Wow, lots of responses! I actually expected people to be more divided.
Here’s some clarifying information/thouhts:
The guy presented it to the girl without a hint of “confession” or guilt - it was more like, “hey, check out this WEIRD thing that happened! What a trip!”
My questions:
The girlfriend is completely ok with the guy watching porn and was never upset when he got a lapdance at a bachelor party. How is this different?
Is the situation worse if he had drunkenly kissed his neighbor instead of just watching?
Would it make any difference if the neighbor had been behind some sort of glass partition?
If the guy just thought the whole thing was weird and funny, rather than erotic, shouldn’t he be forgiven?
If he buys her a decent piece of jewelry, takes her to a nice restaurant, and explains how it was all weird and funny and he wants nobody but her. . .maybe.
The girlfriend is completely ok with the guy watching porn and was never upset when he got a lapdance at a bachelor party. How is this different?
**You can’t fuck a porn movie. I mean, you could, but that’d lead to cuts and scrapes in weird places. And as a girl that doesn’t mind her BFs going to strip clubs, it’s different because in strip clubs you aren’t allowed to fuck the stripper (you know, nicer strip clubs, at least). He can go fuck the neighbor real easy if he wants to.
Also, the stripper scenario doesn’t quite work because most strippers aren’t getting off while giving you a lapdance. **
Is the situation worse if he had drunkenly kissed his neighbor instead of just watching?
**No, I’d say just a drunk kiss would be less bad than him helping her get off. Helping her get off AND doing something intimate like kissing? Yeah, I’d still break up with him either way.
Would it make any difference if the neighbor had been behind some sort of glass partition?
**No. **
If the guy just thought the whole thing was weird and funny, rather than erotic, shouldn’t he be forgiven? No, he still cheated on his girlfriend and violated her trust. What if your girlfriend thought that sucking off that guy at the club was just weird and funny, but didn’t turn her on?
VCO3 , you or “a friend” made a mistake. Suck it up, don’t do it again, and be the better for it. There is no justification for cheating on someone, sorry.
Gross and not acceptable in an exclusive relationship regardless of if she was ‘behind glass’ or if the dude goes to the strip club.
Getting a lap dance at a bachelor party is different because it’s a bachelor party and that’s sometimes what happens, and it’s a stripper. This woman is not a stripper/escort/whatever, it’s a person he’ll see over and over again, and a woman who is probably trying to seduce him at some level.
Kissing is just as bad.
WTF kind of apartment does this woman have?
If he thought it was weird and funny, he would have called up his g/f and said ‘Hey, get over here, look what our crazy drunk neighbor is doing!’
I assume you’ll pretend to be extremely dense and fail to see the differences between the two scenarios, and call everyone in the thread a hypocrite. Am I close?
If the guy presented it as a “wow, listen to this weird sexual quirk I heard about!” from some girl on TV, then no problem. Or maaaaybe if he heard about the quirk from some woman he had met in public, that’d be okay.
To my mind, the mitigating factor isn’t the quirk itself, but the fact that some drunk girl dragged him into her apartment for her own sexual pleasure. That act sets off those somebody moving in on my man! alarms more than anything else.
The girlfriend is perfectly okay with porn? Good for her — but while a video tape of perfect women might make her feel self-conscious about her body, the video tape won’t steal her man away. Neither will a stripper at a bachelor party: she’s not there because she’s got the hots for him, after all.
A kiss between two drunken people at a public party is probably not a sign that there’s someone trying to steal away her man — unless the Other Woman corners the boyfriend in a back office during a Christmas party, or the Other Woman has been making passes at the boyfriend for a while. Drunken kisses in her apartment escalates the nature of the danger.
If she invited him to watch her through a glass partition, through her bedroom window (for instance), it’s still the invitation that sticks in my mind. That act is intended to draw him into her sexual world; that’s what sets off the alarms.
Good relationship rule of thumb: if you’re going to participate in anything sexual with another person, however involved you’re going to be, make sure it’s OK with your partner first.
I’ve gotten lap dances – after checking with my wife to see if she had a problem with it.
Watching porn (and masturbating yourself) are different because there’s no other person involved. Obviously, some partners have issues with their SO watching porn or masturbating, and if their SO wants to curtail those activities to respect those opinions, that’s their call. But involving a real live breathing someone else in whatever capacity automatically requires clarification of the rules of your relationship.
The thing with forgiveness is there’s no “should” or “shouldn’t.” You or I may be willing to forgive things that someone else wouldn’t, none of us are right or wrong.
The difference between what the guy in the OP did and watching porn (or strippers) is that in the OP scenario, the guy and the neighbor participated in a mutually consensual sex act. Granted, it wasn’t the customary sex act, but it was clearly spelled out by the neighbor as her sexual act of choice. Participating in a consensual sex act with a person outside the relationship (absent any agreements to the contrary between one and one’s SO) is flat-out infidelity.
Rubbing one out to porn isn’t a sex act with another person. By definition, pretty much. I don’t know how to express it more clearly, but the stars in a porn movie aren’t involved in the sex act with the person masturbating. Both the guy in the OP and the neighbor were involved in a sex act. He was watching, she was doing - but his presence was reportedly necessary.
With the strippers scenario, see the reasoning for why porn is different.
Keep in mind, that with some partners, either porn or strippers or both could be considered as participating in a sex act with someone outside the relationship. Mileage varies on that point - but if you’re in a relationship with someone who feels that way about it, and you know it, then indulging in either porn or strippers is cheating. Everyone gets to decide for themself what is and is not sexual behavior they’re comfortable with in their own relationships and act accordingly. If porn and/or strippers aren’t okay, and you let your partner know, then that is precisely as valid as a decision that anal sex isn’t okay - or that you’re not into bondage. It behooves the partner of someone with stated preferences to either agree to abide by them, or gracefully bow out and seek out a relationship more to their personal taste. To agree to abide (even by implication, by staying in a relationship knowing what your partner’s expectations are) and then fail to actually stay within the known limits of the relationship is cheating.
Hell, I’d side with the girlfriend based on his behavior outside the watching the neighbor get off alone. He made several really, really questionable judgement calls IMHO - he was a) drunk, b) flirting, c) agreed to go inside the neighbors apartment for more of same, d) failed to disengage himself when it was pretty clear the situation was moving Due Sex, and then e) (and this is the killer for me) treated his girlfriend’s poor reaction to his poor behavior as though she were being totally irrational about it. Her being pissed in this situation isn’t an overreaction - as to whether or not dumping him is, I’d have to know a lot more about their relationship than was presented in the OP to adequately judge.
It’s taken a while, but I have learned this: when a man says the word “overreaction,” a woman hears, “I get to decide what reaction is appropriate.” It’s one of the most patronizing things a man can say.
**Aangelica ** and Interrobang!? have concisely stated what my opinion on the subject is. The thing I’m having a problem with now, **VCO3 ** , is why you posted this question and then pretty much abandoned the thread. Surely you have your own strong opinions on the subject. Let’s hear it. Defend the girl or defend your “friend” whatever the case may be. How about more details into their relationship. If this is purely hypothetical then why did you post this?
It’s like throwing chum into a shark tank.
Ah. So, nearly everyone here seems to be in the ‘If you find yourself in a dubious sexual situation, apart from your steady GF, for whatever reason, you may as well cheat, then keep quiet about it, because you deserve to have your ass dumped for even being there.’ camp.
‘Hey, she was already diddling herself, across the room. You expect me to leave that, and most of a glass of Chivas she’d poured for me?’
‘I didn’t touch her, and when she was done, I finished the scotch, thanked her for the experience, and brought the sexual energy home to you, where it belongs, and told you about the experience.’
I think it’s significant he didn’t come from the experience, he was the neighbor’s pornography, or her audience. I know women who’d find the honesty a turn on, see valor in his restraint, and drag him into the bedroom. Thank OG I’m with one.
Hey everyone I’m not exactly new to the board been lurking for almost 5 years now. Normally what I’m thinking gets said with out me having to join so I never have. But I guess my ignorance at being a 24 yo male is causing me to think differently. I get that going back to her apartment was stupid, I mean obviously a night cap is going to lead somewhere.
But lets say this guy was an idiot and thought it was the same thing as meeting up with a drunk male neighbor and going to his apartment. If while you hanging out drinking the guy decides to flip on porn (most of time is college) your just going to hang out. Now if the guys starts jerking off (never happed to me but assuming here) I’m just going to ignore it and then tell every one he is a freak the next day. This seems to be a similar situation.
Yes I know these people were opposite sex and I know he watched but it doesn’t seem that different from watching porn while someone else got off to it and I thought they were a freak.
BTW: I hope I get in a situation with a chick where this will be a relevant discussion.
I think there is a crucial variable you are ignoring; the guy is in a relationship with another woman. Going to a friend’s house and seeing him jack off doesn’t play in to your own sexual gratification. Watching a woman get herself off (presumably) would, even if there was no physical gratification at the time. And that gratification is supposed to come from the SO.
Others have asked how this is different from watching porn or going to a strip club. I agree that one distinction is that those people are not partners to your arousal (they are merely “props”, from the guys perspective).
Another distinction is when the woman views it as distinct. That is, if she sees a difference, then there is one. She gets to set the ground rules for the level of sexual freedom she experiences in the relationship (he, to be sure, gets to set his own rules). If those rules coincide, they can have a good, healthy sexual relationship. If they conflict, one of the two will have to make sacrifices, or else they will not be able to sustain a good relationship. So, when in doubt, I think the prudent thing to ask is: “Has she already acquiesced to this behavior?” If so, you’re fine. If in doubt, better find out before going any farther.
Personally, if the roles were reversed, and my girlfriend came home with this story, and we’ve been going out for years, and there’s nothing else in the relationship that would indicate any problems, I would be a little concerned, but I’d let it go. It’s certainly not appropriate behavior, but, given all the circumstances, I hardly think it’s an unforgivable sin.
I’m on the side of the girlfriend, too. Boyfriend needed to not put himself in that position, and when he realized where he was, to get himself the hell out. Someone here said something a while ago about avoiding the appearance of impropriety; I think that is where boyfriend’s mistake was. Even if he hadn’t gotten involved in anything sexual, going drinking at the hot neighbour’s house instead of coming home was a bad move.
