Who's more honorable in relationships, men or women?

[miss_elizabeth]

@Untoward_Parable

Unfortunately many stereotypes are in general true. I have no problem with tendencies have exceptions. I have known plenty of women to operate under different motivations and behaviors.

Funny thing is that in the right circumstance when people aren’t being defensive women will make this case for me. Especially the independent non-sterotype types.

Women tend to wear makeup. Women tend to have longer hair. Stereotypes, but true as anything.

Women tend to wear makeup. Women tend to have longer hair. *Women tend to be whores. *

Hm… one of these is different somehow…

[Laggard]

OP: You are wrong and are simply digging yourself a giant hole that you will never crawl your way out of.

Kindly ask the mods to close your mistake and then hope it sinks back to the bottom, never to be seen in the light of day again.

[Untoward_Parable]

@miss_elizabeth

So?! What is the point? How on earth is one more “honorable” than the other? This is utterly asinine. You act is though you conclusions are obvious- they aren’t. Your opinion is dumb.

Going out with a disgusting looking guy with his money being the deciding factor is disgusting and dishonorable. Going out with a cute woman with her cuteness being the deciding factor is not disgusting or dishonorable.

That this is hard to accept indicates your location is Crazyland, Uzbekiwhoozits

[Candyman74]

@Untoward_Parable

Let me preface this by saying that I consider myself a feminist. Women should get equal pay, be treated as equals, be able to be in the military in any role, are just as intelligent, and should not have to be submissive in any way shape or form. I like strong independent women with unique qualities. In fact the 50’s traditional(self-oppressing) woman is the one I’m least attracted to. (Also I’ve gotten plenty, get plenty have had very long term monogamous relationships. I am not bitter, just disappointed.)

However, in the US at least where I live and I get the impression is is how it is everywhere there seem to me to be a great number of disparities in the behavior of men and women in relationships.

These are generalities, please don’t argue back by saying “I don’t do this.” or “Not all of X do this.” I’m looking for general trends to critique not exceptions disproving the rules.

A man is usually straightforward and attracted to a woman because of her looks and personality. A woman on the other hand will be attracted to a man because of how successful he is more than his looks or personality, even to the point where she’ll have relationships with some pretty awful guys and stick with them for status and/or security. Guys will go out with the inverse woman for awhile but then leave a sinking ship when he realizes she’s all looks and nothing else.

A man will usually be more casual than a woman, just wanting to have a good time where the woman throws down commitment requirements to proceed.

A woman is defended socially in being angry at a boyfriend or husband who goes out with friends where the man won’t usually and if he did he’d be considered a jealous douche.

If a man and woman get pregnant but aren’t mutually committed the woman can take the baby to term and demand marriage or child support. The guy only has the condom to help him out there, and those do fail just fine, and if the couple doesn’t use one well it’s both of their choice unless something horrible is going on.

Men will generally be honest and openly pursue women he finds attractive. Women generally will set lures out and hope to be pursued but will generally not go for any man just because he’s attractive and has a good personality. A man generally has to fit into specific criteria for the woman even to see him as anything but a nuisance.

Theres plenty more I suppose but it’s a good start.

I don’t think you are a feminist. You have some weird opinions about women.

[miss_elizabeth]

@Untoward_Parable

Going out with a disgusting looking guy with his money being the deciding factor is disgusting and dishonorable. Going out with a cute woman with her cuteness being the deciding factor is not disgusting or dishonorable.

WHY?

ETA: he’s obviously not a feminist, at least not in any way that real feminists would accept.

[Strassia]

I don’t think you are using the words shallow and honor correctly. Someone (male or female) who is only looking good looks or high status are being shallow. But if one person rates status above looks that does not make them shallow.

Everyone has a multidimensional, largely unconscious, mate selection strategy that changes depending on circumstances. Good looks can make up for less than stellar intelligence and vice versa. Someone looking for a casual hookup is going to rate looks and attitude higher than status.

Also note that there are social factors involved. Men in many locations are looked down on if they have lower incomes than their mates. Women, on the other hand are thought of negatively if they have a higher social standing than their mate.

Honor is also very dependent on society. Does a man who stays home and takes care of children lose honor? Even in the U.S. many still think it does. That means if the woman has a better income children are going to cost a lot more because her career will take the hit. If a guy delivering pizza marries a woman executive, she can’t stay home and raise children without taking a huge cut in lifestyle.

And no, considering economic issues when choosing a mate does not make a woman (or a man) a whore.

FYI, when women are economically independent, they start rating looks higher than income. In fact, the preferences of rich women seem look almost the same as those of men.

[Bloodless_Turnip]

I think the OP has some grudges he’s trying to deal with.

We get it OP, you think women are whores. Okay, can we move on now?

[perfectparanoia]

@Untoward_Parable

Unfortunately many stereotypes are in general true.

So, black people are sneaky. Jews are cheap. Orientals can’t drive.

There is one thing to have a neutral trait that is common (women are more likely to be short, wear makeup and have long hair than men).

Asserting that we are the less honourable sex in relationships is not a neutral trait. It is an insult. All the women I know strive to be good people and honest in all their discourses ESPECIALLY those with their spouse. IMHO, men are the same way.

[Untoward_Parable]

@Laggard

Isn’t being attracted to someone for their looks nothing more than an “animal instinct?”

animal instinct doesn’t make sometime good or bad.

[Untoward_Parable]

@Superfluous_Parentheses

If that’s true (cite? maybe?) - why is it disturbing? I also note that you are implying that men think personality is more important than looks, while women apparently put more ‘practical’ aspects like wealth and status above both - is that what you really think is going on?

Personality is more important for me, but no I think looks are more important for most guys, Which is fine. Wherever women place it, if it’s to any strong degree it’s reprehensible. (I am upper middle class by the way, own my own home, have no debt, a medical career, these things are not making me a dog in this fight)

[Strassia]

@Untoward_Parable

Going out with a disgusting looking guy with his money being the deciding factor is disgusting and dishonorable. Going out with a cute woman with her cuteness being the deciding factor is not disgusting or dishonorable.

So you are saying there is nothing wrong with going out with a woman with no redeeming qualities at all except being good looking. A guy who dates a stupid, petty, immature, mean, and all around unpleasant human being who happens to have good skin, nice hair, and shapely breasts is acting properly?

Look, I think everyone can agree that if a woman is only dating a man for his money she is shallow. But a man that only dates women for their looks is equally shallow.

[Untoward_Parable]

@miss_elizabeth

Let me put it simply.

Your assertions? They have no merits.

So, we’re only left with attack. Sorry. If you don’t like it, come up with ideas that aren’t patently stupid.

If you feel that way, then go away, there is nothing productive or even in the spirit of the forum rules about you insulting someone because you disagree with them.

[Superfluous_Parentheses]

@Untoward_Parable

Personality is more important for me, but no I think looks are more important for most guys, Which is fine. Wherever women place it, if it’s to any strong degree it’s reprehensible. (I am upper middle class by the way, own my own home, have no debt, a medical career, these things are not making me a dog in this fight)

Have you considered the possibility that you in fact do not have an attractive personality?

[Untoward_Parable]

@perfectparanoia

Bullshit. That’s like saying you are not racist and then making generalizations about each race.

(I should leave now. I am merely getting more pissed off. sorry.)

You can make generalizations about cultures which often concentrate in races without being a racist. (Sociologists do this all the time, sometimes there are even negative and positive attributes highlighted) Asians are better at making rice generally than whites. I guess that must be racist lol. Black Americans tend to dance better than Asian Americans. So racist lol. Hispanics tend to have more renal and hepatic issues. (That’s in my medical books, they must be racist too)

Being a misogynist means you think women are inferior to men. I do not.

[miss_elizabeth]

@Untoward_Parable

If you feel that way, then go away, there is nothing productive or even in the spirit of the forum rules about you insulting someone because you disagree with them.

I’m insulting your ideas, not you. And that is allowed. And I can post where I want, and will do so, thank you very much.

Also, I don’t so much “disagree with you” as “think you have disgusting, backwards, harmful ideas about women” and I consider it both a pleasure and a duty to call ignorance like that out. Especially on this message board. It’s sort of in the charter.

[miss_elizabeth]

@Untoward_Parable

Being a misogynist means you think women are inferior to men. I do not.

Being a misogynist can also mean you hate and fear women, such as when a person considers most women to be whores. In other words, you.

[Untoward_Parable]

@Superfluous_Parentheses

Your concept of honor is childish, your ideas about men are purely self-serving and your ideas about women are disgusting.

my concept of honor being chldish: insult instead of argument, ideas of men being self serving: Maybe my ideas of men in relationships, but in other areas I think men are pretty awful to deal with: illogical, territorial, inflexible, hypermasculine.

Youre right though I do have some pretty disgusting ideas about women.. mmm.

[overlyverbose]

OP, if you came here just to have people agree with you, you’ve come to the wrong place. I also fail to see any “debate” in what you’re saying. You’ve clearly formed an opinion and are not planning to change it or consider the validity of anyone’s thoughts that may differ from your own.

Plus, since you started your argument your criteria for shallowness and honor seem to have narrowed from “women are dishonorable because they’re liars and use shallow criteria for choosing a mate” to “women are dishonorable because I think they are.” If you’re going to harp about honesty, have the, ahem, honor to admit that you just think women are dishonorable and shallow for no other reason than that you say so.

[Untoward_Parable]

@Bloodless_Turnip

So being interested in the financial welfare of your offspring is being a whore. Yet, being attracted to a woman based only on her physical appearance is not being a whore.

Is this correct?

Being a whore is awarding sexual and other intimate favors in exchange for financial benefits. If you are being up front about it say at a bunny ranch that’s just a job, t honorable or dishonorable. In order for that not to be dishonorable in relationships because you are providing for your kids you have to demonstrate that this was your only choice to give them a decent life, say like a Jewish woman in Nazi Germany who was able to save her kids by taking in with a Nazi. Doing it because you just couldn’t stand the thought of your kids going to public school in the US on the other hand, is not a justification.

[overlyverbose]

@Untoward_Parable

Being a whore is awarding sexual and other intimate favors in exchange for financial benefits. If you are being up front about it say at a bunny ranch that’s just a job, t honorable or dishonorable. In order for that not to be dishonorable in relationships because you are providing for your kids you have to demonstrate that this was your only choice to give them a decent life, say like a Jewish woman in Nazi Germany who was able to save her kids by taking in with a Nazi. Doing it because you just couldn’t stand the thought of your kids going to public school in the US on the other hand, is not a justification.

In that case, many men are whores because they enjoy the financial benefits of women providing most of the childcare, household budgeting, cooking and cleaning services women provide in exchange for sexual or intimate favors in addition to working a full time job to contribute to household finances.