Deadwood?
Here’s the crux of the issue, and something the writer’s haven’t adequately conveyed: SOA is not a small MC.
It’s based on the Hell’s Angels. A rather largeish “Outlaw” club with an international presence.
The Redwood Original may not be all that large, but Clay Morrow, as SOA Club President, has more pull, more power, more manpower and guns, than Tony Fucking Soprano could dream of having.
The gun-running, drug cartel connections, competition and friction with other Outlaw clubs and OC syndicates, are pretty realistic (in the fact that these things exist, if not the way they’re portrayed on the show).
I’m not disputing your observation, RogueRacer; I’m saying the show hasn’t adequately conveyed the sheer scope of an intenational crime syndicate, and by focusing almost exclusively (in the frist three seasons) on the Redwood Original Charter, has made it seem like a small band of guys are getting into a shit-load of trouble, much more than they realistically might.
It wasn’t until the Real IRA hook-up in the latter half of S3 that I think they’ve begun to show the real scope of what an organization like the Sons would have, as a fictional analog of the Hell’s Angels. They continued that in S4 with the Cartel/DEA/CIA connection. S5 seems almost like a step backwards to a smaller scope, with the club having problems with purely local OC types, like Pope (but I do like the character!).
I’m not blaming Kurt Sutter too much for this; the guy’s a TV Writer/Producer and has a budget he has to work within. But it is a failing of the show.
It’s much less prevalent (practically non-existent) now that BATFE is part of Justice, but from the late 70’s through the early 90’s the BATF (under Treasury) had some real snakes, from executive level down to regular agents. I think that this is the kind of culture that Sutter is trying to portray, even if it’s time has passed for almost two decades, now.
Compare and contrast June Stahl’s techniques in S1-S3 with those of Lincoln Potter’s in S4; Potter was a scary-smart, stand-up guy, he played within the rules, and honestly tried (and was well on his way to succeeding) to make a case against the Sons before their Cartel/DEA/CIA connection bought them immunity from Potter’s investigations, and prosecution.
Yeah, I think of it as a guilty pleasure. Kind of on par with Gossip Girl.
The Ireland season was ridiculous. The plot was ridiculous, the accents were ridiculous, and a lot of the scenery didn’t even look like Ireland.
The scenery was the worst bit. Scene in what appears to actually be Belfast, complete with murals etc. cuts to scene of Americana barn bathed in dusty golden sunshine that’s meant to be somewhere in Donegal. I actually love the incongruity of it.
Production meeting note:
- if we tint the picture bluish green, and play modern celtic punk music, they will think it is Ireland.
Actually, the whole barn scene reminded me of the A-Team for some reason.
Since you mentioned my name in the rest of your post, I figured I should respond. From what we’ve seen in the show the Sons are a small club in comparison to some of the real, large outlaw clubs. In the first season, they need to patch over another nearby non-outlaw club to beef up their numbers. They may be an international club, but that’s just one small chapter in Ireland. That international chapter is due to the club being very well connected for their size.
I’m not sure what you’ve seen in the show that makes you think they are the size of Hell’s Angels? If they were that size, they would be solving more of their disputes with raw force. Yes, they are larger than what they show with the local, home chapter (the Redwood Originals), but from what we’ve seen, their numbers are in the hundreds at most, not thousands. I would put their size at about a tenth of the current estimates of the Hells Angels.
I will agree with you in stating that if the writers expect us to believe that the Sons are a larger club, they have done a very poor job of showing it. I also agree that even at this size, Clay and now Jax would have more pull than the character, Tony Soprano.
I should make the disclaimer that I am not a MC member. I have no affiliation with Hells Angels or any other MC. I do think that I have a decent understanding of MCs and I do consider a few club members to be friends. I ride myself and stop at places where club members occasionally hang out. It would be irresponsible for me not to have some understanding of clubs.
First I realize this is Hollywood and there must be a liberal agenda but:
White bikers care nothing for black anything, period. Also there is no way in hell that a white biker gang would pay protection from black inmates in prison, see Chino and San Quentin to name a couple. There would be no talk of changing by laws of an established club to include minorities. This will probably offend some but the truth is what it is. I belong to a national club so I speak from experience.
You know what’s remarkable ? Is how much England looks in no way like Southern California.
Love the show but my two gripes are:
1.) Clay should be dead already.
2.) Wayne Uncer having a crush on Gemma, and Gemma kinda, sorta, leading him on with it. I really wish they would have kept it a father/daughter like relationship.
The Wayne/Gemma thing is great because they both know how idiotic it is but can’t help themselves.
It jumped the shark at the end of the first season when Jax didn’t attend the funeral (I forget whose) but instead walked through it and left something on the headstone.
To me, the show jumped the shark when it was revealed that the ATF was working for the CIA. Deus ex Machina, anyone?
I’m newly introduced so I binge-watched all five seasons over about 3 days. Crazy fun and over-the-top insane.
If I could allow myself to take the time to do something so utterly pointless for my own amusement, I’d make one of those compilation videos that you see on youtube. Mine would be a compilation of all the times that Jax has said some version of “I’m not gonna let that happen…” (Of course, whatever he’s not gonna let happen inevitably happens…) Binge-watching made the frequency of that very obvious to me.
The other silly waste of time I have to stop myself from wasting is the time it would take to watch all of them again and both count the bodies as well as figure out how many, if any, episodes do NOT have a single murder or other death in them.
Here’s my big SOA question: who the fuck are they selling all those guns to? They seem to sell them at a rate not far behind the rate that drug dealers are moving pot or meth…what are thier buyers doing with them that they need to buy so many so often?
And finally, I have a very high tolerence for bad behavior in fictional entertainments, but seriously, pretty much every single major character in this show is a murderer. Most of them are serial killers. So I’m really not that emotionally wrapped up in their fates. They are genuinely bad people doing incredibly horrendous thing on a regular basis. Having said that, I did weep for Opie.
The show *was *often pretty far-fetched, but to fan-wank it:
Once you kill someone (or even just shoot them) with a gun, it’s a really bad idea to hold on to that gun. If you’re being chased by cops, it’s often a good idea to ditch the gun. And of course, if you get arrested with an illegal gun, the cops won’t be returning it. So, with all those frequent killings, chases, and arrests that took place on the show, a steady flow of guns doesn’t seem *that *out of line.
Now what does England have to do with anything?
Every time Jax says something like “I promise that’s not gonna happen” my SO shouts obscenities at the screen. I don’t know if we’ll keep watching it next season. I suspect we will, even if we groan through all the episodes, just because we’re invested in the characters at this point.
In retrospect it was proabably the trip to Ireland, but the final straw for me was the "Mega evil drug dealers were actually CIA"ending to season 4.
It’s such a strong cast though. That’s what kept me watching, plus wanting to see Clay go down and Jax get out of the gang.
I was running thru the discs pretty fast and furious, but just decided to stop after Ireland. After the last ep they ran previews showing the next season was (largely?) set in prison, and realized I didn’t care.
Season 3 while in Ireland is probably the low point of the entire series so far.
I dunno, the end of season 4 (the CIA reveal) had me ready to put my foot through the TV. They spent all season setting up the stakes the game and aligning the players…then swept all the pieces off the board. The Irish stuff was dumb, but the CIA thing was a sucker punch to the audience.