My hope is that in defending himself, the man will say “But her own Mom knew, and even made breakfast for me” or some such thing. I’m betting that would definitely put this judge back on the right track.
The process, however difficult, will also show just how many people besides yourself and her Father think that this is horrendous and that she has been used. The more people who she hears it from, the better.
I agree that she needs to be led into taking responsibility for her behavior, but it’s also important that she know and internalize the fact that she has been victimized. Her WombUnit’s approval has made this a very confusing aspect, I’m sure. The goal is for her to walk away from this knowing how to recognize abuse/abusers and how to protect herself/ask for help. She has been successfully seduced, by at least two people who are older, wiser, and certainly do not have her best interests at heart. With the complicity of her own WombUnit. My heart bleeds for her.
A few of my high school friends were like this, and to be honest, would have slept with anyone who gave them a compliment. They were so desperate for positive attention, they’d trade anything for it, and even think it was a love story. It’s been said, but I’ll repeat, your girl needs lots of hugs and love right now. Be especially vigilant that her Dad doesn’t become afraid to touch her, and doesn’t stop giving her hugs.
Look for things that you can give her compliments about, and make it your goal to give each child at least one compliment each day. “Catch her being good” and look for things you can praise her for. Her self-esteem is rock bottom, and she needs to hear some input on what she’s doing right.
I wonder if the following might help the daughter put some of her own activities in perspective: pointing out that by having sex with the 18 year old, she’s putting him at risk for spending time in jail and also for being branded FOR LIFE as a predator, screwing up his chances at practically any job he might apply for, housing he might like to live in, etc. And had she gotten together with the 28 year old, ditto.
It may be stretching it a bit - how many 13 year olds would be able to think that critically, and empathetically (mine might, or might not…) but maybe it’d be a useful approach.
I think she’s already codependent enough! She needs to understand that they did not have her best interests at heart. I think Dad needs to have a heart-to-heart with her about how some males are completely driven by testosterone, and “urges.” And how wiling they are to lie about love to get what they want.
What I really came back to say was "MK, you are an amazing Mom, and I want you to knwo that I am taking notes. God forbid I’d ever need them, but if I do, I hope I handle it with as much grace as you have.
Regarding doctor’s visits and medical information, state and federal law supercedes HIPAA, but generally the parent or guardian of a minor has the right to know everything, except in these cases…
To allow a 13 year-old irresponsible child to control what will and will not be disclosed regarding her very high-risk behavior would be seriously remiss.
You may also want to call your local prosecutor’s office. They can give you advice on what they need in order to prove a case, and sometimes even help you file.
Do you have a Child Advocacy Center near you? Kind of a one-stop shop–she gets an examination, and talks about what happened with a trained forensic investigator, and they generally videotape that interview, which (at least in my state, although we’re always appealing) is then usable in court, so your daughter wouldn’t even have to testify.
That’s something I would consider if…But no. I think my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the world, but she is not conventionally pretty (although when she does her make-up and styles her hair she looks just like every other teenage girl out there- not at all ugly but maybe just “plain” or “ordinary”) and right now she has been fighting pretty severe acne. She’s also slightly overweight (but not fat) and likes to refuse to wear appropriately sized clothing, she’s a junior size 13-15 but tries to cram herself into her old size 9-10 clothing which only accentuates the “pudginess”. I think encouraging any sort of modeling would only backfire on her.
And you know, it is odd, but maybe another teenage weirdness thing, but even though she complains that she is fat (mostly before she sits down to an extra-large dessert) she always seemed to have healthy, or even too high self-esteem. She describes herself as “a hottie” and she projects that. And she complains that she gets tired of “people at school” telling her she’s pretty because of course she knows that she is…But in a strange sort of way I do think her looks and/or her weight might contribute to the promiscuity. She may not really believe what she says or the attention from boys might re-enforce that. It’s either an ego-boost or validation, I don’t know which.
In any case, attention has always been something she has craved (and received) so I guess it makes sense that she would act out in this way.
But thank you for the suggestion and if there are any more, it is something I am actively looking for. Unfortunately in our area it seems that every “fun” thing I can find is church based, which is not bad but not something daughter wants to do. But then maybe that would be good for her too…I want to keep her busy and active, but I also don’t want it to be a punishment, and I am afraid that if I enroll her in anything “churchy” that’s what she’ll think.
It’s sad what is sometimes expected of children, isn’t it? I do wonder if the people who believe this ever stop to think what they are doing to the kids- what a responsibility for a child to be the one “assigned” to save a parent or save a marriage. When that fails, the kids can’t help but to feel like the failure is on them (if I had just been a better son/daughter…).
It is sadder still that the judge in our case thinks that daughter will help bio-mom in any way re-gain sanity because daughter herself was only conceived as a last ditch effort to save her bio-mom’s marriage, and she has been told that (by bio-mom, not us of course but with the timing of the divorce she could probably figure that out anyway if she tried). If she knew that she was now expected to get bio-mom back to being a normal parent, she might just take it to heart…okay I failed the first time, I need to try harder this time…or maybe she is and that’s why bio-mom has been able to screw with head as much as she has, I don’t know. But it is just sad.
I haven’t posted in this thread, as it seems the OP is enjoying the attention she is getting from her daughters situation (which reads like junior high school fiction) a wee bit too much, but this is the funniest thing I have read on SDMB in the past week—Well done!!!
Yesterday (oh God, was it only a day ago?) when we learned about the 18 year old, first she and I took a walk- she is more comfortable with heart-to-heart talks when we are walking these days, and I told her everything about my experiences including my first time when I had sex with a (slightly) older teen-aged boy who swore he’d love me forever and who I just knew I was truly, deeply, madly in love with even though we didn’t really know each other. I told her too that after that first time, he never spoke to me again and how devastating that was and still is, even though I now know much more about the whys and hows and motivations.
When we returned, Dad and she sat down at the dining room table with glasses of juice and plates of snacks (again distraction seems to be the key to her opening up) and he told her about how he was as a teenager and how he pressured his girlfriend into sex- the lengths he went to and exactly how slimy he would have sunk in order to get her to “give in”. And he told her why he did that (with the benefit of hindsight) and how awful he feels about it now, but that he also understands that boys and men are kind of horndogs sometimes and that he wants to help her understand the difference between sex and love too so that she doesn’t (again) have to make the same mistakes or fall for the same tricks or hormonal reasoning that we did.
I don’t know how much got through to her, but this is really really hard on Dad (harder than on me) and he is trying so hard…I know no Dad wants to sit down and talk about their 13 year old’s sex life with them but I hope he made an impression on her.
Thank you, that means a lot to me, but you might want to wait until we have a proven outcome before following any of my examples.
Okay, I am not really concerned about this aspect simply because it hasn’t been an issue yet and I am pretty sure that since we already know so much and we are the ones forcing the std checks, pap smear and birth control, there is no reason for daughter to invoke confidentiality rights this late in the game, but…the quoted part makes me go “hmmmmmmmm”.
I am not her (biological) parent but I have been authorized to make treatment decisions (and other decisions as well) by the courts. Would that mean that I could get around it and demand the information if need be? Again not that I think there will be a need, I am almost positive that this doctor’s visit will go much the same as all the others with daughter looking to me to answer the questions she doesn’t want to and with me in the room with her (except possibly during the physical exam…that is kind of icky for both of us I would think).
Oh. Maybe I should have called them first. The sucky thing is that everything is so compartmentalized and no one plans for this sort of thing, so when the time comes, how do you know who to call? I have no clue as to the chain of command so I hope I am not creating more confusion. I am to take daughter to give her statements this afternoon, so I will mention it there too I guess.
You know those refrigerator magnets with the numbers for 911, poison control, non-emergency police services, etc.? They need to make those with who to call if your daughter starts messing with grown men (or men start messing with your daughter). It would be a public service and would have saved me hours of searching, wondering and second-guessing.
Heh…I have no idea. That sounds like exactly where I should have started though. (Again, where is my refrigerator magnet? ;)). At this point though, we are giving statements this afternoon, and her doctor’s appointment is tomorrow, so I am not sure if we should start all over from there.
From everything I know about modeling: no, no, no, a billion times no. It will not make her more comfortable with herself–it will make her less. One friend who modeled as a teen stopped when she turned 18 and was told she wouldn’t be given any more work unless she got a nose job and dropped something like 30 pounds (when she was already quite thin). One of the things she also mentioned she hated was that runway shows tended to consist of having your clothes ripped off and new ones thrown at you. Not exactly the kind of thing to pave the way to respecting your own body and denying other people access to it.
As has been pointed out, the OP thought they were funny. Now, I can see where for some people, this would be taking it too far, but different people react differently to black humor. A note to keep in mind that not everyone will appreciate it in the future would be in order, certainly, but being told to stop something that the OP herself appreciated? :dubious: Speaking personally, black humor is how I deal best with the worst situations. If I had a thread like this and someone was told to quit it with that brand of humor after I’d already expressed my appreciation, I’d be a bit annoyed.
Hmmm…as the OP I am not sure if I should be insulted or what. I am also not sure how I seem to be enjoying any attention, other that I am still sharing and responding to posts. I will tell you that is because this is something I can hash out with relative strangers who are merely pixels on my screen so I can keep my focus in real life in dealing with the very real drama that my family is dealing with.
I appreciate that you believe it reads as fiction, I only wish it were. Trust me…look at the times on my posts alone and you will see just how little sleep I have been getting, and how little attention I am receiving (or seeking). I am choosing however to take it instead as a complement to writing style and a suggestion that I could take up as an author later in life if I choose to do so. Who knows maybe I will write a semi-biographical story of my daughter’s wayward teen years and make my fortune. So thank you for that.
Drama is great both for kids with self-esteem issues and for kids who crave attention, because it allows her to build up her confidence and communication skills, and have some time in the spotlight. It allows her to be the centre of attention without the pressure, because people aren’t judging her, they are judging her character. It can also be a great way to work through strong emotions and conflicting feelings (not that I would advocate it at the expense of therapy, but it sounds like she is already receiving that). She can explore things safely through the mask of the characters she plays.
Also it’s another activity out of the house with people her own age, and is not so focused on her looks. She might build up some healthy (non-sexual) relationships through all the team and trust building exercises.
Does your daughter love animals? If so, maybe that would be a path to getting her involved in something outside herself.
Is there an animal shelter near you? They usually need volunteer help, and there’s nothing like sad dog eyes and purring kitties for feeding a hunger for love that’s returned.
Does she love horses? If so, is there a stable near you where she could take lessons and also learn horse care? Girls who get passionately into horses tend to direct their affection and attachments into the horse(s) in their life rather than boys; their mothering instincts are likely to kick in and they devote huge amounts of time and energy into pampering their ponies.
Not saying this is a gimme; but maybe it’s something that could help.
Didn’t help me. (I remember one play I was in there was a scene where I was to kiss my partner. For some reason the drama prof quickly rewrote that part (our characters laughed together instead :dubious:), I have no idea if it’s because I seemed (to her anyways, have no idea if I actually was) too eager to rehearse that scene (never even got to practice that part!)
Yes isn’t a miracle of nature how the moment that clock strikes 12 on their 18th birthday young women go from complete morons who can’t make any decisions for themselves to full grown ups perfectly capable of deciding when to let penises near them.
I agree with EddyTeddyFreddy - barns aren’t a bad place for a young girl to hang around. Drinking and smoking aren’t permitted (although I’m sure they sneak it sometimes), because you endanger the horses. It’s mostly girls and few boys (like ballet). She will learn she can control a 1000 lb animal, which gives her a feeling of power. If she’s into, maybe she could find a place that allows her to work in exchange for lessons, which will have her spend more time there.
I would recommend volunteer work. She can help out at a soup kitchen, food bank, Habitat for Humanity, etc. You may want to go with her to volunteer for the first couple of times to make sure that the teen volunteers are supervised and that it’s a good volunteer experience. If you find the right kind of situation for her, the work shouldn’t feel like punishment. For the teen volunteers that I’ve worked with, they really get something positive out of helping someone who really needs it.
(I remember one play I was in there was a scene where I was to kiss my partner. For some reason the drama prof quickly rewrote that part (our characters laughed together instead :dubious:), I have no idea if it’s because I seemed (to her anyways, have no idea if I actually was) too eager to rehearse that scene (never even got to practice that part!)