I’m not familiar with other faith’s exact procedures, I just know ordination is a term that primarily speaks of an individual who becomes a member of the clergy through a Christian Church.
Ordination is FREE, however everyone charges for Ministry Credentials and/or Minister Picture ID’s. Our guarantee is if anyone of our certificates, excluding degrees as all Church issued degrees are honorary is questioned by an authoritative figure and if the individual is denied the availability to perform services, we will refund their money in full.
I just want to say that this thread didn’t clear things up for me at all (not that I was the one who asked).
On the other hand, it’s pretty awesome that representatives from the PFJ, the JPF, and the other splitter group all found this thread within a few days and started feuding here.
You are George Freeman, involved in a legal dispute with “[Dan] Zimmerman and his codefendant”, whoever the codefendant is (it isn’t clear to me if the codefendant is Amy Long or someone else). You control ulc.org, run the Monastery Ministries, and ordain people in the “Universal Life Church Monastery Ministries” which is different than the original “Universal Life Church” as founded by Kirby Hensley. Is that about right? What is the procedure for ordination? Do you ordain anyone, and what are the fees involved?
From reading about the original Monastery in Seattle, I got the impression that it was similar to a nightclub. When you say “the Monastery Ministries occupy three buildings” - where are those buildings, and are these offices of Monastery Ministries, or places of worship, or something else?
If I get this straight, you are a Christian denomination, founded separately from the original Universal Life Church (the original church being the one founded by Kirby Hensley), but you also offer ordinations online. Is that correct?
What is the procedure for ordination, what are the fees involved, do you have to be a Christian to be ordained in what I’ll called the “Florida-based Christian ULC”?
Does Andre Hensley of the ULC Modesto say that your site (ulcnetwork.com) is an authorized site?
Who holds those records? I have no idea. But from what I’ve read in this thread so far, it seems like the original ULC, founded by Kirby Hensley, is the one now led by his son Andre Hensley, and headquartered in Modesto, CA, with the website ulchq.com . I’m going to try and reach them online and ask what they have to say about the information presented in this thread.
Reading through a lot of this material, it seems to me that all this factionalism is . . . well, if not a feature exactly, not a bug either. After all, the whole point of the ULC seems to be that any single person has just as much religious authority as anyone else. According to the Wikipedia article,
It sounds like Kirby Hensley never claimed there was anything special about himself that gave him the power to ordain other people, nor was there anything special about his organization–it was just a platform for empowering people to spread their own messages and perform their own rites such as marriages without interference. He provided the legal basis for individuals to do so and some very basic support, and that was about it. He thought of it first, but his whole point was that anyone can do the same. There certainly shouldn’t be anything special about Andre Hensley just because he’s Kirby’s son (besides the fact that he’s willing to continue the work of running the organization.)
Whatever Kirby or Andre or anyone else may have said or thought about the people who “split” from the ULC or started their own factions (especially inasmuch as it was presumably Kirby and Andre’s livelihood), the spirit of the ULC would seem to be perfectly in keeping with the idea that there should be lots of ULC organizations, and that anyone should feel free to find one that meets their needs or start another one.
Arnold - You must understand there is many Churches, Hospitals, etc., etc. with the same name or similar name. Individuals can claim to be the founder all they want, but with some their claims do not hold water. The Universal Life Church name can be traced back to 107AD, the word Universal comes from the Greek Language word katholikos. I’m sure you have heard references to the Catholic Church as the Universal Church, this is because the Catholic Church actually derived its name from the Universal (Life) Church. St Ignatius of Antioch is the first individual to refer to the Roman Church as the Universal (Life) Church. There has been many others, including a Universal Life Church in Germany.
Kirby Hensley’s version has no traditional doctrine of faith, it is a non-Christian Church that ordains anyone of any faith. Those ordained are not ordained within any faith, ordinations through this Church afford one thing over and above what the First Amendment allows, that is to serve as a wedding officiant.
With the Universal Life Church of Florida, we adhere to only the Christian Doctrine. Why? Because no other faith other than Christians ordain Ministers, all others appoint and/or initiate. The difference between us and Modesto is the fact we offer faith based ordination, all ordinations we provide are are accepted within the Christian Faith, and our Ministers can perform sacraments within the Christian Faith.
Andre Hensley has no say over our Church, this ULC in Modesto ordains followers of satan, atheists, pagans and others that we as Christians do not retain fellowship with. Our ten commandments and our Bible strictly prohibit such and we face severe consequences for doing such.
As with all Churches throughout the world, ordination is free, but we do charge for ministry credentials.
1.) Ministry Credential Packets…These include an unlimited number of the ordination certificate and letters in good standing, which is combined within the certificate. Others charge individually for both and do not supply an unlimited quantity available upon request. In addition we include a Doctorate of Divinity. Yes it is Honorary. However NO Church in the USA provides anything but Honorary Degrees, it is the same degree had by Dr Billy Graham, Dr Oral Roberts and others. We charge $39.95, and again I point out we do not charge $25 for every letter in good standing.
2.) We Require a Minister Picture ID Card…Wedding Ministers do not need such, however real faith based ministers are required by law enforcement, DOC, hospitals, nursing homes and many others to have an endorsed Minister Picture ID Card. Our ID Cards are provided by the same source where law enforcement, hospitals, and US Government offices ascertain there’s. We want our Ministers to be professional and to look professional. Ministers can choose from a Basic Card at $24.95 verses a card that provides a background check endorsement for $39.95.
I will point out we do charge an annual renewal and every Church does, they may use other terminology. For example Letters in Good Standing are only good one year from the date of issuance. So instead of using the word renewal, they use the word repurchase. Legal Picture ID Cards must also be renewed, each state has their own renewal requirements, it could be a year, every four perhaps every six or eight years. We include our ID Card renewals annually.
Why do we renew and weed out the in-actives? Easy Answer, we all know what a ream of 500 sheets of paper looks like. By law every ordination must be saved in hard copy. How many football fields, do you think it would take to hold 20 million ordained ministers hard copy ordination records?
Andre Hensley will claim we are doing a Hostile Takeover. But as Alan Smithee points out, the Hensley’s nor anyone can prevent anyone from starting their own ULC. This is a very good observation and accurate.
Arnold, I am sorry, but know we would not ordain you. I believe for someone to be a leader, they need to be an expert in what it is they lead. While I may not be a Christian Scholar, I can hold my own with most, but with atheism I do not have sufficient knowledge. Ordination comes from an individual of stature, hierarchy within the Church.
All right then. No ulcnetwork.com ordinations for non-Christians.
I e-mailed Andre Hensley (from ulchq.com) and here’s what he had to say:
[ul][li]ulchq.com and ulc.net are the two sites officially recognized by the original ULC in Modesto.[/li][li]ulcseminary.org (see post 2) is a site that is not an official ULC site but the owner has a “good working relationship” with the original ULC.[/li][li]ulc.org used to be an official ULC site, but isn’t anymore, since August 2006. Universal Life Church Monastery (owners of ulc.org - see post 7) is not affiliated with the original ULC and has only been ordaining since September 2006.[/li][*]ulcnetwork.com (see post 14 and subsequent posts by the same user) is a Christian ULC, also independent of the original ULC.[/ul]
I find very weak the claim that Hensley had no business changing the name of his group from “Life Church” to “Universal Life Church” in 1962 because the Catholic Church had some sort of claim to the word “Universal” from back in the 1st century, and that because your branch is somewhat vaguely Catholic in nature you can claim that yours is the real Universal Life Church even though you founded yours quite a bit after he founded his. It reminds me somewhat of modern “druids” claiming ancient ties that just don’t exist in reality.
Just because Saint Ignatius is said to have coined the Greek word katholikos(meaning “universal”) back in 107 AD to describe the Catholic Church doesn’t mean that only organizations that have ties, however tenuous, to that Church can legitimately use that word in their name. The last time I looked Universal Studios wasn’t Catholic institution, and if the Catholic Church started up their own “Universal Studio” they couldn’t claim that theirs was the real one and the other one wasn’t.
You are absolutely correct, the Universal Life Church name is not trademarked, nor can it ever be trademarked. Anyone can use the name or any portion thereof. Nor can anyone claim to be founder of the name.
Universal one of its definitions is catholic, but that doesn’t mean only catholics or Christians are privy to its use. I do not know how atheists or other faiths would view being ordained by any organization using a word that is defined catholic or Christian, I would assume they would not be too thrilled by it. That would be an interesting question as to how others of other faiths may view the catholic or Christian connection?
I was curious about the beliefs of your denomination, so I will venture to ask.
What differentiates Universal Life Church doctrine from other Christian doctrines?
For example, can you describe your church’s beliefs concerning
[ul][li]Holy Trinity[/li][li]Transubstantiation[/li][li]Assumption of Mary, and her position as Queen of Heaven and Mother of the Church[/li][li]Beatification[/li][/ul]
What is your creed?
What of these sacraments do you recognize?
Baptism, Confession, Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, Extreme Unction, Ordination
What is your denomination’s position on various “controversial” social issues?
[ul][li]abortion[/li][li]ordination of women[/li][li]celibacy of the clergy[/li][li]same sex marriage[/li][li]homosexuality[/li][/ul]
