Which is the real Universal Life Church?

What’s the difference between ulc.org and ulc.net? Which one is the Universal Life Church that was existent in the 1960s and mentioned by counterculture personalities like Abbie Hoffman in Steal this Book? I’ve been to both websites, and neither of them have a history of their denomination.

Or are they both the same thing? If not, what’s the difference? From what I read at Wikipedia it seems that ulc.net is the original Universal Life Church, but then what’s ulc.org? Are they splitters?


This is a question that the ULC has been answering since 2006, when the monastery was taken over by its current management.

All the info is at http://www.ulcseminary.org/changeofsite.php.

In a nutshell, the original ULC is in Modesto, CA. Their site is http://www.ulchq.com.

ulc.org was the first ULC site up, but it was taken over by the monastery’s current management and is no longer affiliated with the original ULC at all. ulc.net was the next to have a site (Run by Kevin Andrews and is affiliate with headquarters in Modesto) and then http://www.ulcseminary.org, which I run and I am also affiliated with headquarters.

There’s a whacky guy in FL who also runs a site which he claims is the headquarters of ULC, but he’s only headquarters of himself.

On the page above, I put up a video explaining it all. Someone told me I need diagrams. :slight_smile: Hope that helps.


What I asked a few years ago. I still haven’t gotten around to it…

I never thought I’d see the day when a mail order religion from the back pages of Rolling Stone generated its own schismatics.

Thank you so much Amy. I’ve watched your video and read the page at your website. Here’s what I gathered, maybe you can correct me if I’m wrong:

There’s a person named George Freeman, who is (was?) an ordained ULC minister who had an establishment (nightclub?) in Seattle that he called the Monastery and claimed to operate under the aegis of the Universal Life Church. The Monastery was welcoming to young gays and got in trouble because of underage drinking happening there, in addition to possible underage gay sex. I assume that The Monastery in Seattle (the establishment) doesn’t exist anymore.

ulc.org was an official ULC website maintained by someone named Daniel Zimmerman until August 2006, when the domain name and website was taken over by George Freeman and/or people affiliated with him. This domain takeover is currently being litigated. The people that maintain ulc.org also maintain themonastery.org . While they claim to offer ULC ordination, they are no longer affiliated with the original ULC. The original ULC is headquartered in Modesto, California and led by President Andre Hensley, the son of ULC founder Kirby Hensley. To be an ordained ULC minister as recognized by the ULC headquartered in Modesto, California and led by Andre Hensley, one should go to ulchq.com or ulcseminary.org

Is that about right?

A few questions, if you have time:

  1. At ulcseminary.org/changeofsite.php you say “For many years, the ulc. org site was owned by Daniel Zimmerman. Many of you have had dealings with him and have formed your own opinions as to his honesty and integrity.” I don’t need to know exactly what you mean by this, but is this Daniel Zimmerman in conflict with the “official” ULC in Modesto?

  2. You say in your video that ulc.org and/or themonastery.org charges for their version of ULC ordination. But at ulc.org their website has a clickable link saying “Begin Your Free Ordination”. Have they changed their policy or do they hit you with hidden fees after you go through the process?

  3. Why not merge websites ulc.net and ulchq.com? Are they maintained by two different groups that like their own website? In My Humble Opinion, having two “official” websites adds to the confusion.

  4. What protection does the official ULC have against people who set up their own website, pretending to offer ULC ordination? Is the name ULC copyrighted or trademarked?I don’t know if those legal concepts can even apply in this situation.

  5. Who is chosen to be on the board of directors of the ULC?

  6. Suppose I wanted to become a ULC minister through ulcseminary.org. I’m a member of a Unitarian Universalist Church and an atheist. Would this prevent me from becoming a ULC minister?

Thank you again for answering my original question.

Thank you for showing me that thread, I bumped it to link to the “official” answer that was posted in this thread.

The operative word here is the real universal life church one has to labor through the official records and transcripts of how this church became what it is today a fragmented mess! . The fact is, for years the ULC was a self enriching tax scheme and seems to not have changed.
To be affiliated with Modesto means that one pays Modesto to record names on Ordinations and mail them. My relationship with Kirby Hensley goes back to 1977 see (georgefreeman.com).When ULC.org was formed, I, Daniel Chapin along with Dan Zimmerman incorporated ulc.org. As a founding vice president, I was too busy to take an active role in administrating. Amy Long was Zimmerman’s business assistant. I intervened after learning that Zimmerman and Long were going privately to swap a nonprofit corporation for a few 100,000+ dollars in order to enrich their own pockets. After looking at the facts and law it came to my attention that private parties cannot sell or profit from a nonprofit corporation. As a corporate officer, I hired an attorney here in Seattle to contact Ms. Long regarding the disputed. Issues which were numerous. Ms. Long started her own web site and duplicated the membership names of ULC.org. After Mr. Zimmerman’s emotional breakdown and trucks to blow up the park place bowl in Tucson. I received a call from the FBI inquiring into a stolen and forged $300,000 + check which was deposited our Tucson bank by Zimmerman and his codefendant. I discussed this matter with Hensley’s son Andre. I also communicated with Ms. Long who acknowledged that she was aware of criminal conduct along with Andre Hensley but neither of them failed to do anything or report it. After multiple discussions with the FBI and Federal IRS officials, our board officers officially removed Kirby Hensley’s longtime administrative assistant Dan Zimmerman from any and all control of the Monastery and ULC.org this matter has been adjudicated three courts of jurisdiction in favor of the Monastery which is headquartered now in Seattle. Counterfeiting checks and threatening to blow up a mall are ample grounds for removal of any officer in any institution. Ms. Long and her sanctioned affiliates have a history of distorting the facts. This was not a “hostile takeover”
As the record shows the official universal life church was and still is a Hensley family enterprise with surrogate affiliates who use the words “Official”, “Affiliate” “Sanctioned” and “Recognized”. Ulc.net is a for profit online book store. Amy long is her own home-church see: Quest Ministries of The Universal Life Church & Ulc Seminary, Inc.
In reality “Sanctioned” means they split bucks with the Hensley Enterprise. ULC.org is part of Universal Life Church Monastery Ministries. Our Ministries ordain in one day, more ministers than the Modesto enterprise and its two “affiliates” ordain in a month. Each month we give grants to needy organizations, we feed the hungry, and we hold large celebrations. The Monastery Ministries occupy three buildings, pay taxes and calls attention to the issues affecting our ministers and our society.

Since we have a difference of opinion here, let’s move this over to Great Debates.

General Questions Moderator

Wait, so there’s a ulc.com, ulc.net and ulc.org and they all hate each other?

By Og, they’ve become a real religion!!!


I would prefer that they call themselves “Church of Universal Life” and “Universal Church of Life” and “Church of Life - Universal.”

For more in-depth confusion, try the Wiki talk page for Universal Life Church.


#1.) Amy Smith Long has no relationship with any Universal Life Church. Andre Hensley of the ULC Modesto says specifically she is just a known site, but that she is not an authorized site.

#2.) Amy Smith Long as the Secretary of State will validate operates Quest Ministries of the Universal Life Church and the ULC Seminary, Inc.

#3.) None of Amy Smith Long’s alleged seminary courses are accredited.

#4.) Here Amy Smith Long represents herself to be a part of the Universal Life Church, yet she spews hatred and idiocies including such references as calling someone whacky. So called Church leaders do not lash out at others.

For the Real ULC, may I suggest checking into St Ignatius of Antioch who is attributed with being the founder thereof. The word Universal comes from the Greek word katholikos, and is actually the origin of the Roman Catholic Church name. Whereas still today Universal is tied in with Catholicism and Christendom.

The bottom line here is Amy Smith has no business acting as an authoritative figure with any Universal Life Church. She is a big nothing who no ULC acknowledges, an individual who simply calls others names and attacks those she feels is competitors. Her actions are a disgrace to our Churches names.


While you are both posting here, please refrain from insulting each other.

One last thing worth noting is what the US Patent and Trademark Office has on file. You will see a number of attempts, most recently those of George Martin Freeman on the Monastery Storehouse attempting to trademark the name. All such attempts are abandoned or cited as a name that directly or indirectly belongs to the Catholic Church and Christians.

Kirby started in 1959 as “Life Church” yes he incorporated as Universal Life Church in 1962, but he used Universal because of his involvement with Gabriel Green and the Universal party. Hensley used Universal unknowingly that the origin thereof was of Christian descent.

Other than the ULC in Florida, you have individuals becoming ordained that are pagan, wiccan, atheistic, satanic all by a church that uses a name that is revered, cherished and attributed to Christianity. Let these ordained Ministers be proud as they show the world of how Jesus Christ spreads his name in the most unlikely places possible, amongst and within the homes of his enemies.

Praise to our Lord Jesus Christ! http://www.ulcnetwork.com We are the true, original Universal Life Church who backs up our belief by our Christian Universal Life Church name.

You are correct, please accept my apology.

So… is your ULC the one that ordains anyone who asks? Do all three (?) ULC groups do it?

We are the largest faith based Universal Life Church in the world. Please understand size of a Church is not based on the number ordained, it is the number of followers. We have the 2nd largest faith based clergy in the world, behind the Roman Catholic Church.

The other ULC’s do not offer legal faith based ordination, they do not ordain within any respective faith. Ministers ordained through these others are afforded one thing over and above what the first amendment already allows and that is to officiate weddings. However that is not the case throughout the USA. A number of states and counties reject the other ULC’s, because they do not have a doctrine of faith.

The only faith who actually ordains Ministers is the Christian Faith. Most other faiths appoint and/or initiate. We could ordain everyone, but we choose not to, it is not our intent to deceive or to make tons of money by offering certificates that are not valid everywhere or worth the paper they are written on. Our ministry credential kit which contains a certificate, letter in good standing and a doctorate of divinity degree is the lowest online. It is the only one with a guarantee.


What’s the difference between “ordination” and “appointment” or “initiation”? What do you guarantee, exactly?