Nice strawman. Why don’t you explain how the boyfriend in the story just “happened to find himself” in that situation.
You might also estimate the number of women out of 100 who’d prefer the following scenarios:
“I was going out drinking and came home to flirt with a drunk girl in her apartment. She said she had a weird sexual quirk, and offered to let me watch. I said I was flattered, but not interested, so I excused myself politely and came home.”
“I was going out drinking and came home to flirt with a drunk girl in her apartment. She said she had a weird sexual quirk, and offered to let me watch. I watched her strip and masturbate, then came right home.”
“I was going out drinking and came home. A drunk girl offered to flirt with me in her apartment, but I said no, and came right home.”
The other point about the strippers and the lap dance is that most couples have some idea of what is okay in this regard. If one person is going to a bachelor party with strippers, and is truthful about it “hey honey, I’m going to a bachelor party with strippers!” that would be a good time for the other person to clarify his/her comfort level with strippers, such as “lap dance okay, happy ending not okay” or whatever it may be.
I’m having a hard time imagining a scenario where a couple is chatting over breakfast and one of them says “hypothetically speaking, if the neighbor ever wanted to jerk off while I was watching, how would you feel about that?” I suppose it could happen. And I suppose the response could be “all right, go for it!”
So in the scenario in the OP, I think a good response would be for the guy to ask the neighbor to wait, and then check in with his partner to see how she feels. Hey, she could have said “go for it!”. I guess we’ll never know.
Each relationship is different. A couple establishes rules and decide on what constitutes a “deal breaker.” My partner and I have discussed what actions would spell the end of the relationship. I know one thing, if I, drunk or sober, were to watch some other girl masturbate that would be it. My partner would toss me out on my arse. In my shoes, the flirting wouldn’t have taken place, and if I lost possession of my faculties enough to be flirtatious and accept the invitation for a drink I certainly would have been out the door post haste if the girl began to come on to me. A serious relationship requires serious committment. Committment means not only *not cheating * but not placing yourself in situations that are explicitly questionable.
Oh, please. That’s not at all what I said (or even what I implied) and not what I think most posters are saying either.
To be truthful, I think you’re willfully misinterpreting. This guy didn’t “find himself in a dubious sexual situation”, he damn well created one for himself. He pretty much deliberately put himself into a sexual situation with someone other than his SO. From the OP, he followed a girl he’d been flirting with into her apartment to have a drink, and then when she informed him that she could only experience orgasm by having a guy watch her masturbate, he sat on his ass there and watched her masturbate. He didn’t say “wow, how interesting! Me, I’m into toe sucking” or “My goodness, I’ve never heard of that before! I’m a big sucker for sensuous massage.” Or “Holy cow, look at the time, I have to get back home before my girlfriend thinks I’ve been hit by a car!” He helped her fulfill her sexual fantasy.
So, after being told what her preferred sexual experience was, he proceeded to help her engage in it. I have a very, very difficult time blaming his partner for breaking up with him.
I think the guy in the OP was firmly in the wrong (for several reasons), and I’m not placing any blame on the girl for booting him.
I can’t really make a call on the reasonableness of breaking up entirely vs. forgiveness and continuing the relationship in this situation, because I have no idea what the guy’s previous behavior pattern has been. Actually, I’m missing a lot of information to make that call - like the general state of their relationship, what, if any, agreements they had about their sex lives, how he reacted to her being upset (was he apologetic or did he immediately assume her being upset was de facto unreasonable), and any number of things.
I gotta wonder, though, what the likelihood of the guy in the OP never having done anything to give his girlfriend pause in the past is. That’s a lot of questionable judgement calls in a really short period of time for a guy that’s never given his SO cause for concern, you know?
I’d say, monogamous relationship: He’s wrong, she’s right. If they’ve been going out that long and are exclusive he should have a pretty good idea of what’s been agreed upon as ‘appropriate behavior’ in the relationship, and if watching your neighbor get off is a no-no.
Specifically open relationship: She overreacted a bit, but why on Earth was he telling her all the details? Even if they agreed that they didn’t have to okay each other’s other partners, he still ought to be discreet. “Hi, honey, I’ll be home a bit late, I’ve run into someone and we’re going to play,” would be all that’s needed. TMI is a bit disrespectful, you know?
don’t go into the other woman’s apartment (especially drunk);
don’t (even stupidly drunk), watch another woman displaying herself when you are in any sort of a relationship;
and if one is too stupid drunk to avoid violating the two previous rules, absolutely do not go tell one’s current girlfriend just how stupid one has been.
I don’t see it as a strawman, exactly, perhaps more reductio ad absurdium. How did he ‘just happen’ to find himself in the situation? In the OP he’s invited in for a drink, the conversation grows loose and flirtatious. It sounds like the neighbor had a sexual agenda, the boyfriend was there for a drink. He didn’t go in hoping she’d offer to masturbate for him.
Estimate percentages? Of course most women are going to prefre scenario #3. Even my SO, who is wonderfully unusual, when I ran this scenario past her in the hypothetical with me in the boyfriends shoes, said a phone call between drink and observing masturbation would be appreciated. She said the trust level would take a hit, if I only told her afterwards, but no way would it be curb kicking material.
I’m a bit of a sexual libertine, though currently monogamous, and the devil’s advocate.
It’s a strawman: you assume your opponent supports an argument not in evidence. If someone “just happened” to find himself in a bizarre sexual situation — for instance, someone sends the boyfriend a Strip-O-Gram at his place of work, where he can’t simply walk out the door to evade the situation; or if he happens to accidentally discover a woman masturbating in the supply closet at work; or if a gaggle of scantily-clad sweaty Amazons tied him up and dragged him into their bower and propped open his eyes and forced him to watch — then I say honesty is the best policy, and he should tell his girlfriend. Those things are examples of “it just happened.”
The OP didn’t just happen. The boyfriend had any number of opportunities to call his girlfriend, to get up and leave voluntarily, to politely decline, to make his apologies and excuse himself, or to ask permission.
It’s an over-reaction in the opposite direction of the majority. The thread is long, and has an overall tone of ‘termination of the relation at anything that smacks of infidelity is justified and probably for the best.’ Sounds like pre-emptive retalitory dumping, and an argument against honesty. You can’t be honest if you’re afraid your partner will use your words against you.
The OP I read didn’t have the flirting start until they were in her apartment, drinking. Until then , he knew her to say hello to, but never flirted with her. The sexual situation did indeed grow up around him as they drank and conversed. We don’t know how much she drove the flirtation. Just because men have the rep of always being the sexual predator/aggresssor doesn’t mean it is true in every case, every time. I agree that alcohol can be a reason, but not an excuse.
(Bolding mine.)
Yes he did. You say it like it’s a bad thing. OK, he should have checked in with his SO to make sure she was OK with it first, but it’s easy to see why he may not have thought of that, just then. I can only hope I’d think to, in that situation, so I could either enjoy the show guilt free, or known to get my ass home away from that freaky chick. My SO usually has good advice, and this era of cell phones, there’s little reason not to check in when things get weird.
That’s just where we differ. No crime. Most feel it was sex, and therefore infidelity because he helped her come. I feel it wasn’t sex, and therefore not infidelity, because he didn’t come.
Please do forgive me If I’ve scandalized anyone’s moral barometer.
I can’t believe I’m going to play this game, but I am curious*. For those of you felt the guy clearly cheated in this scenario:
Would you feel any differently at all if the girl had said, “My boyfriend/husband and I really get off on having someone watch us. You seem like a nice guy…would you mind helping us out?”
*I’m married, I’m pretty sure my wife would NOT be cool with the scenario as described in the OP (and perhaps not even my own hypothetical), and I certainly wouldn’t put myself in that situation out of respect for her. But I don’t equate “my wife wouldn’t be comfortable with this” with “it’s cheating,” and I think whoever said that the OP’s scenario may as well be the same as the girl giving the guy a blowjob goes a bit far.
And see, that right there, that’s the bit why your situation and your relationship isn’t anything like the OP’s, or the hypothetical situation you’ve created. It isn’t like those because you and your SO have talked about it. So now you know what you need to do if that situation ever comes up and you want to have integrity and remain in the relationship.
I’m one of “those women” you rhapsodize about as well. I would have no problem with my husband doing anything outlined in the OP, or even more. But the difference is that he knows that. We’ve talked about that, and I’ve let him **know **it’s not a dealbreaker for me.
If we hadn’t talked about it and agreed to have an open marriage, and also talked about what precisely that means, then hell yeah I’d have a problem with it. A dealbreaker in one relationship is not always a dealbreaker in another relationship, even if the same person is involved.
I still think it was how he got into the situation that caused the problem Now if he went back to the appartment with known swingers for a drink he is still an idiot but he was over for a dinner and the couple asked its still weird but I’m not see the breakupable offence.
Slightly diffrent version that I jsut thought of what if the girl just wanted him around so he’s in one room watching tv and she back in the bed room or she like shoes and wants to barrow his for the purpose its all weird but is he really cheating?
I still think it was how he got into the situation that caused the problem. Now if he went back to the appartment with known swingers for a drink he is still an idiot, but he was over for a dinner and the couple asked him to watch, its still weird, but I’m not seeing the breakupable offence.
Slightly diffrent version that I just thought of what if the girl just wanted him around so he’s in one room watching tv and she back in the bed room or she likes shoes and wants to barrow his for the purpose is he really cheating?
