What? Me no compr…ohhhhh. You’re winking at me. YES. I UNDERSTAND. Everyone, allow me to translate. Marley23 is saying that an irrational racist condescension is mildly superior in some way to an irrational racist vilification. It doesn’t make it okay, but he does “understand” it. Wink wink. You see, it’s WHITE CODE for why he thinks white people and black people should be treated a little differently. Not alot differently, but, you know, a little.
How did I know this?
As Ms Webster said to her husband, “Just what do you mean by that?”. :dubious:
Well there’s this for one. Not exactly off to an enlightened and tolerant start.
Just to clarify, I mean Weirddave not Sampiro , in answer to Dave’s question above.
Your argument is good, but you ignored a critical difference between the rich/poor and black/white continua - you have some control over whether you’re rich or poor (especially in America). You have no control over whether you’re black or white (unless you’re Michael Jackson).
And if I had done either of those things, you’d have a point. Since I didn’t, I’m still looking for one.
Oooh, ooh, I know - it’s because you have the magical power to pull large objects out of your ass? If so, you must be, like, the David Copperfield of ass. Have you got a spare yacht up there by chance?
Here’s the actual deal, if you’re interested in finding out what I’m think rather than searching for a way to “win” by concluding that I’m a racist. (Because, if you remember, this is about groups and not race, which I tried to emphasize by my repeated references to gays, who can belong to any race, as well as the more jokey reference to polka lovers and vegetarians, and the comment about Jews Asians and women. Race is one kind of group but people have always been separated into an endless number of groups.)
Did you read those posts, by the way? I saw you posted earlier, but you seem to have put all your energy into making up names to call people instead of reading for comprehension. Does that save time?
With regard to race, I think everybody’s equal and race is a social delusion. I don’t believe in treating people differently based on what they look like, or what their gender or orientation is. This clears up the statement “it’s ridiculous to be proud of something that really has nothing to do with you, and which you didn’t achieve in any way,” right? Good. I know that wasn’t the complicated part, so…
Here’s the thing that apparently got me into hot water: while I think these accidents of birth are a ridiculous thing to be proud of, I’m also willing to be sympathetic to people’s circumstances. You can call that condescending if you want to be wrong and a douchebag, but condescending is about expecting less from people. I don’t have lower standards for other people, but I do try to understand that different people have different experiences. That’s why I made the effort to explain that I understand why some women, or gays, or black people, and so on, take pride in belonging to those groups. It’s not because I think less of them, it’s because I know they have experiences regarding discrimination that I, with a few really tiny exceptions, have not.
You, and some other people on this board in my experience, are making a virtue of holding everybody to the same standard without sympathy and without regard to the things that make people different. I think that’s a bad idea- although it does lead to lots of great chances moral posturing and condemning people. Yummy! Everyone else is SOOO stupid! Equality shouldn’t be confused with sameness, and I’ve got no particular desire to hold everybody in the world to the same standards I try to hold myself to. They get along fine without my judging them, and they don’t give a fuck what I think, so what’s the point?
You can “Say It Loud! (I’m Black and I’m Proud)” and “The Turner Diaries” commit the same offense of dividing people by race and that they are morally indistinguishable, but I wouldn’t say that, because I’d sound like a flaming moron. You sound like you have a different take on that. I hope you’re enjoying being an idiot. Especially since you managed to boil down everything I said to being about race when it clearly never was. I only mentioned gays about half a dozen times. Apparently you think they’re invisible. 
Answer these questions Yes or No only please:
Did you know that I am a gay man before you made the comments?
Did you deliberately use the word “faggot” rather than gay to offend me?
Are you a gay man (and thus able to neutralize the use of that word)?
Were you aware that I had an embarassing emotional meltdown when my mother was dying?
Did you deliberately mention my “dead mothers” to personally offend me by reminding me of this incident and what you know to be or have been an extremely personal sore point?
Had I used any type of hatespeech as most would define it about you?
Had I deliberately invoked any painful and or embarassing memory of yours or deliberately insulted any member of your family (remembering for this that I did not and do not know anything about your own military service or that of your relatives)?
Would you have used the word faggot if arguing with a straight StraightDoper?
Did you then defend your use of the word faggot and the mentioning of my mother in a deliberately-to-offend context as apropos for what was, essentially, a political and philosophical disagreement that had not been taken to the level of the personal?
If your answers are
then how in hell can you claim you were not calling me a faggot (however roundabout it may have been)?
Fuck you it wasn’t personal. I’ve told you again and again that your casual dismissal of POWs and MIAs and your outright mocking of people who remember them was profoundly personally offensive to me. Your response is “No it’s not” and that hasn’t changed. YOU DON’T GET TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.
In any event, I refuse to assist you in your quest to play the martyr, I will not cater to your need to feel persecuted. You can scream “You called me a faggot and insulted my mother” until the cows come home, but that does not make it true. Repeat it until your blue in the face, shout it from the rooftops, tattoo it on your ass, I don’t care, it’s just not true. If you want to puff up into a big ball of outrage and anger because I “called you a faggot”, be my guest, but it will be no truer the thousandth time you say it than it was the first, I’d suggest you find something productive to do with your life like sorting socks.
How the FUCK can you seriously say that referencing my mothers’ death specifically to offend me wasn’t personal?
You are, in addition to being a stupid trolling asswipe, undoubtedly the biggest hypocrite I’ve ever encountered on the Dope. In terms of morality and decency you would have to aspire to be a snarker. They are absolutely and unequivocally your betters, for at least they don’t PRETEND to be anything other than assholes- there’s some respect and honesty in that.
Hijack concluded, carry on.
No, but he does get to point and laugh at you for being an over-sensitive drama queen.
This would be more convincing if it weren’t immediatly preceded by a paragraph in which you instruct someone else on what they really meant. I guess assigning meaning to other people’s statements, regardless of their explicit denials of said meaning, is something only you get to do?
Not at all, but there is a difference between saying “That offended me” and “You did such and such”, when it is plain in print that I did no such thing. In addition, Sampiro has continually refused to even acknowledge that someone could be personally offended by his remarks, denying that such was even possible in spite of the fact that I told him I was personally offended while I have already apologized to him for offending him and clarified multiple times exactly what and why I was saying. He’s determined to have a screaming hissey fit of outrage, snarling and insulting me willy nilly and using LARGE TYPE to display his anger, and I am simply refusing to have any of it. If he wants to meltdown over some imagined slight, he can knock himself out. I’ll treat him the same way I treat my 3 year old when he has a temper tantrum: by ignoring it, even if inside I do find it slightly amusing.
You actually think you’re the mature, reasonable adult in this confrontation?
Fascinating.
I AM the mature, reasonable adult in this confrontation. I find it fascinating that you would think otherwise, because if you reread all of the posts by both of us WRT this dispute, one of us is foaming at the mouth, and the other is responding calmly and with facts. I ain’t the one foaming at the mouth.
Heh. Sure, dave. Whatever you say. Your reaction to Sampiro’s original post in the MIA thread? Totally mature. Comparing it to calling someone a faggot? Absolutely reasonable. Harping on it over and over after Sampiro’s repeated clarifications? Truly, the adult thing to do.
I can’t imagine what I was thinking.
Please quote where I called someone a faggot. Sampiro hasn’t been able to yet, maybe you’ll have better luck.
You might want to take a second crack at read my post, sport.
Ahh, my mistake. So now it’s your job to determine when someone is allowed to be personally offended, and I’m not allowed, is that it?
I find this very weird, as it was not that long ago that in defending his self-identification as a Democrat, weirddave offered up that he was supportive of those who self-identify as homosexual.
Nah, I wouldn’t want that job. The paycheck is far too niggardly.
I’m not sure why anything in this flap would lead you to believe that I’m not.