I just wanted to pop in and give an update about the doctor etc. The good news is apparently the confidentiality stuff that was a bit worrisome, either doesn’t apply in KS or doesn’t apply to this age, or something because it was never mentioned. Or maybe if daughter had brought it up it would have been…Either way, I was in the room with my daughter the whole time (with the exception of the physical exam, for which I stepped into the hallway) and it went well. Daughter is all birth-controlled up (Depo) so that is one less worry.
Funny though, daughter was insistent that she doesn’t need birth control because she is going to stop now. I’d really like for her to, but at the same time I have to be realistic, and what are the chances that after screwing around this long (I thought maybe once or twice, turns out she told the doc that she has been doing this for almost a year! That means since she was barely 13, possibly even 12…how could I have missed that?). And again, according to what daughter told doc, this 18 year old is far from the first. When asked how many partners she had, daughter had to stop and think about it and count…my heart sank.
So given the promiscuity especially, it was emphasized that she still needs to take precautions against STDs (that depo won’t prevent of course) and she had a full work up of tests, the results of which should be back soon, I am just keeping my fingers crossed that she’s clean. Can you imagine contracting anything this young? How devastating would that be for the rest of your life. I shudder to think about it.
Everything else is getting on track too. Daughter doesn’t think she wants to volunteer at anything, but right now I am presenting it as “you are grounded so you stay with me. I am volunteering on weekends, so you are too”. We’ll see how she does when we get there. And I am still looking into stables, and other activities to keep her busy. She has yet another therapist appointment today (she sees her once a week) so we’ll discuss all of the recent developments with therapist too and get her take on it.
Thanks everyone for the overwhelming responses, you have all been very helpful. I appreciate the (virtual) support.
It’s tough to see a kid who’s engaging in destructive attention-seeking behavior at such a young age. I remember meeting a girl when I was 17-18 who was 15 and pregnant with her second child-- she got pregnant both times by getting stoned with guys who were not to be trusted to not take advantage of her naivete and willingness to have some positive attention. Both times, the guys would spurn her as soon as they were both sober again and act as if she wasn’t deserving of attention outside of that situation. You’re trying really hard to make sure that your daughter doesn’t fall into something like this, and I applaud your efforts; this is among the most difficult issues to deal with when raising teenagers, and you’re handling it well, IMO.
I hope that this issue of her seeking attention in a negative manner can be resolved fairly soon. If it doesn’t look like it’s going to end, you may want to make sure that, though you don’t approve of the reasoning behind her promiscuity (attention-seeking), you want her to be safe and to protect herself if she’s going to do it. If she’s going to continue sleeping with people to try and provide a “bandage” for her self esteem, you may want to make sure that she’s got condoms available to her so she’s reducing the risk involved in what’s already pretty risky behavior. I don’t think it’s encouragement as long as you make sure that she understands that, while you don’t condone the behavior, if she’s going to engage in it, she might as well be a little safer about it.
Does she have a lot of friends, or at least one or two close friends? Having a good friend who doesn’t engage in risky behavior can also go a long way toward her not continuing the promiscuous attention-seeking from random men.
Do you feel like you missed out on some aspects of being young by getting pregnant so early, Mitze? Did some things about being a mother that young suck? If so, your daughter needs to know that. She needs to know that teenage motherhood isn’t just like being a normal teenager but with a cute baby to love you unconditionally. She needs to know that you’re not against her having sex only because of some arbitrary moral standard that she may disagree with, or because you think she’s still a little girl, but because some of the consequences of having sex could make her life suck.
While it’s important to for her to hear that, one of the problems is that, from what I’ve heard (from Dr Laura Berman) is that the 13 year old mind physical doesn’t have the ability to comprehend that type of information. I mean, they understand what you’re saying, but they really can’t comprehend how much it will impact their lives.
IMO, I’d say it’s not that a 13-year-old can’t *physically *process it, but they can’t *experientially *comprehend it, in the same way my mid-to-late-20s self couldn’t comprehend how my life would change if I got breast cancer.
I have been following this thread, and am writing for the first time.
Never wanted to be a parent, but I always liked the idea of being a grandfather. I have been a music teacher for over 30 years, and I have channeled my story-telling and nurturing instincts into my teaching.
As a youngster, I had a lot to deal with, and caused my parents many problems, but never dealt with these kinds of issues.
I can’t imagine my parents coping as well as you are.
The view can be SO narrow from a young teenager’s eyes. Hopefully, she will learn that the way she feels now is not the way she will always feel.
Good luck to you and your family.
Love
David
Here is a suggestion that I am surprised no one else has made, but I have found to be the best sexual responsibility pro-birth control program in the world: have her spend a lot time with toddlers and babies (especially babies). Nothing demystifies babies faster than changing a dirty diaper. Perhaps let her watch a video of a birth (assisting with a birth nearly made me asexual). And look for a volunteer opportunity that exposes her to poor women with children. Many of these will be single mothers who will be glad to tell her about the lines and lies men used on them to get sex, but evade responsibility and how actually hard it is to be in their position.
But seriously, if this guy is stupid enought to do something like this, I have a simple plan of action for you.
I assume you have a Facebook page. Message him. Tell him if he keeps it up you are going to call the authorities. This is probably going to scare him off. I guess its risky though.
A couple of good ideas actually. The up close and personal exposure to young infant care has worked in a couple of cases near me. Leaky diapers, colic, and teething are a crash back down to earth from romantic flights of fantasy.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean MK’s daughter will be able to apply anything to her own situation. She could see the 20-something guy’s Facebook history, could see that he was using exactly the same schtick with her as with all the other girls he stalked, and even had a former “girlfriend” he raped (statuatory, but still rape) PM her to tell her what she was in for, and she still refused to actually process any of it.
Maybe it’s just me, but this child seems to be screaming for someone to give a shit.
I’m not buying the ‘she forgot’ you can read her email, I’m not buying that. She seems to be ratcheting up the promiscuity, becoming more and more overt, in an attempt to get someone - anyone - to care enough to step in and, well, parent her.
It kind of sounds like the bioMom has some severe issues that are being passed on. Predominantly that her entire worth is measured in the ability to attract male attention. It’d be easy to believe that’s the message she’s been receiving from the Mom. She doesn’t really know how to either be like her Mom, or not like her Mom. And I’d be willing to bet she doesn’t want to be dealing with any of this. I’d wager she’s trying, in her own dysfunctional teenaged way, to communicate that she’s not ready for any of this.
It sounds like therapy is a good idea but I bet what she needs is a Mom to sit her down and have a heart to heart with her. About what boys are going to say, to get her into bed, what her come back should be, and why. About not settling for measuring your worth based solely on your attractiveness to men, pointing out that she got this message from bioMom and that it’s part of what’s wrong in bioMom’s lifestyle.
Part of me wants to ask who thinks it’s okay for a 13yr old to be hanging out with 18yr olds? Staying overnight? Where was the parental supervision? Because she really ‘likes’ this friend? No doubt, she gets to act like an 18yr old at 13. Who wouldn’t like such a friend? Maybe start treating her like a 13yr old, instead of an 18yr old? I could see how that’s maybe what she really wants, a return to a simpler, as yet unsexualized childhood.
Her overtly sexual activity seems to scream, “won’t someone please care about me enough to lay down the law”. She seems to want intervention, perhaps to save her from acting out in a way she doesn’t understand. A therapist will help, but it won’t replace an actual, on the ground participating parent.
The riding lessons suggestion made me laugh right out loud, only in America! I understand about hobbies and other interests having some benefit. But it strikes me as just distraction from what we don’t want to address. Like I said though, maybe it’s just me.
Good luck to you, this sure isn’t an easy problem you’re facing. I hope you find the help you need and that you can get her back on track.
I almost commented on this earlier. It is very true that neurological development in the most relevant brain region (prefrontal cortex) is not complete until the early 20s.* However, this does not mean that it’s impossible to get through to her, just that you really shouldn’t expect adult levels of cognition from 13 year olds. Which is why we have AOC laws in the first place :P. (I’m rather missing a certain poster right now. And by “missing” i mean “am glad they are gone.”)
*well…it’s never “complete” until you’re dead, but you know what i mean.
Some teenage girls like babies more for getting to see and play with them, despite diapers (just like some decide to get pregnant after seeing their friend’s teenage pregnancy). This is probably a great suggestion, but think carefully about whether your daughter might be an exception. Also, having her watch the video from a birthing reminds me of something from a Chuck Palahniuk novel.
Edit to Address Elbows:
I have trouble seeing how her father and step mother could do more than they already are in the “giving a shit” department. Did you read the thread carefully?
I don’t think she wants riding lessons or time with stepMom volunteering. I think she wants someone, who cares, to teach her another way to be in the world, and why it’s important.
I was thinking don’t let her move with 18yr olds, stay unsupervised overnight with 18yr olds, talk to her about what’s actually going on rather that just trying to keep her occupied. I mean, she’s got issues that horseback riding isn’t going to address, and she seems to be doing everything in her power to get someone-anyone to address them.
Therapists, Dr’s, police - all good. But not what she would seem, to me anyway, to be screaming for. She seems to want someone to tell her how to handle her sexuality. Not birthcontrol and STD’s, her actual sexuality. It seems like everyone is dancing around it, except bioMom who is sending her message loud and clear.
That’s an interesting take on it, but her breakdown last month was blamed partially (by her) on too much parenting. She claimed that she felt like we were too strict, too “up in her business” and too “controlling”. She knows that we love her and why we do what we do, but at the same time from her 13 year old perspective we “stalk” her and we “spy on her” simply to annoy her…
I think this is more correct. Something we are going to be working on…
The thing is, she has always had that. The problem IMO is that it’s just words to her, she can’t see what’s wrong until she experiences it. I don;'t talk trash about bio-mom, but I do point out mistakes that she has made and how they could have been prevented, and I have always been open with daughter about all these things. She took great pains to hide her sexual exploits up until this point, and she would have continued to do so if it weren’t for the third party intervention (friend’s mom calling). Even now, I cannot be sure that what she says is the truth or if there is even more…or even if what she is saying now is exaggerated for even more attention.
One problem I am having dealing with the current situation is that I disagree a bit with the way my husband and I are handling it. I found drugs in her room- she has a breakdown, gets hospitalized, sees doctors; find out she’s sleeping around with adult men- she sees doctors. She has a bad day at school (behavior-wise; she got another detention) she gets to leave class and speak with the counselor (not a doctor, but close). So far it has been daughter gets in trouble = daughter sees a doctor. I am afraid we are teaching her that she can get away with these things (the behavior, not the psychological issues) and the worst thing that is going to happen is that she will see a doctor. I don;t want to punish her exactly, but I think she needs to experience some negative consequences of her actions too (besides just feeling bad about it). So I don;t know what to do or what should be done.
No one. The friend she was staying with is also a 14 year old girl. They waited until the parents were asleep to sneak around and sneak the 18 year old in. That at least I can make sure never happens again.
You misunderstood. My daughter does not hang out with 18 year olds (other than her brothers) and does not get treated as one…far from it. She is the only one of her peer group who still has a “be in when the streetlights come on” curfew, and she is very closely supervised. The behavior she has gotten away with so far has been pure sneakiness, and a matter of flat out lying about where she is.
That’s the problem. She has that. She has the most involved, strictest (but not negatively so) parents that I have ever known. We do not cut our children any slack, and we know who they are with, where they are and what they are doing at all times (or thought we did). She does not go over to anyone’s house without me first speaking to the parents, she is not allowed to run the streets like some teens do, she is within our sight most of the time, and we are a very tight family- we do things together, and any time she is not in school, she is usually with me. She sees her friends of course, but our house is their typical hang-out. She is not allowed to spend the night with anyone who we do not know well (and know the parents) and that she has done what she has and has hidden so much is just flabbergasting. Grant it, much of this has occurred while on visitation with bio-mom (all of the sex apparently, with the exception of last weekend at the friend’s house) so obviously we can;t watch her 24/7, but when she is not on visitation, she is kept on a short leash.
Again, I think you misunderstood. The hobbies, etc. are distractions in addition to dealing with this and addressing it. First we address it, then we find her better uses of her time that will keep her from going back to it.
I am not sure how this part got so misunderstood. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. My daughter does not “move” with 18 year olds and would never in a million years be permitted to spend the night unsupervised with one.
She had sex with an 18 year old while spending the night at her 14 year old best friend’s house. The parents are good, watchful parents who I trust and speak to often. The girls brought boys over late at night after the parents went to sleep. Those parents are as devastated as I, and that girl is also in trouble. Neither will be permitted sleep overs again for quite some time, and neither have ever had permission to be hanging out with adults or socializing with adult men.
I don’t see how you could possibly have been clearer in your posts MK. Looks like there are a couple of people chiming in on page 9 that may not have actually read all 8 of the other pages.
Keep your chin up! You are fighting a tough battle, but doing an admirable job!
Thanks, that does clear up a lot of what I didn’t get from what you’d written.
Maybe she’s trying to communicate that she doesn’t want to be exposed to the BioMom? She doesn’t want to own that, because it’s complicated, and she’s a teenager. Maybe she’s hoping you’ll find a way to be the bad guy and step in and stop the visitations. [Which, I realize, are probably enshrined in a custody agreement.]
Perhaps have a heart to heart with her about it. Would she prefer to skip a few visits? You could just make excuses for a time. She’s sick, can’t come, got our dates confused/busy, can’t come, got bad period cramps, can’t come. Maybe it would buy her some time to realize she really doesn’t want to be with BioMom for a while. Surely at 13 she can’t be forced to go if she’s of a mind not to.
You sound like you’re doing a great job, either way. Just keep swinging and don’t give up. After all the most important thing she’ll ever learn is that you care enough to make hard choices for her.
Obviously I have a very different take on this situation than elbows. But this may explain some of the confusion:
If you go back and reread your initial post about the sex, it is slightly unclear (I imagine you had quite a lot on your mind at the time). You describe the 18 year old girlfriend of an 18 year old boy and then say that your daughter was staying with “this friend” in the next sentence. I initially read that as with the 18 year old girlfriend, but then that didn’t quite make sense in context.
Or it may not explain the confusion. People weighing in for the first time on page 9 of a thread come to the oddest conclusions.
You don’t think it’s a good idea to set her up with something constructive to do with her free time, versus having sex in somebody’s garage?