I also don’t equate the term “independent woman” solely with financial means. This is because I’ve known plenty of women who earned their own income, yet “independent” would be the last word I’d use to describe them.
I think it’s a state of mind. If being single is the scariest situation you could imagine yourself in, you’re not independent. If you’re in a relationship and the only time you ever see your friends (if you even have any friends anymore) is when your S.O. isn’t around? Not independent. If you immediately dump all of your friends as soon as you aquire a S.O.? Not independent. If you pitch a hissy and cry and moan when your S.O. dare want to go out without you? SO not independent.
You can have a woman who’s bringing in a six figure salary on her own but is clingy as all hell, smothers any male she manages to get her claws into and proceeds to completely lose her shit whenever she doens’t have a man in her life. That woman? NOT independent.
I, like a lot of the posters above, always heard it referring mostly to financial and social independence…an independent woman is unmarried, holds her own job, doesn’t have to worry about taking care of a husband or kids.
I also sort of thought the term was obsolete now…that it was a term from the 50s-70s, when it was unusual for a woman to be single and a professional.
This is so true… a female friend of mine is a PR executive for a major transportation company, and if I say so, she’s HOT.
Yet… back when I was single, I got something like 4x the number of dates she did- and I’m a guy who looks like a smaller(6’1") version of an NFL offensive lineman, belly and all.
I’ve never understood it- my friend is stunning- great body, pretty face, terrific personality, sharp wit, interesting tastes- she has quite a wine collection as well as all the Invader Zim DVDs and all the MST3K episodes on videotape.
Apparently many (most?) guys are intimidated by a beautiful woman who’s competent, confident and successful.
Back to the OP…
My thoughts on “independent women” are that while there’s definitely a component of financial and emotional independence, there absolutely has to be a certain contentment or non-bitter acceptance of their singleness- kind of a willingness to be single and independent for their own sake, not just because they didn’t land the successful husband and become a housewife after college.
I know several girls who are independent, not through any conscious life choices of their own, but because they just haven’t landed a more successful husband yet. And, it’s obvious that they’re not happy with their current ‘independent’ state. There’s a definite difference in attitude toward things vs. the other friend I mentioned earlier.
msmith537, I apologize if I misconstrued your post above as somehow endorsing a stereotype, rather than simply reporting what you see reflected in the media.
I thought the question “What is an independent man?” was interesting. I guess the independent man is probably not sitting around reading the book on how men can balance their career, child-raising, and marriage.
I think it’s true that many, if not most guys are intimidated by successful women. Personally, I like women who are smart and educated.
I don’t think being an “independent women” in the sense of not ever needing a man is particularly healthy. It’s ok, if not necessary, to have healthy emotional relationships, especially with the opposite sex. I would say that the phrase “independent man” doesn’t exist because we know we need women in our lives. Not only for sex, but also because it’s nice to have someone who discourages our natural self-destructive male tendencies.
msmith537, I commend you for asking these questions. They are good ones!
That really depends on the people involved. The more confident they are, probably the less it will matter.
That’s true for a lot of women. But I also want my man to be proud of my accomplishment too – whether they are in the working world or at home.
BTW, I think that over time you would actually like an assertive woman. It’s the aggressive woman that is so abrasive. Check out this link for a brief description of the difference. (An assertive woman will be looking out for what’s fair for you too.)
Now I have a question for you: If the woman who wants both the high-powered career and the family is considered the “have it all” woman," what do you call a man who wants both the high-powered career and the family?
Choices:
a. ambitious
b. reasonable
c. Dad
d. hard-working
e. admirable
f. the have it all man
g. all of the above
Well, healthy relationships are an important, maybe even an essential part of life. But there’s a difference between not wanting any sort of relationship at all ever and not needing to have some sort of relationship, any relationship. When you need a relationship, you’re prone to having all sorts of unhealthy relationships rather than being alone. But if you’re comfortable being alone, and realize that it doesn’t make you less of a person, you’re more likely to wait for a good relationship to come along. It’s not about being alone forever. It’s about being willing to be alone until you find someone who’s good for you.
Oddly enough, it seems like having a high-powered job is often viewed as a sacrafice men make to keep their family financially well off. Or at the very least it’s just expected - a man with a family should go and be successful at work. Whereas with women, I think the high-powered career is still viewed as kind of a side project to raising a family. At least that’s how I think our culture still views it.
My take:
-independent woman = woman of indepedent means- i.e. , able to support herself financially
True independence as a human being includes the idea of not requiring a life-partner to make the person’s life a success, although the person may choose to be in a relationship, have children etc. It also includes the concept of being able to make one’s own decisions about one’s life and events in it.
It is hard to take out the wage-earner from the definition of independent woman because often he or she who makes the cash also makes the rules. In many traditional marriages (male breadwinner/female stay-at-home mother) , the man earns the cash and sees it as his to divvy up- so much for his needs & wants, and so much for the wife and kids needs & wants. Wife typically gets an allowance to manage household needs, but her wants are relegated at best to 3rd place. Ann Crittenden’s excellent book , “The Price of Motherhood: Why the Most Important Job in the World is Still the Least Valued” goes through this in detail, and talks about how the non-wage-earning spouse (male or female) loses clout in financial decision-making for the family, even when the partners are good people. I have also seen the impact of this in my parents’marriage, where what the family does is what my father (wage-earner) wants, not what my mother (stay-at-home parent) wants. Upcoming retirement plans are a topic of major contention, but everyone in the family knows dad’s vision will win out; my mother is in a state of angry resignation, because she knows this too.
Are women & men uncomfortable when the woman is the primary breadwinner? In my marriage, we went from my husband being the primary breadwinner, to a brief period of being equal breadwinners, to now my being the primary breadwinner , and shortly I will be the sole breadwinner. I have no discomfort about this at all. My husband was OK so long as we were both breadwinners, but has had some surprising issues to deal with as he comtemplated stopping his job to be at home for our ASD son (will I still respect him or will I feel he is abusing me? will he still be able to engage in activities that he has done in the past that he knows I don’t see as value-added activities?). My husband’s mother has had a very hard time with the idea that even if I can support my family quite well financially, and my husband no longer wishes to work outside the home, that he can do such a thing. My father also has had difficulty with the idea of my husband quitting work, rather than me going part-time to manage things better on the home front. I think my mother approves, but she has never actually come out and said so. It will be interesting to see how our friends and acquaintances react.
Unfortunately (especially for the kids involved), the family too often seems to be the side project to the high-powered career. Women still have the idea that they can have it all, and I don’t think that is possible for most people.
I do agree with you and others about men being expected to work and support the family; that idea is lingering long.
