, just simple fare that lots of people will enjoy.
Maybe make a big pan of something everyone can eat for this party, show that vegan doesn’t have to be soy burgers and “cheese” on a spelt roll with ketchup and nayonnaise. If lots of people take a spoon of the vegan dish to go with the stroganoff, that’ll stoke the fires of conversation regarding vegan cooking.
This is SO much better than my idea of replying to the email that you are sorry you cannot attend, but the smell of cow would make you ill, which is a shame because you love the smell of Beef Stroganoff. 
Sister is a Bitch alright. She’s just lucky Lezlers doesn’t have access to superglue and a dislike of all her lock cylanders.
“Gee, the kids around here don’t seem to like you, Sis. You been squirting them with the hose or something…!?” 
Sharing food and providing food are important social rituals, and to be the one athte table that doesn’t get fed can make one feel excluded, above and beyond hunger issues. If you are eating a family meal, it stings not to have one thing on the table you can eat. And THAT is how I would explain it to your in-laws–not directly to the sister, but indirectly through the the SO or someone–something like “I love to cook and am happy to bring a big dish, but when there isn’t one shared thing I can eat on the table–like a bowl of vegetables or fruit–it makes me worry I’m not really welcome. I know it’s silly, it’s just a knee-jerk reaction on part. It’s also why I like to bring food–sharing food back and forth is what says family to me. But there only needs to be ONE thing–it’s really symbolic. I’m more than happy to just eat that, or to bring other dishes to share.”
Now, with friends I wouldn’t bother with this, but these people are moving towards becoming family, and I think that’s a reasonable way to feel about family. But I’d keep the focus on you not wanting to feel excluded and on the symbolism, not on the not wanting to be hungry. I think both the mom and the sister are confused about that, and so are overreacting in opposite ways.
The thing that’s hard to understand about all this is that the sister is having a special party and then moaning about having to make something special. Isn’t the entire event special? It’s not as though she’s feeding them leftovers and questionable cottage cheese – or whatever happens to be in the fridge. She ALREADY is taking time to create special dishes for a special event. She already is planning. Why is it such a leap to include a dish that makes her brother’s dearest welcome?
Personally, it would make me very happy to prepare something special for someone who had specific wants or needs – and to have that person thrilled by my effort (and hopefully, well-prepared dish!). The whole idea of throwing a dinner party is to please people, to make them comfortable and have a good time. Maybe not everyone feels this way when they throw a party. Maybe forces are at work that I know nothing about.
But last year I held Thanksgiving at my house, even though I had a baby who was then just over a year old. It was a lot of work. But I love to cook and have people over, and frankly I’m not sick of holiday cooking. Everyone else eligible to have the holiday was either grandmother-age, or else a sister who has the biggest house and always gets stuck having the family gatherings (when they’re in her state. I’m three states away). So I had the meal (and my mom brought several of the side dishes to help me out), and was exhausted … but happy.
(highjack to Alice in Wonderland – I had to laugh at you saying “geeze Louise.” I say it all the time. So much so, that when I suggested to my daughter when she was 2 that she name her dollie Jean Louise [Scout from To Kill a Mockingbird’s real name], it didn’t take long for her to start calling her Geeze Louise instead! )
That’s totally it Manda Jo. I’m not going to continue to make a big deal out of it right now, because I overreacted yesterday to the point where I feel a bit silly, today. I don’t think there were any sinister intentions on sister’s part, just general cluelessness and thoughtlessness. She is a bit self absorbed, after all. One of the reasons I don’t care much for her.
Like I said before, I’m so used to people being familiar with my diet and making some effort to accomodate me (we went to his friend’s house for dinner a few months back and his friend made the main dish vegan, it was delicious!) that it was kind of a shock that after knowing me for two years, someone still won’t even make the effort to learn about what kind of foods I eat or what they could possibly make at a dinner party that I’d be coming to. Like you said, it makes me feel very excluded, like they don’t care about making me feel welcome or like part of the family.
I’m not sure about the whole giving them recipies thing. His mom would be fine, she loves cooking and has turned into a better vegan chef than me, actually. However, she has asked for recipes in the past and I’ve gladly given them to her. I would feel a little uncomforatable giving sister recipies because she has never asked for them. To me, it would look like “hey, the next time I’m over I expect you to cook for me you lazy cow.”
When it comes to politeness, I’m at the other end of the spectrum from sis. I’m so concerned with being impolite, I tend to become a little paranoid.
Satirizing this sort of thing, there’s an Onion graphic showing someone using tongs to lay a piece of meat on top of a hambuger patty, captioned “Meat – America’s favorite condiment!”
Sailboat
People who imagine it would be complex to cook for vegans are just not thinking the situation through. It only seems complex because it’s different, and because our food system and labeling laws make it a bit tricky to screen out animal products.
If the majority standard were vegan, imagine how hard it would be to find an animal, kill it, drain its blood, clean the carcass, and then prepare the meat in a sanitaruy way and well-cooked to avoid all those diseases! What a pain it would be to cook for meat eaters!
Sailboat
I’m on the wagon that says she’s being rude. Dealing with Vegetarians is a PITA because I have so few recipes that I think are host-worthy. I couldn’t just throw a salad at you and feel comfortable (now I do have an ass kicking Greek Salad recipe). As a good host it means spending extra time learning something new to serve to one guest. And while you’re not shoving your “religion” up her nose there is a defacto sense that you are better than she is. She has to compromise her way of life to suit you. If the situation were reversed you’d have to compromise your lifestyle to serve her a dish with meat in it.