I can only guess at this point. Daughter says no, that she was sneaky about it…but who knows. I will probably email bio-mom to ask her, but as always I don’t expect any kind of coherent response.
She really has none. But we are working on changing that. She is just so uninterested in everything I suggest (and always has been) and she’s been through a few months of one thing then a few weeks of another, always quits because they are “boring”. Any suggestions along those line would be great too if anyone knows the secret of finding something daughter will enjoy and stick with.
Thank you. It sure doesn’t feel like it sometimes. Dad is not taking it well at all. This is literally his baby girl. I had to hide his guns and remind him he has a family to think about before taking matters into his own hands. Not really. It hasn’t gone quite that far yet, but I did have to do some serious talking him down when he heard about this new guy. He’d love nothing more than to get his hands on him, but he knows that will do no one any good at all. I am sure anyone with kids can imagine how he feels. There’s been lots of deep breaths and counting to 10 (on both our parts) and lots of working hard to direct any anger toward the situation and not daughter. We don’t approve, we don’t like it and we don’t encourage it, but at the same time we are not angry at her; just disappointed and wanting to help improve things from here.
Well…the judge will certainly get to hear about it. Is it a crime on her part though if she really didn’t know? Honestly I don’t see how she couldn’t given what daughter said, but just to give the benefit of the doubt would that be negligence or accomplice to (complicity) or anything like that?
To say that a 13 year old having sex with an 18 year old is 0% responsible implies that it’s reasonable to say that she’s 0% responsible when she’s 14. And 15. And 16. And 17 (btw, in Arizona there are no Romeo and Juliet laws, so an man can go to jail for a minimum of five years for having sex with a girl who is literally one day younger than him - not really relevant but that’s always bothered me). But once she hits that magic number of 18 she is suddenly 100% responsible for her own actions.
But wait, in other states the age of consent is 17. In many it’s 16. What does that mean? That when you cross arbitrary borders between states a person goes from being an adult to being a child?
Well, yes, by the letter of the law. And I think that’s silly. Am I saying that this isn’t in essence child abuse? No, because it is. But to absolve her of wrongdoing because she’s a precious, innocent child is only going to send damaging messages to her about responsibility and consequences. She shouldn’t be punished at all, of course, because she’s an innocent child. To punish her would mean that she’s done something wrong. Which she hasn’t, because it’s not her fault at all.
She lied about the first guy. She lied about this guy. I don’t see why you can assume anything BUT the idea that she’s lying about her mom’s complicity.
I don’t know if this varies by state, but this is NOT true in New York. Children who are at least twelve have the right to confidentiality, can give their own consent to medical procedures, and can decide if they want their parents present during medical exams.
Here there is a Romeo and Juliet law. I am actually looking it up tonight to see if that is going to come into play with this 18 year old…but it looks like it won’t. If he has just waited for one more week (when daughter turns 14) he might could have used that to his advantage (depending on how many months he has been 18). So I guess based on what I am reading, he’s facing becoming a registered sex offender (if convicted) and up to however many years of jail time.
While I believe that is completely appropriate, I also wonder how many sex offenders I am going to have to deal with before my daughter reaches the age of consent (which is 16 in our state) and how many more before she completely destroys her life too. I wouldn’t even be thinking that way if this hadn’t happened just this past weekend…that was after we talked about and sort of dealt with the first guy (of the thread, who knows if it was the first guy my daughter has encountered) and after the therapist’s appointments where it was brought up, and after the psychiatrist visit and after all the crying and apologizing and swearing she’s never do anything like that again and she knew it was dangerous and she knew she shouldn’t have…It just seems like all of that was a great big lie and she hasn’t learned anything and she doesn’t care to. I know I am just feeling sorry for myself here, and it probably isn’t really that way, but this was all such a blow to us when we thought she was improving so quickly.
Of course you are right. I just don’t want it to be that way. I want to go back to my naive ignorance and still believe that my daughter is a sweet, well behaved girl with a biological mother who will protect her and nurture her appropriately. But I guess that ship has sailed…my list of phone calls in the morning just got a little longer, and I will call social services to get their take on it too.
I know that they have a right to confidentiality here, but I don’t think it starts quite that young in this state. At least, the doctor has never mentioned it to any of my children, and just assumes I will stay with her through the exams. But she has never had any gynecological exams before so I don’t know how that will be addressed.
If need be I will let my daughter know that she has the right to exclude me if she desires and to keep things confidential, but if she chooses to exercise that right I will be greatly disappointed…and she doesn’t like me when I am disappointed. No really though, if she wants confidentiality she will have it, but if she wants me and dad to foot the bills she will include us.
I urge you not to tell her that choice is an option. If she excludes you, you’ll have no way of knowing if she is on birth control, what type, anything. The doctors will not be able to give you any information on her at all without her permission. If you think she’d rather have the gyne exam alone, let her, but don’t hand over the control of her medical care to her.
Definitely that is what I had in mind. I don’t need to be in the room for the actual exam, so if the subject is brought up (not by me) I’ll let her know that I will step into the hallway for that part, but I (and/or her father) will definitely be involved in her medical care.
I can’t imagine her pulling a stunt like that (deciding she wants to keep it confidential) at this point, but then again last week I couldn’t imagine her having sex in someone’s garage, so my instincts may be a bit off. And I have a little bit of an advantage because of our insurance- it doesn’t work unless you have both the card and the military id card which is in my wallet. If she wants things paid for, she gets to drag me along, so I don’t see her going behind my back or going to a doctor without our knowledge. Oh, and of course the birth control is my idea (not hers) so it would be pointless for her to decide to keep it a secret. For right now I am just going with she doesn’t know she has any rights at all and I won’t be informing her that she does…
They grow up so fast, don’t they? It only seems like yesterday she was taking muscle relaxants, telling a 23 year old she loved him and fucking an 18 year old in a garage.
Isn’t she kind of a victim already, of her bio-mom’s toxic behavior? She might be acting out. I mean, sex in an open garage? That’s someone who wants to get caught, and it goes way beyond any definition of “slut”.
Well, not quite: she may not be eligible for the HPV vaccine any more (under the rules being applied in Spain, if you’ve had sex you’re assumed to have been exposed, therefore no vaccine for you), but if you can avoid a teenage pregnancy it’s sure better than any “plans” she’s got floating around. See if you can get a method she is not in command of (DIU, hormonal implants), because I’m sorry to say this but your daughter doesn’t sound like she’s using the amount of brains God gave to a pebble (she may have them, but they ain’t on). Right now I wouldn’t trust her to take the Pill or require condoms any more than I’d trust Bonnie and Clyde with jobs as bank tellers.
Given that typo and that you’re usually a good typist, I think you blood pressure left a splatter on the ceiling, Dio
I don’t think that’s the case here. The pamphlets we get about it at least (sent home from school, sent through the insurance, sent by various doctors…) say:
So hopefully her doctor won’t feel it is too late. The bad thing about the vaccine is that it is so expensive and not covered by our insurance. In addition to the co-payments for every doctor’s visit and higher co-payments for every therapist visit, her medical bills are skyrocketing. Not that I am complaining too much, I’d rather her get the care than not, but we have gone from paying essentially nothing to looking at over $500 for the each of the next few months and now a 3 shot vaccine that is another $400…this is really putting a strain on the family budget.
But if we can get her back to the point that her medical bills are my biggest concern I will be happy. Right now I’d pay anything just to get her better, but I am sure that’s going to be a long, long road from here.
MitzeKatze, I’ve been reading this thread from the beginning and I just have to jump in and give you a virtual hug – I can’t imagine the nightmare you’re going through right now, and you’re handling such an awful situation really, really well.
You’re a good mother. I hope your daughter gets her head back on straight before you reach the outer limits of your sanity.
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Sorry to hijack but there was a bit in the paper about how 18 year olds were getting into trouble with sexting younger kids, and making it sound like “oh poort them! Age is SO arbitaty!” I’m sorry but there’s a HUGE difference between a 13 year old and an 18 year old. Even “normal kids” (not young for their age) have a HUGEdevelopmental gap there!
UGH! I feel for you! Maybe in some weird way she’s thinking that having sex with random guys will win the love of her bio mom. It almost sounds like the attachment disorder acting out that can happen with adopted kids.
You mentioned that she had a stay in a psych ward right? I wonder if that might be related somehow. I know you said that she has a lot of friends and has had some “boyfriends” but I wonder if that’s more “faking it?”
Ive got to say…I don’t want to pass judgement or sound like a prude or anything, but sexual behavoir like this is a HUGE red flag. (meaning I’m not passing judgement on young teens having sex. But the age diffference is BAD! ) There’s something seriously wrong…Its possible she may have been sexually abused or raped or something like that. (and from what you’ve told us about the bio mom she sounds like the type of person who would be a magnet for someone who would be a perpetrator
Teen girls who have been sexually abused/raped tend to think " Oh if I can have sex on my OWN I can “heal”
Or " It’s SO romantic that an older man is interested in me!" <insert vomit smiley here>
Yes, she is. Much in the same way that adult criminals and deviants are the victims of their childhoods. But the answer to this isn’t to pat her on the head and tell her that it’s not her fault, it was how she was raised. It’s to show her that her actions have consequences. That’s how she should have been raised by her bio-mom to begin with. It’s not too late to save her.
My general philosophy is that parents who do not teach their children responsibility of their actions is the one responsible when the child makes bad choices.* So even if you consider the child blameless, it is appropriate to teach the child not to put themselves where these situations can happen. And sometimes that requires taking away the tools that could put them in that situation until you are sure they can handle it.
*Mitze, you already do this, I’m talking about biomom,
Can the doctor keep secrets from the parents? I don’t know how HIPAA works with minors.
I have mixed feelings about the parent being in the room for the exam - even tho Daughter is not a virgin, a pelvic is not something one usually wants to share, especially the first time. Perhaps Mom can be on the other side of a screen or something. But I do take your intent - don’t want daughter to tell doc something that mom NEEDS to know, and have doc not pass it on.
I wouldn’t even be thinking that way if this hadn’t happened just this past weekend…that was after we talked about and sort of dealt with the first guy (of the thread, who knows if it was the first guy my daughter has encountered) and after the therapist’s appointments where it was brought up, and after the psychiatrist visit and after all the crying and apologizing and swearing she’s never do anything like that again and she knew it was dangerous and she knew she shouldn’t have…It just seems like all of that was a great big lie and she hasn’t learned anything and she doesn’t care to. I know I am just feeling sorry for myself here, and it probably isn’t really that way, but this was all such a blow to us when we thought she was improving so quickly.
No really though, if she wants confidentiality she will have it, but if she wants me and dad to foot the bills she will include us.