I am a 41 year old single man, and over the years I have heard so many stories from women about other mens performances in bed. What I do not understand is that there seems to be so many guys out there that really do not seem to care about being a good lover. I have heard about many men that do not take the time to give the woman an orgasm. The guy just sticks it in, without foreplay, lasts about 2 minutes, and then rolls over and goes to sleep. There are others that are way too rough, grabbing and squeezing breasts, and causing much pain, and/or shoving dry fingers into vaginas. These guys somehow not realizing that they need to be a lot more gentle. Or, guys being in relationships for years, and the woman has never, ever had one orgasm. Why is it that some guys do not realize that the more the woman enjoys the lovemaking, the better the sex will also be for him, and the more often she will want to make love to him.
Most women that are happy in bed will make the effort to make sure that the man is very happy in bed.
I have met several women that claim that they do not like sex at all due to past relationships. I view those situations as challenges, and I am very happy to take the time to help them realize that they do enjoy sex.
Of course, I realize whether or not someone is a good lover or not is very subjective. And, I do realize that some of these women are just venting about past relationships. But, I have heard so many horror stories over the years , that I really do think a large number of men are clueless in bed. Do many guys just not care ?
Bad sex, in my experience, comes in two forms: the scared and the selfish.
The scared guys are so tense about the fact that there’s a naked woman in their bed that they try too hard, apologize too much, or approach too timidly.
The selfish ones are after their pleasure and not much else. You can tell these guys because their technique is typically perfectly honed to their own likings. It’s like finding yourself in a poorly lit stageplay where your only role is to be the available orifice in the guy’s pre-written scene.
I might give a scared guy a couple tries to come around, but a selfish guy usually isn’t worth it.
I’m a little older than you, which means I was going through my randy bachelor days with a lot of women who began dating during a less enlightened time.
I’ve always been struck by the fact that a lot of women won’t (or at least don’t) tell their partners what feels good and what doesn’t. Either they’re too shy, they don’t want to risk alienating their boyfriends or they can’t quite explain it.
Add to that the likelihood that what works with one woman may not work with another, so there’s no universal baseline.
Combine that with the astronomical number of men who’s education in sexual techniques comes entirely from porn videos and the Penthouse Forum, who assume that if they’ve enjoying it their partners must be as well.
It’s a wonder any relationship lasts long enough for two people to get used to each other’s bodies.
I’m much younger than both of you and this is a pretty large problem with my girlfriend right now. While neither of us are very experienced, at least I know what feels good for me. She’s very clueless as to what she wants since she was raised by two very conservative parents and Catholic school. Both which told her, sex is dirty and you should keep the hands above the belt.
It’s difficult for me to know what she wants if she doesn’t know.
As in every aspect of a relationship, communication is the key.
I suspect that some of today’s young men may have been negatively influenced by the way women behave in the porn movies that they’ve seen.
I used to post frequently on a forum that was largely populated by young men in their teens and twenties. An astounding number of these guys thought that most women wanted to be roughed up in various ways. Some of the mistaken notions about oral sex were particularly horrific. One guy told me in a private message that he couldn’t understand why a girl would not go out with him a second time. Turned out the guy had given her a ‘facial’, on the mistaken assumption that she would find it arousing.
Exactly. I caught your post on preview, but what I was going to say in response to the questions Why are many men bad lovers? was “because women allow it.”
Women allow inexperienced men to be bad lovers when they don’t tell the men what they want.
Women allow selfish men to be bad lovers when they have sex with them more than once. 
Good distinction, btw, belladonna
My SO is convinced that once you have experience, you can please most women. I think that all the experience in the world won’t help if she is too shy to tell you what feels good (verbally or non-). We’re all so different… and complicated.
:eek: That would be sad if it weren’t so funny. Or maybe it’s the other way around.
Kid_A, buy her a vibrator. Give her time (by herself) to figure it out. If she can’t have an orgasm by herself, she almost certainly won’t have one with you.
I think it is purely a factor of a certain man’s idea of sexual pleasure.
For me, the best part is when the woman enjoys it. I mean, that’s what seperates sex from masturbation in my opinion.
That’s why I’m not so crazy about sex with people I don’t know well. Its nice to have sex, but nowhere near as special as with someone you care about. But I often think about it when having sex with someone that I don’t know. I mean if I’m interested in having a more serious relationship, I want to make sure they enjoy it. This is probably why I couldn’t be in a sex-only relationhsip, because I don’t need to have a relationship just for that.
But maybe, on the other hand, these guys simply aren’t aware of it. Maybe they’ve been with girls who simply didn’t bother teaching them? But the truth is that a girl can always cut some slack to the guy who is too nervous over the guy who is just selfish. And how do you bring that up? “Honey? Do you think maybe you could pay attention to my sexual needs?” I mean normally when its an otherwise great guy then it would probably be trivial to most people.
But I’ve noticed that some girls are bad kissers. Or at least they don’t kiss the way I like. Do you know what I’m talking about? I mean the ones that have really tight lips and use their tounge erratically? I think its a sort of sensory overload and its a lot better to be gentle. I think this is the problem with guys who are bad in bed.
Oh, and also the ones who don’t perform oral sex.
Sorry if this is a slight hijack, but its probably very related. To the girls… Ever have a guy who just wouldn’t do oral sex? Or maybe he did and did it badly? If it was bad, how so?
[QUOTE=SusanStoHelitIf she can’t have an orgasm by herself, she almost certainly won’t have one with you.[/QUOTE]
That’s not necessarily true. There are women who can’t have one by themselves, but can with a partner. The range of variation in human sexuality is truly amazing.
<2 minutes down there = bad.
There are lots of ways:
For example: if he’s just inexperienced, I just wait until he does soemthing right (as he will, eventually), then tell him how much I love it when he does that.
Acutally, if it takes too long, he’ll hear how much I love somthing that he didn’t even know he was doing ;). And he’ll usually start doing it after that.
I also make sure to ask lots of questions about his responses, so it seems natural to talk about mine.
In my experience, poor performance in bed is often closely linked to an overabundance of physical attractiveness and penis size. I’ve been with some guys who don’t feel like they have to put the effort out - like just whipping it out will surely be enough. I assume that it has been, at least sometimes, for them. I prefer a guy who has to put a little more work into getting and keeping females.
I have been married for the last 25 years, but I was a pretty hot item for quite a while before I was married, so this comment is based upon old data.
I’ve been with men who just honestly didn’t find male-on-female oral sex to be a turn-on. In such a case, I certainly wouldn’t push the issue. I don’t like to think that he’s gritting his teeth and doing it just to please me. If it isn’t a mutual turn-on, why bother?
I can’t imagine rejecting a guy just because he wasn’t keen on oral sex. It’s not as if that’s the be-all and end-all of eroticism.
As for oral sex done badly, it can be pretty bad. I had a guy once who nipped me with his teeth. Love bites are OK sometimes, but not down there. Or at least that’s the way I felt about it at the time.
I just need to figure out how to get some practice!
There are guys who simply aren’t comfortable at all with sex or sexuality, and there are others who have strange Madonna/whore notions firmly lodged in their heads. The Madonna/whore problem is particularly pernicious, since it’s really hard to care too much about someone you’ve lost all respect for. And, of course, to a guy who has the pure girl/sinful slut attitude, that wonderful woman he was dating becomes lower than dirt once he sleeps with her. That means that a guy who was incredibly tender, sweet, passionate lover the first time can turn into a terrible, selfish, demanding lay thereafter.
I think that there some guys who are severly lacking in sensuality. They just don’t seem to enjoy their senses very much, have no real inclination towards pleasure for its own sake. These guys can be warm, wonderful human beings, but they’ll never be good lovers. They just don’t care very much about sex and have only very minimal sex drives. No matter how comfortable you get with them emotionally, they just don’t particularly enjoy their own bodies, they won’t enjoy your body, and they won’t understand your desires at all. These guys can be great friends, but you really have to leave it at that.
I’m with the listen and communicate folks in here. It is surely beautiful to be in love with your lover, but IMHO there are experiences that are pure and sweet that are based to a large degree on the dynamics of the moment/hour/day/etc. They are no less valid and good, just different.
Listen. Look. Pay attention. Understand the amazing variety of human responses. Porn ain’t sex, it’s highly focused objectification. Me, I loves my porn.
However, it’s a shadow, a flitter of nothingness next to making love with a woman. Ahhhh…gosh. 
Cartooniverse
This is somewhat of a problem for me.
My problem is that I can get into the sensuality part of it, but if I do… well… it ends rather quickly. If I’m having sex with a woman for the first time, but I would like to have a relationship, then I will pretty much forgoe any kind of notion to really enjoy it myself until I am sure that she is satisfied. But I try to keep things cool until then. But as we start to click, and learn each other better, I’ll start to know how much I can focus on the pleasurable parts of it. After a while, though, I feel like I can enjoy my feelings more too.
I am sure its a line many men have to walk to be good in bed.
Ooh, that reminds me of my an ex…She was never very keen on oral sex, and that was before I sort of did it automatically no matter what. Sex was nice, and she did orgasm some. But after she came the first time after I ate her out. It was all that she wanted. Sex with her afterwards was pretty lame, because I knew hat she was already satisfied, and she normally didn’t show much sensation when we would have sex after she came. For some reason it wasn’t her thing, intercourse. Now, I had no problem eating her out, but I didn’t like to do it every time until she came. I mean that’s quite taxing if you are in a relationship. And also, the relationship was going sour too. But I could enjoy having sex with her that much because she didn’t seem to take much pleasure from it, only the secondary pleasure that came from being intimate.
As for the guys with a porn mentality in their head… Man I think that’s fucked up. I feel sorry for them though, because they’ll never know the true beauty of pleasing someone that you are in love with.
Speaking of porn. Anyone here ever seen Bang Bus? This is what I’m talking about. Its about a bunch of guys watching some dude fuck a girl while they make commands and basically turn the woman into an object. Shit, sex isn’t about power…Or at least it shouldn’t be.
Well, if you’re both into that, then it totally should be about power. But for most folks, it shouldn’t be.
I think a lot of it is differing perceptions of what sex is supposed to be about. A man for whom sex is about getting off is typically not going to be considered a good lover by someone for whom sex is about more generalized tactile pleasure or about feeling connected to someone. He’s typically not going to want to fool with all that touching and kissing and teasing stuff, but rather just go for the gold as it were. For a woman who needs the touching and kissing and teasing stuff to become truly aroused, that kind of sex tends to be frustrating and/or boring, because about the time she’s starting to really enjoy it, he’s done.
Sometimes men are bad lovers because they really just don’t care. If they’re more concerned about what they’re getting out of it than with giving their partner pleasure, then they’re not going to be much fun in bed. I’d rather be with a man who isn’t a great lover but cares about what I’m getting out of it, instead of only caring about what he wants.
Thanks for the advice, I’ve thought of it before. I just don’t know how she’d react. The evils of sex have been drilled into her pretty well and to her, good girls don’t do that. I’ve been trying hard to convince her otherwise but even when we’re being intimate, she’s too embarassed(?) to show me herself. She didn’t even believe me that it’s a pretty common thing among both sexes. She thought only a handful of guys did it and was shocked to hear from me, that pretty much every guy does it and any girl who wasn’t raised like her does it as well.
I haven’t even told her that I’ve been to two birthday parties where vibrators were gifts. Probably will think I’m some sort of deviant…
BTW, I’m almost 22 and she’s 7 months older than me.
By showing you herself, do you mean she won’t let you see her naked, or that she won’t let you watch her masturbate, or what?
Also, a lot of younger women tend to be uncomfortable with masturbating. That’s something that gross icky boys who can’t get laid do, not something attractive people who can have sex with real live human beings do. Also, her sex drive just may not be all that strong. For some women it doesn’t really start ramping up until the mid-20’s.