Whining friend who won't listen to advice

The BBQ Pit
1

I love my friends dearly. But one of my best friends, we’ll call her M, is about do drive me off the deep end. She just got out of an emotionally abusive relationship, which she refuses, even, now, to end. Even though he broke up with her. And has done tons and tons of bastardly things to her. I hate the guy, he’s an asshole, and have been listening to her whine and cry to me, for the past few years, about how he hurts her. But she won’t listen to me, and she gets upset when I’m not pleasant to him. He’s nicknamed me “The Bitch”, btw, because I’m not complacent and put up with his bullshit. She sits there and does nothing to defend me when he insults me. Meanwhile, I stand up for her, about everything. Even when she’s wrong. We went to the mall yesterday, with a guy which I’ve known for 6 years, and she only met that day. Now, this guy, he’s very suave. VERY. I know this because I’ve fallen for him numerous times in the past, and I know how easily he controls women. They were all over each other at the mall, even in the presence of her mother. Which is disrespectful, and distastful. They were making out in the car, even, which is also disrespectful, for several reasons. The two of them together doesn’t bother me. I like the guy a lot, we’ve always been close. But her acting slutty DOES bother me. And I’m tired of her bitching about how guys treat her, when she just sits and takes it, and doesn’t do anything about it, except whine to me. She even got mad at me, awhile ago, because I was arguing with Chad and wasn’t just going to agree with everything he says. I’m considering disowning her, and would’ve done so a long time ago if I didn’t think she needed me. She still does, really, but I am SOOOOO fucking tired of listening to her whine about the bed she made and how she doesn’t want to lay in it. We all make mistakes, but she’s ASKING for bullshit, and then whines about it.

Gah. Help.

2

Why does she need you?

Why are you letting her live rent-free in your head?

Detach with love and respect, but if she wants to continue behaving in a certain way, she’ll have to experience the consequences. A friend’s job is not to step between another person and her consequences. IMHO

3

Just a reminder of what you probably already know: You can’t change her. You can only change yourself. Your friend does have a problem but it is her problem to deal with. You can’t fix her.

You have a choice to make:

  1. Keep her as a friend and put up with her whining without saying anything.

  2. Keep her as a friend and tell her that you are setting some boundaries on what you will put up with from her. Then stick to it consistently!

  3. Chose to exclude yourself from her presence.

I wish you luck whatever your choice is. You just can’t make yourself responsible for someone else’s life. It isn’t healthy for you or her.

Maybe others can come up with other options.

4

Yeah I know, which is why I’ve tolerated it thus far. I’m just now balanced on whether giving her an ultimatum would work with her, and make her realize what she’s doing. She’s stubborn like I am, so I’m not sure. The one thing I really don’t like about most people, is how they willingly do something, fully knowing the consequences, then whine, which is why I’ve about had it with her. Thanks. If anyone else has any thoughts, please share.

5

Oops I didn’t see Qadgop’s post. She needs me because she has lost most of her friends due to Chad’s idiocy. She let her life get so enwrapped in him, that all her friends (besides me) are friends of his as well. And since they’re fighting… you get the idea. I’m the only honest friend she has, really, and that’s why I really really don’t want to stop being friends with her, or do anything that could possibly jeopardize the friendship, unless I have to. I know how much it’ll hurt her, and she’s already hurt rather badly, and while she doesn’t have my pity for that, since she did ask for it, I still don’t want to hurt her further. I’m just debating as to whether disowning her will actually help or hurt her.

6

I had a friend exactly like that once. She was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a man who was not only her boss, but also married – talk about inappropriate! I tried listening and offering advice (when asked – which was every time she cried about how he was treating her), only to be ignored in favor of sticking around for more abuse.

Finally, one day I simply laid it on the line. The subject was forevermore off limits. I made it very clear that so long as she chose, knowingly, to continue in a relationship that was that destructive, she deserved every bit of abuse she set herself up for. In light of that, I had no interest in hearing her complain about it any longer. My last bit of advice was, “if you’re that miserable, leave. But if you stay, shut up about how awful it is.” I then told her that the only exception would be the moment she was ready to rid herself of him completely – and permanently – to let me know and I’d help her in any way I could to get over him.

That was the last time she brought the subject up.

I would, however, like to add the caveat that we were both adults in our late 20s. You sound a bit younger than that from your posts. Assuming that I’m correct in that assessment, one thing I’d recommend to you is that you encourage her to talk to a school counsellor or another trusted adult. If she’s a teenage girl, as I suspect she is, this kind of behaviour pattern is setting her up for a world of hurt down the road. It sounds like there are some serious self-esteem issues at play here and she would benefit greatly from counselling.

But if she won’t help herself, there’s absolutely nothing you can do to make her stop this behaviour. In fact, if it’s tearing you up this much inside to consider abandoning her, then you should speak to a counsellor, yourself. And if you really, really don’t want to do that, then talk to a teacher you like, or better yet, talk to your mom.

Good luck and I hope everything works out ok for you and your friend.

7

Thanks. She’s 17, I’m technically younger than her, but I’ve always been more of a mother to her, since her mother isn’t all that mothery-ish. I’m considering doing that, I’m just debating as to whether it’ll WORK or not. There’s a pretty good chance, if I stop being friends with her, she won’t change, she’ll just be even more miserable because she doesn’t have any good friends left to support her. Given her stubborn nature, I’m pretty sure that is what would happen. I’m hoping that when I talk with her about it, she’ll realize how serious I am about being tired of listening to it. I suppose I’ll try just talking to her about it. Technically, at the moment, they’re broken up, but from the way they both act, they might as well be together. I’ve told her that there’s no way she’ll get over him, unless she actually separates herself from him, and stops spending time with him, and she knows I’m right, but she still spends time with him. I’m quite sure that an ultimatum wouldn’t work, which is why I don’t want to, but I think it may be necessary, for my own sanity. I’m a rather strong minded person, and I speak with my feet, hence my botherance at her sideways decisions. My mother knows about the situation already, but my mother isn’t exactly the queen of relationships, and not the sort of person one looks to for advice. Hopefully, she’ll listen to me. And actually act on it. I know she doesn’t like being told what to do, and neither do I, which is another reason it won’t work. But I do need to save my sanity. I’ve had to threaten friends with disowning before, but they weren’t like M, she’s stubborn, and it’ll most likely backfire, and make her more likely to continue her behavior. I don’t think a counselor would help, and we’re both currently homeschooled (both of us are very social, don’t misunderstand my mention of this, it’s just so that you know we don’t have school counselors). Hopefully, her move to California will go through (her father is military, and they’re being restationed), and all of this will be behind her. Ranting about it to you guys has helped, thanks.

8

This is one of the most frustrating situations that you can be in. I know. I’m living in one now.

A relative of mine, who I’ll call “Kathy” has worn thin the patience of our entire family. Kathy was in a terrible, emotionally (and occasionally physically) abusive marriage. For five years, the family listened to her complaints, and gave advice, which Kathy pointedly ignored. Her twenty year old son still lives with her, and has constantly been in trouble with the law. He’s a drug addict, and now he has his pregnant girlfriend * and her sister * living in Kathy’s house. He refuses to work, and Kathy constantly has to bail him out of jail. She’s also paid for his rehab three times.

Kathy finally divorced her husband, but will do nothing about the son. The entire family has urged her just to throw him out and force him to fend for himself. We’ve told her time and again that unless he finally sees the consequences of his actions without Kathy there to bail him out, he’ll never change. All Kathy will do about the situation is call up family members and complain about what her son is doing. Frankly, no one wants to hear it any more. (In fact, that’s what I told her the last time she called.)

To put it bluntly, as my grandmother would, “Either shit, or get off the pot!”

9

Good luck with things, it’s so frustrating.

10

Having been on the other side of things, I can offer a different perspective. See if you can find a counselor that works with battered women, and get help to understand their mentality. You’re right, an ultimatum won’t work. Urge her to go to the same counselor as you.

She desperately needs counseling. She needs to learn what it is about herself that is making her suceptible to abusive relationships. Once you understand what makes her tick, you will be better equipped to stay sane, and to help her. Once she can see the pattern an abusive relationship takes, she can begin to re-build her self esteem. Once she is healthy again, she can avoid getting into the situations in the first place, or recognize them sooner and get out of them quickly.

I had to learn what it was about myself that made me more likely to get into an abusive relationship. It’s almost a systemic weakness to a virus. Once I learned to recognize the symptoms of a sick relationship I was better equipped to get out of one. I got out of an abusive marriage, and about a year later got involved with an abuser again. It took 8 years to get out of the marriage, and less than 3 months to get away from the second abuser. I recognized the danger within a month, and began planning my safe escape. (These can take some time to pull off.)
I can sympathize with you, I have a friend who until recently was in an abusive marriage. Sometimes though, all you can do is listen to your friend. You can’t make her change, or leave him. All you can do is listen, and tell her you believe she deserves/is better than that. Believe it or not it does help. Investing in a punching bag might help too. Every time she tells you more crap he’s done, go punch the crap out of the bag, maybe even envision his face as you do it.

I’ll be thinking of you both. Good Luck.

11

Thanks- I’m considering it, seriously. Her ex/boyfriend/obnoxious male in this picture isn’t physically abusive, I should add- he’s slimy, but not THAT slimy. If that were that case, I’d have sought the law’s involvement, IMMEDIATELY. A punching bag sounds like a good idea. M knows I protest their involvement, but it’s annoying her, I know it is, she was mad at me the other day for arguing with him, and she very clearly said that she doesn’t want to listen to me dissing him. Which is why it’s come to this point… she’ll hear my mind the next time I see her, probably. Last night, she was at J’s party, unsupervised by anyone who knows her even reasonably well, so I’ll be wishing that she doesn’t land into trouble, THEN I’ll lay it into her.

12

J is the guy who she was being overly-close with the other day.

13

To me, that’s the perfect opening for the response “Well, I don’t want to listen to you whining about how he treats you.”

Why don’t you write her a letter explaining how you feel about this and why? After you write it, don’t print it out but save it and reread/edit it the next day. Then print the sucker out. Don’t email or mail it to her, but invite her over to have a sit down and hand it to her and discuss it with her after she’s read it. It sounds to me like you’re on the cusp of making an ultimatum to her. Tough love is hard.

14

I tried that before, didn’t sink in with her. Perhaps I’ll try it again. I talked to the boy, J, and he apologized for disrespecting M’s mother and I like that, and promised it wouldn’t happen again. M, however, I haven’t spoken to, and she hasn’t called yet.

15

I used to work in a domestic violence shelter. In my situation with “Kathy” I managed to get her to speak with one of my former collegues, but it didn’t help.

That was the most frustrating part of my job. Quite a few times, I grew very attached to the women who lived in the shelter. I begged a few of them in tears not to go back, but they wouldn’t listen. I had to learn to accept that I could have no influence over their decisions: the battered woman had to have an epiphany within herself before she could finally break free.

Even as a trained counselor, my frustration sometimes gets the better of me when dealing with battered women. If you care about a person, it’s even more difficult. Several times, I’ve wanted to grab “Kathy” and try to shake some sense into her. I’m ashamed of it, but more than anything, I want her to * see * reality. You can lead a horse to water . . . etc. Patience is the hardest thing, especially when you’re dealing with a dangerous situation.

16

I’ll add, don’t diss him in front of her. Grit your teeth, and use politeness as a wall between you and him. Don’t give him any more courtesy than you would a stranger though. Dissing him will only make her cling to him harder. She knows you don’t like him, and why. She thinks she can save him, maybe. That’s one reason the women stay. To try and help them “get better”. Nursing/mothering syndrome.

Another reason, is that for some reason that’s all they’ve seen, and all they think they are worthy of. Whatever it is, dissing him is counterproductive. Don’t let him treat you like shit, do stand up for yourself. Just look him in the eye, tell him what he did/said was wrong and that you want an apology, because you don’t put up with that crap. Be succint. If he won’t apologize, don’t push it. Just the fact that you looked them in the eyes and told them off is often enough to make them walk with their tails tucked between their legs for a while.

Tell her she’s worth more than the treatment she’s getting, but don’t say he’s a slimeball for giving it. I know it’s VERY hard to do, but it works. Listen to her, hug her, tell her you believe in her. If you need to, take a “vacation” from her. Let her know that it isn’t her, that you are just stressed and need a little break. You know it’s a time out from the stress of listening,it would hurt her if you told her so.

She knows it’s a bad situation, and she hasn’t found the strength and courage to get out of it yet. Maybe she’s not got fed up enough with it yet too. She may honestly believe she alone can be his saving grace. I will think of you both, and pray.

17

Another thing, abusive relationships escalate. Sometimes it’s slow, sometimes very fast. It starts with emotional/verbal abuse and goes on from there. For instance refusing sex just to hurt them, or insisting on it because “it’s your duty”. This relationship may indeed disentegrate into physical violence. It’s a downhill slope, once the verbal/emotional abuse has begun. All too often, the abuser begins to believe what they are spewing, and to treat their partner accordingly.

18

Thanks, I’ll try to.

19

Some people will always get into emotionally abusive relationships, somehow they must believe they deserve it.

Talking them out of it seldom, if ever works. They are hard wired to have their partner treat them like dirt.

The only way to preserve your sanity is to cut off all contact.

20

With all due respect,** Blalron ** you are quite mistaken.

If you had taken the time to read the responses to the OP, you would have seen this. It isn’t any more “hardwired” into a person to be drawn to an abusive relationship than guys “needing to screw everything in sight”. It’s not something the person is born with, like mental illness or diabetes. It happens because of life events. Sometimes the person saw their mother treated this way, and so they think this is how it should be. Sometimes they are raped as a young teenager, (like I was) and it damages their self esteem. Whatever it is, it is most definately NOT “hardwired” into them, and is something that can be recovered from. It takes time, counseling, hard work on the recoverer’s part, and encouragement from their support system.

I’ll concede that some people never do recover from it, or re-lapse. Some of them end up dying at their abuser’s hands. Many more recover, and go on to lead productive lives.

I’ve been on both sides of this situation, and I know the subject I’m talking about well. Your advice was ill conceived, and thoughtless. Part of being human, is to actually care about your friends, and to help them strive to do well in their lives. Would you say the same thing about someone whose friend was depressed and suicidal? If you would, then it seems to me you don’t have many close friends.

Sometimes the only thing you can do, is to step away for a while. I’ve had to do this with my friend, but I CAME BACK because I cared about her, and know I am her support system. I also came back, because I realized her husband was trying to get rid of her support system, so she would stay with him. It’s part of their manipulation. They are obnoxious to the friends to get them to break off the friendships, so they have more control over their “victim”. (I am not a victim, I’m a survivor.)

Support systems are important, and we nearly all have them in some form or another. There are a very few who do not, but they are not common at all. We are social creatures. Please, don’t dump your friend because you feel that somehow she can’t get better. It may seem that way to you, but never give up on her. It does mean a lot, to know that there is someone who isn’t giving up on you. It gives you courage to try. If she won’t go to counseling, you still should. It will help you better understand why this is happening.

It will also help you if you someday get snared by an abuser. It can happen to perfectly normal people too, the guy is really sweet at first, and their true colors don’t show until later. By then, energy has been invested into the relationship, and likely he’s erroded enough of her self esteem that she stays, “trying to work it out”. There are cases, where this has happened. The person witnessed no abuse between their parent’s, was not raped or otherwise abused, etc. They just had the misfortune to choose to date a really sweet guy who was an abuser in disguise. This is uncommon though.

Still, since your friend is in an abusive relationship, it would not hurt to learn about them to arm yourself. Do what you can to learn about this, so you can be stronger. She has to choose to get better, and take the steps to do so. You can’t “save” her, and “make” her get better. You can help her want it, and encourage her in her efforts to accomplish it.

The point I’m making is, it isn’t something that can’t be recovered from. No more than drug or alcohol addiction. Some alcoholics never really quit, and die from it. Others quit, and never look back.

Good Luck. Blessings on you, and her.