Why is this being glossed over by everyone? This is in my mind an extremely significant development and quite possibly a real tell. With one investigator-type dead and a second claimed (but not confirmed) and a third person who could potentially have more information going on than they should, it seems prudent to test one of the latter two. I’m not sure if I’m onboard with Zeriel just yet but I’d really like to hear MHaye talk more about this.
testerize MHaye
Regarding Daphne’s point about desynching lynch and testing, I think it’s probably prudent at this point. I don’t think we’re getting people to talk enough to feasibly get the lynch vote decided early - what ends up happening is people just don’t post during the last half of the day. I’ve been just as guilty, at least at the end of last week.
On the bright side, I am happy to report that I am now completely moved and the old place has been cleaned, repaired, and signed off on by the landlord, so I should have a bit more time to play!
Actually, I tend to find this the opposite of scummy. It’s not to say that townspeople can’t panic when exposed to a vote, but townspeople are the ones that can actually benefit from their own deaths. Scum being brought to light is bad for several reasons; not only are they losing a scum player, but the scum player’s posts can then be analyzed and studied. I always think the game gets a lot easier once the town has one successful scum kill.
I was concerned about this from FS but I have seen scum feign this position - what are they going to do, after all, at this point? This game has been very slow to vote and has not seen a substantial shift in opinion so far, so a lack of real concern about being lynched is prudent at this point from both sides.
Well, I went with my gut on that one. As you said, FS wasn’t posting much of substance and I wanted to articulate that in my post. It is sometimes difficult to articulate substantive lurking in quotes. I still maintain that pinpointing players who are substantively lurking is a good strategy failing a suspected tell or other information and is a wise enough choice for the early game. This particular kill didn’t work out so well, true, but I’ll be curious to find out where the chips fall in the end.
Quick non-substantive, absence-explaining post: this week is my “spring” “break,” both terms such as they are, and I had a quick jaunt to visit some family. Now I’m back to let you know I can really shake’em down.
I want to get that out there right away because I do not think that a long absence from the game is really acceptable behavior at this point, especially as behind the 8 ball as we are. So, for those of you who may have been inclined to question my drop off in posting, here I am, and I plan to continue participating (and by “those of you” I mean you, Daphne, you cheeky thing). So, I herewith officially object to my classification as low-volume, and I’ll be back in a moment once I’ve read up to date more fully.
Daphne, if I haven’t said enough on any particular subject, by all means, make with the querying. Tell me what’s suspicious and I’ll do my best to answer them.
Heya Jimmy, glad to see you back. Look forward to your becoming a non-low-volume poster! I agree that we are seriously behind the 8-ball. My problem right now is that everyone I’ve found suspicious (other than Telcontar) keeps convincing me by their response to being suspected that I’m wrong. I think I need to re-calibrate. I think fluid is right that re-reads are much more helpful once an actual scum is killed, but I’m not sure what else I can do at this point.
I’m really concerned that only half of the players have test-voted with the deadline tomorrow. Telcontar is right, four votes should not be enough to decide the outcome!
MHaye’s apparent slip does look bad. I’d like to hear more from him. His explanation post was not very reassuring.
And not to be a broken record, but it is not pro-town not to post and not to vote.
Telcontar: First on my list because you got on the list first. My oldest and most dangerous foe, according to the danger scale that I just made up right now. In addition to the just plain old lousy strategy that has been discussed by others, first drew my suspicion because of what I perceived as repeated attacks on Daphne for illogical reasons with no apparent grounds in a real pro-Town approach. This was all based on, from what I can tell, a weird feeling that Daphne had been getting too much attention, and has apparently been abandoned. Telcontar, rather than really defending his position, has been content to shift the conversation slightly to other topics or to just not really respond to posts aimed at him. I think it’s strange behavior to not respond to accusations, and it seems reasonable enough to me that you would find it a good approach to take if you weren’t in any immediate danger and wanted to keep a low profile. In fact, I think that exactly that approach is what’s going on here, and I think it’s been working up to now. I’m late to the party on this Day, but I’ve been suspicious of Telcontar the whole time – I got here first, damn it!
Suspicion rating: 8 out of 10 yellow eyes
Zeriel – I don’t like your role claim, as I mentioned earlier. Your volunteering to be tested as a power role could have been a lousy attempt at manipulating the testerizer analysis. So, I’m suspicious of your claim that you’re a town alignment investigator, you know that there’s another one of those and they should investigate you, and then what happens? A town alignment investigator dies! It’s spectacularly bad luck, at the least. At the worst it’s a really obvious blow to the town that worked well. Somewhere in the middle is… well, I’m suspicious.
Suspicion score: 6 out of 10 early mornings naked in the woods
MHaye – Your first post was about how Telcontar had claimed an alignment, and oh which one was it, again? When pressed you said:
So what’s your next move? You claim that somebody else has claimed an alignment they haven’t claimed. Well, now, that’s a big deal. Without an adequate explanation of this - more adequate than you were “saving time,” I have to assume that you’re fishing for information you ought’n’t be fishing for. Other than that, not much to go by for you.
Suspicion score: 8 out of 10 inexplicable disappearances
Seeker – this one’s interesting. I’ve had the sense that you were acting wolfishly because you were, like Telcontar, going after Daphne and others without much substantiation. I think you’ve also been reacting violently and aggressively, and, well, sort of like a jerk for no reason, and I’m not sure what the motivation is there. This is a general behavior suspicion rather than anything I can put my finger on, and that worries me - I don’t want to admit it but I’m afraid I’ve been influenced by the fact that other posters seem to be put off by Seeker. All in all, though, I don’t think a suspicion about general unreasonableness is as good a foundation as something more concrete.
Suspicion score: 5 out of 10 hairs of indeterminate origin
Finally, Elendil’s Heir – more of the “hey, I’m new here,” which I don’t like at all because hey, what the hell, I’m new, too. Also, it may be a minor, selfish, thing, but he is the only poster not to address my direct question (which to be fair was pretty vague in this case, but still). This suspicion is of the “get your act together and get in there and get your hands dirty or I’ll wonder why” variety. Which is a weird variety of suspicion.
Suspicion score: 2 out of 10 shirts with the sleeves and back ripped out.
As I reread this, I’m concerned that I have suspicions working at cross-purposes, but it would do more ill than good to overthink that, in my opinion. I don’t want to assign value to the fact that one of my suspicions is suspicious of my stronger suspicion, and so on and so forth. Therefore, and because I agree that we need to vote more often and more spitefully, I vote for Daphne.
No, seriously, Telcontar is my most comfortable suspicion, so
Has Seeker posted at all today? He may be busy, or he may be trying to avoid saying anything incriminating. He has been one of my top suspects for a while, so I think I’d like to see him tested this round.
Ok, I just spent 2+ hours re-reading this thread, and I’m still at pretty much a loss as to any substantive finger-pointing.
But since I agree that we need to post our suspicions and keep the ‘conversating’ going, here’s my take:
Daphne: is no longer high on my list. If she’s a wolf, then she’s playing this extremely well for a high-volume poster, IMHN(ewbie)O. This is partially due to my misread of the Freudian/Daphne tag-team. But it does mean that I’m looking at people who are going after Daphne a little more closely.
In a “me too” sense, I am really getting bad vibes from Telcontar and in a lesser sense SoT&B. In the things they have said and the way they have presented it - but also because I am taking Freudian Slit’s posts (as a townie and experienced) with extra value.
Telcontar: for my mind, has made a series of intriguingly unusual posts.
a) Volunteered for testing Day 1 right away, but with the caveat that anyone volunteering would most likely be town
b) No-lynching Day 1. Not going to revisit this, it’s been done to death, but I think it’s anti-town
c) After first lynching, asserted that every testee should claim their full alignment role
SoT&B: rather than post “me-too” stuff, I want to make one point that actually in my mind clears SoT&B: back in post 349, well before the issue even came up, SoT&B flatly asserted that wolves could not be ranchers or farmers. If she were a wolf, then she would know that’s not the case. Of course, that post could be put out there specifically to mislead us, but it seems way too prescient and forward-thinking.
Zeriel’s power role: I’m taking it at face value now. I didn’t see much if any conversation on whether or not we think the Wolves have this power role, which I think is an important point for us to consider, because if we think they don’t, then **Zeriel **is probably clearly a townie.
Elendil’s Heir: His claim of farmerhood way back when still pings me. Seems a fairly obvious (too obvious) wolf-play. But also could just be an excited newbie.
Have we given any thought to how we think the wolves are playing this right now? My initial thought was they were trying to eliminate experienced players (up to a certain point, because then it would be too obvious who was a wolf), but that was based on my mistaken idea that Ichino was experienced. Of course, this might play into their hands, so it may not be a great idea until we have a few more data points.
Testing me is a waste of time. Not much more to it than that.
I’m worried by the way things become conventional wisdom in this game without much discussion. Lots of “well, I agree with X’s points about how such and such is scummy,” very little independent thinking. Very worrisome considering that the wolves presumably are competent, even if we are not. Seriously people, think a bit. It’s also why I’ve stopped responding to the attacks; there’s just nothing worth rebutting. I haven’t seen a good case against me in 50 posts.
I’m also frankly pissed at the stupidity surrounding the no-lynch issue. Zeriel made a good argument back at post 166 that we should wait until later to not lynch. it’s a debatable point; he has something there. That I’ve had to deal with so many pages of cr*p about whether the idea of ever not lynching is anti town is simply unjustified. This is the only “point” that seems to be universally made against me and there’s just nothing there.
I really think that our lynch this week should come from one of the first people to target FS. Because people were slacking in their voting, the choice very quickly devolved into me, seeker, or FS. Given that FS turned out to be innocent (and that I know I am), I think it’s worth looking at how that choice evolved. I note that the first three votes there were Daphne Black, Fluiddruid, rexnervous. They put FS on the map. The next votes were SoT&B, Justin Credible, Telcontar, Mahaloth. That pretty much sealed FS’s death. Everything else from yesterday didn’t matter.
I agree with Telcontar, that FS’s innocence is a powerful thing to measure against, but suspicion shouldn’t fall on those who first voted for her alone. One wolf strategy would be to watch suspicion fall on an innocent person, then pile on it - a lot less risky than pointing the finger first and building a case.
I find nothing necessarily scummy about fluid or Daphne - as I talked about above. The sudden pile-on is worth looking at, too. If I may borrow your list, that includes rexnervous, SoT&B, Justin Credible, Telcontar, Mahaloth. Perhaps these posters bare a close inspection.
The obvious thing to notice is the appearance of both Telcontar and Seeker on this list. Now, at the time of these two voting for FS there was a three way tie in the votes between these guys - see post 536. Naturally any of these players would vote for one of the other two out of self-preservation - nothing wrong with that. But neither Tel or Seeker voted for each other - anyone else noticing that they tend to think alike? Indeed, Ichini pointed out that Seeker and Tel are “tagteaming”, and we can now trust his assessments to be made with a protown spirit.
More to come later. Right now I am tired and hungry.
I do actually agree with some of what Telcontar says above. For one thing, we don’t seem very willing to keep our options open. The bandwagon-lovingness of the town as a whole is not good. Just because someone has a few votes does not mean we should stop looking at others that Day.
I hope that if we don’t necessarily lynch the testee that might help with that. Part of why I wanted people to list their suspicions (which you objected to) was so that we wouldn’t just focus on the same people who’ve been receiving heat so far. Unfortunately, we don’t give up on ideas we’ve formed that easily, or so it seems.
I do think, Telcontar, that part of what people (I’m not excluding myself) are responding to with you and Seeker is that there is a sort of edge to your posts, a different tone. I know ‘tone’ is pretty hard to define. To me, the tone sounds a little bit too confident, maybe a little arrogant, a little bit like someone who really knows their situation. People respond to that tone negatively, in part because scum are the only ones who have reason to be confident. But I think it can be a very effective scum tactic. If you make people feel like idiots for finding you suspicious, they might back off. To me it seems like you are trying to bully people away from voting to test you.
I’m quite convinced that most of the scum have been going relatively unnoticed so far.
I just thought of something. If the Werewolves are also Farmers and Ranchers, then Telcontar’s claim of being a rancher (or whatever) doesn’t mean he ISN’T a Werewolf.
By the way, I’m a Werewolf. I’m not going to say whether Telcontar is or not; that would take all the challenge away. However, we’re getting far enough ahead in the balance of You vs. Us that it’s okay if we lose me. We’ve talked about it. So, you were all correct, you may lynch me forthwith.
Nor will I tell you how many of us there are, so don’t ask.
Telcontar has not claimed rancher, or farmer, as far as I remember.
Wait, what?
OK, I thought I was going to bed but now this. Um, what?
Seeker: are you joking?
Assuming ‘no’ –
This is just way too bizarre. Why would the Wolves do this? I cannot for the life of me think of a scum strategy which makes a wolf voluntarily give them selves up like this, especially with the testeriser situation. It makes me worry that there is some sort of special power that Seeker has, which would make it good for the scum if he were tested or lynched. But that seems a bit outre for this game.
For now, I will unvote Telcontar test Seeker
Seeker, care to share why your lycanthropic brethren thought this would be a good plan?
However, think what happens if you Testerize me, a known quantity, then lynch me. It would better off, for all concerned, to just lynch me and Testerize someone else.
How does this help? Who does this help? Anybody? Apart from the town, which doesn’t…
What?
**
Untest Telcontar
Test Seeker
**
Elaborate, Seeker: why would you confess to that? Because the balance is swinging in the wolves favour? That is only bad for the wolves if they are afraid the game is growing boring, in which case f*** you all, you are all going to die.
We want to test you now, we really do. That gives us the colour code for a wolf, or a suicidal townie, whatever the case. I really, really want to test you now.
The only thing that makes sense is that Seeker’s account just got hijacked, in which case I say, “touche, hacker”
Oh Great Mod, do the wolves know how the testeriser works? Do they know the colour codes for anyone the rest of the town doesn’t?
The only way this makes sense is that Seeker is aiming for a clusterfuck here (sorry, kiddies). The only way that makes sense is that he knows that the testeriser will spit out some random, confusing colours that will lead us to false positives. That can only happen if they know more than we know.
How else could this be a good strategy, no matter his alignment?
First, [post=10896618]read this[/post] (again, if you already have).
Yes, it’s a sucky explanation. But you know what? That’s because it’s the truth, and the truth doesn’t always make one sound good. I could, at this point, make up some elaborate explanation of how I deduced Zeriel must be a Rancher but that would be a lie, and if there is one thing I disapprove of, it is Townspeople lying.
Tell the truth and nothing but the truth, that’s my motto as a Townsperson. The factionalism in this game is going to make that impossible in the late game, especially if my faction has had more killed out than the Other Lot, but I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
The explanation in post 785 is all you’re going to get, because it’s the only one there is.
Jimmy, the difference between my question about Telcontar and the statement about Zeriel was, primarily, that the first was a question and the second was not. The two things are completely separate.
Change the subject.
I see that Seeker of Truth and Beauty has claimed Werewolf. That makes my choice easy.
Test Seeker of Truth and Beauty
As for why Seeker made the claim, I don’t know. But right now I’m against testing a third Rancher.
OK, that’s very strange. Seeker either has enough of this game and doesn’t want a sub to go on, or there is a plan to confuse us. I can’t believe he is bowing out just to make it easier for us.
He might be protecting someone, which is in this case most probably the vote leader, Telcontar. A remote chance would be MHaye, because a case against him was made, but that is unlikely with the vote situation as it is.
By the way, could the other wolves please confirm whether Seeker’s claim really was agreed upon?
