When you finally get old enough to realize when push comes to shove nobody really knows what the fuck is going on or really knows what the hell they are talking about and that it includes you too things should get a bit better.
Perception plays a big role in this. If everyone in the world had leprosy and you didn’t, you’d be the odd one. Whether or not the problem is really with everyone else is irrelevant. Leprosy would be the new norm and you’d fall outside that norm. Perhaps everyone would be envious of you and strive to cure leprosy, but that wouldn’t diminish the fact that your lack of leprosy has made you abnormal. It’s like the “I Am Legend” story. If everyone in the world was suddenly a vampire except you, you’d be free to believe that you’re the only normal one, but you’d be wrong.
If you believe that most people suck most of the time, then that’s your problem, not theirs. Think of it this way. The people that you find annoying probably don’t believe that they’re annoying. So perhaps you’re the annoying one and you just don’t know it. Everyone else is normal and the reason you have trouble liking people is because “normal” people are annoying to you. The few people whose company you do enjoy are the “weirdos” which is why there are so few of them.
Of course it’s you, silly. Normal people aren’t like this at all. There are many people who like almost everyone they know!
I don’t like or respect hardly anyone either, and even some people I like I don’t want to spend much time with! My sister for instance, I love her because she’s my baby sister I helped raise and she’s a cool girl, but we’re opposites in many ways and don’t enjoy spending our time the same way. I tolerate everyone, don’t let my dislike of them affect my emotions negatively (this has been a learning process), and get along well with 99.9% of those I interact with. That’s all that matters. The hardest thing is that people seem to like me a lot, and I have to reject their overtures of friendship. I’m pretty cold, but I’m not a monster, and I don’t like hurting people’s feelings.
I am in a great LTR (didn’t ever see that happening until I met him) and I do have friends. I never call them to chat though, just to make plans to do specific things.
First: I’m a raving heterosexual, lets not mix apples and orange. I’ve got no problem with homosexuality – I just think any penis but my own is repulsive. Now, I think I’ll go play some Cher and go design some fashion (those are still gay stereotypes, right?).
Second: I was never really isolated from my peers. I had plenty of invitations to parties, a number of dates (more than my fair share, considering I was an overweight, awkward jerk) and plenty of people who would hang out with me if I called them. I just didn’t.
And, third (last): I was, and still am, more intelligent than my peers. However that’s never been an impediment to forming any sort of relationship. In fact, one of the people I actually did like in high school was a borderline moron.
Unlike many intelligent people, both more and less intelligent than I am, I don’t think intelligence makes you superior. For what it’s worth, I have also socialized with people in my intelligence “bracket” through various clubs that I was compelled to join, and I didn’t like any of them all that much either.
I don’t have all that great of an ego. Because I don’t like other people, I have to have a giant ego? I don’t understand the leap of logic – please walk me through the steps.
For the record: I dislike talking about myself (although since I started this thread about myself, I seem to be doing a lot of it – that’ll teach me not to do this again).
I’m not liking this theory. That means that extensions of myself would be annoying me, and that’s an existential dilemma I’m not equipped to deal with. 
As for viewing people for what they’re worth to me, most certainly not. I don’t know of any way I can explain it that’ll make sense to you, but those who I like very rarely “do” much of anything to or for me, beyond not annoying me.
I think you are misunderstanding: I’m not at a shortage of people who want to hang out with me – I’m at a shortage of people that I want to hang out with.
I couldn’t do the “liking everyone,” thing. It’d just be weird.
Seriously, though, it’s like some of you aren’t reading the thread before you respond. I was specific about me not being annoying, or the problem. I’m generally well liked, and don’t really have a problem finding people who want to hang out with me… it’s people I want to hang out with that I can’t find.
Then you REALLY are the problem aren’t you then?
Its not that people don’t like you, its you that doesn’t like other people. Either change your taste, get some tolerance, lose some arrogance, grow the frack up, or learn to like being lonely.
Why is this a problem?
Can I choose more than one?
(Where do you get “arrogant” from my posts?)
I don’t know, it just seems statistically improbable.
“Normal” people don’t have a problem finding people they like hanging out with. It’s “abnormal” for you to not be able to find people that you want to hang out with. Therefore, the problem isn’t with everyone else, it’s with you. And in my opinion, the more serious problem is that you immediately reject the notion that the problem is with you and not everyone else. “I don’t have a drinking problem. It’s just that nobody appreciates a glass of whiskey like I do.”
Answer me this. How do you know that other people like you? If you’re spending time with people you don’t like, why is it unreasonable to believe that they don’t like you either, and are just tolerating your company the way you tolerate theirs? If they’re asking to spend time with you, how do you know that they’re not just following normal social protocols and being polite? Do you tell them that you think they’re annoying? If not, isn’t in reasonable to believe that they might find you annoying as well and aren’t telling you either?
I’m not going to diagnose you with anything. But you sound like you have an interpersonal style that fits the characteristics of a specific psychiatric disorder. I’m not going to tell you which one (isn’t that so obnoxious of me ;)). But I’m just saying…it might be worthwhile to get yourself checked out and determine if there’s something psychological underpinning your difficulties besides “everyone sucks!!!”.
Although there are some people who don’t think what I’m talking about is a real disorder, I disagree. Maybe it’s not that uncomfortable when you’re in your 20s and you’re surrounded by people all the time, annoying or not. But it can majorly suck when you hit your 30s and all those annoying jerks are happily married with kids while you only have your “deep” thoughts and model car collection to keep you company.
How to cope? Well, what I’ve been doing is getting used to the idea that I don’t have to be normal to be happy. Yes, socializing and having friends and lovers is very normal behavior. But I’d rather be content with life and be considered eccentric than be miserable all the time and be “normal”. Ha! I say this like I actually believe it…so let’s just say I want to believe it. I’m working as hard as I can to believe it.
That’s not to say I’m just “doing me” without making any changes. Like you, I’m disturbed that I can’t seem to find people I gel with. But saying they suck is so adolescent and also not really true, at least from my experience. People can have sucky qualities, yes, but in general most of us are decent people. To experience the decency of others, I’ve carved out an existence that allows me to be around people who I can tolerate, without getting too close to them and them to me, while also keeping my independence by keeping my time with them short and sweet. For instance, I’ve struck up a friendship of sorts with a woman with an organic garden that serves as her business. On Saturdays, I help plant, weed, feed chickens, and other physical tasks alongside her, in exchange for food (ice cream and eggs will do). We will talk about politics, the environment, food, and other topics that I find kinda sorta interesting. But because we’re working, it doesn’t seem like we’re simply jibber-jabbering. It also helps that she’s almost twice my age; older people are easier for me to get along with for some reason. Always have been, even when I was a kid. And when the work is done, I’m gone until the next time she calls me up and asks for help. Sometimes she’s called me just to chat and I can’t say I really like that, but because I never get phone calls from non-relatives, it makes me feel kind of normal. And I like that.
I don’t retreat to my office during lunch. I eat in the breakroom and crack jokes, because I’ve always enjoyed making people laugh. And I keep the door to my office open and let people come in to chat. At first I really really hated this, but gradually began to tolerate it and now I sometimes even like it. For one thing, if there are cookies and cake in the breakroom, I’m always one of the first to know about it because someone alerts me :). Also, it gives me the benefits of being sociable (sharing jokes, finding out important job-related information, getting help with work-related problems, earning respect, etc.) without actually having to deal with the stress of maintaining real friends.
And therapy is another way to feel connected. Granted, I have been lucky with my experience. I have a great therapist, even though–lo and behold–she has sucky qualities! Like, sometimes she has actually dozed off during session. I thought that only happened on TV! But her good qualities really outweigh the bad ones. And it helps that she, out of everyone in the world, understands my problems with people. She can’t empathize, since her personality is the opposite of mine. Nor is she trained to deal with people like me; most of her homework assignments for me are clearly shot from the hip. But yet we have still formed a relationship of mutual trust and respect. I feel compelled to do nice things for her, like giving her my artwork. She has done some things for me, like letting me meet her famous daughter, that I wouldn’t have expected out of a shrink. True, it’s just a patient-doctor relationship, not a “real” one, but it’s one more relationship than I had before I started the process. It has helped me understand myself and other people, and figure out why we BOTH do the things we do.
If you want to be normal, you have to let people break down the barrier that surrounds you, that makes you emotionally aloof and feel “above” them. I sincerely believe you when you say you don’t feel superior to people. I’m the same way. I’ve always felt “apart” but never “better than”. And like me, you probably don’t believe you live on the same plane as the rest of us. Yes, you do. Once you realize that you suck just as much as the guy over there, but that neither your suckiness or his can hinder your way to happiness, then you will be alright.
It’s also alright to accept that you will never be “man of the people”, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be content, if not happy. Yeah, people will talk about you behind your back. They will call you a loser, a big meano, a jerk, a self-centered snob. They will do, as I have just done, diagnose you with various problems and disorders. Some will feign sympathy for you. But it won’t really matter as long as you’re happy being you and you’re kind and compassionate towards others.
Apologies for the long-winded post.
Hi Todderbob,
You seem pretty “normal” to me. (Not in a statistical sense, but in that your feelings are understandable.)
I’m in my 50s, I’ve got one close friend, maybe two pretty good friends, and a couple more I could ask for favors (moving, painting, trip to airport.)
When I was 20, I didn’t have any good friends.
The good news is that one day (when I was 21) I met someone and an hour later we were best friends. It was like falling in love. He understood my jokes and cultural references. His conversation didn’t seem trite and obvious.
It was amazing. That was at a community college.
A few years earlier I had met a girl who struck me with the same impact, and I did fall instantly and rapturously in love. However at the time I was so socially inept that I alienated her after a couple of meetings.
I met her at work (low paying “artsy” type job).
If you put yourself in a position where you’ll meet people who are somewhat smarter than average, you’ll probably meet people that it will be easy to be friends with. Eventually.
I did like billfish’s comment:
When you finally get old enough to realize… nobody really knows what the fuck is going on… or what the hell they are talking about and that it includes you too things should get a bit better.
Even if you think you’re only mildly special now, it usually takes decades to truly grasp the many many ways you are average or below.
In a lot of cases friendship is simply a matter of spending LOTS of TIME with someone and sharing experiences. That’s why people (yourself included) can often get along with family members. That’s why it’s common that people become friends with their co-workers.
If your intelligence level is 1 in 100 that’s going to make it harder to find “soul-mate” type friends. If your religious beliefs are dramatically different from most people, that will raise the odds as well. If you’re introverted, the odds are increased again.
Hang in there. Try to put yourself someplace where you’ll be “forced” to do stuff with intelligent people. Even at a college, there might only be 1 person in 1000 that you’ll actively want to be friends with, but it’s better than sitting at home and not meeting new people.
Asked and answered by the OP.
Why, exactly, would you expect the world to conform to the needs of a jackass?
Are you trying to convince me or yourself?
Isolated is isolated, whether it’s self imposed or not.
Based on what? Are you a straight A student? Do you test highly on standardized tests? Are you attending MIT or CalTech?
You could be highly intelligent for all I know (I don’t know you personally). Even if you don’t think you are superior, you could still find Little Brains tedious because they don’t grasp things that you grasp or seem to do dumb things for no reason. I felt that way about 90% of my high school. On the flip side, I didn’t care for the way highly intelligent people seemed either socially isolated and awkward or arrogant and pretentious (or both). So for me it has always been difficult to find people who were in that sweet spot of being intelligent and social without being asshole douchebags or total tools.
Or a little ego.
I’m not qualified to diagnose you. I’m just throwing ideas out there for you to explore on your own. But someone with "narcissistic personality disorder’ (which monstro might be alluding to) actually has a very fragile ego. They build up an inflated view of themselves that requires constant ‘narcisstic supply’ from others in order to protect their ego. If other people aren’t providing it, they become agitate, dismissive, even violent. IOW in many ways they don’t truly feel equal to others and have this strong need to feel superior in some way. Thinking everyone else is a tedious idiot makes you feel superior.
Maybe you see in those people things about yourself that you don’t like.
Really what it means is that you don’t see others as people. They are either there to provide you with something or to be dismissed if they can’t. You don’t appreciate other people simply as people, flaws and all.
What sort of person would you want to hang out with?
I’d say that you don’t feel that you’re these things because you’re much more unique than that, Todderbob. Saying that one of your friends in school was a ‘borderline moron’ has no connotation of your feelings of superiority whatsoever.
Ah but you do feel like you’re better than anyone in that everyone is agitating, except you. You, who is so likable and popular that you are continuously invited to do things, and arrogant enough to decline them, and never reciprocate.
These are solitary pursuits, Todderbob. Is there some confusion about the point of being with other people?
Splitting hairs, Todderbob. But that may relate to your terminal uniqueness. Ordinary people may simply be bored; you, however are agitated. Curiously, I find that if I’m ever bored enough, I get agitated.
As do you, Todderbob and therein lies the rub.
Can’t it be both? 
Point conceded, although I’ve never felt isolated.
No, I didn’t do particularly well in school, despite having a solid grasp of all of the subject matter (I didn’t do my homework). However, at a young age I was IQ tested, and then infrequently after that (it’s a requirement, when you move to a new district/school and at certain stages, like 6th and 9th grade for some of the programs I was in).
I thought that he was referring to Schizoid Personality Disorder – which I’ll admit doesn’t sound all that off. I’m not even sure why it’s classified as a disorder. Other than the ‘not liking sex’ thing though, I’m almost a dead ringer.
This is a point I’d beg to differ on. I can’t explain, really, how I know this isn’t true, other than a knowledge to the contrary.
If I wanted people who I could use for certain things, I could have that. I don’t, so I don’t have that.
I’m at a loss for definable characteristics. The basics, of course, stand out – able to carry a conversation being foremost among them.
I’m not sure how to interpret the first part of this sentence… but as to the 2nd, I wasn’t judging him, merely making an objective assessment.
Why would I reciprocate them, if the reason I declined them was that I didn’t want to engage with the person in question any more than necessary?
No, there’s no confusion. That statement makes a lot more sense if not taken out of context, though.
Not really. It’s an important and meaningful distinction.
One is a function of entertainment, the other is a function of comfort.
Why do you insist that (I think) I’m not ordinary?
While I recognize differences in my personality from baseline (aside from not enjoying as a wide spectrum of company as most), I don’t think that makes me “unique” in any real sense (would now be a good time for a Napoleon joke?). I am not average, but then most people aren’t average – in fact, the overwhelming minority of people are “average.”
I think the old expression, “The average American has half a penis, one testicle and one breast,” comes to mind.
I can be bored and not agitated.
I could give you examples, if you really want.
Here’s the question though: What do you say I’m trying to warp about my posts?
You’re trying to warp my posts into reflecting that I have a self-grandious complex (or something to that effect?). I don’t think I do, because I don’t think I’m all that unique, other than not liking people in much the same way as others do – just as if I didn’t like most dairy, other than say Bleu Cheese. That doesn’t make me unique, only picky.
For now, it doesn’t look like I’m going to college (as a degree wont effect my income potential, it seems pointless for me to spend money on one for the sake of getting one – I may change my mind, or it may change my income potential in the future). Assuming I don’t, what sort of situations would you recommend, or have worked for you in the past?
Yes, I (and I’m a “she”, by the way) was referring to schizoidism, not narcissicism. But I wouldn’t do what a lot of 20-somethings seem to do, once they get hold of some abnormal psych textbook, and self-diagnose. If a person tries hard enough, they can make him or herself fit the criteria for a number of disorders, particularly those of the personality. If you’re really curious about what makes you tick, don’t go posting on message boards, asking random people if you “fit” this or that disorder. Go to a real practitioner and let them shrink your brain for awhile.
And it’s considered a disorder because it can be debilitating and bring pain to people’s lives. Imagine, for instance, having a refrigerator mother–someone so emotionally cold that she could simply pick up and abandon you the moment she gets tired of dealing with the intense emotions you elicit in her, as well as your smothering dependency on her. And deep-down she might feel bad about leaving you too, but not bad enough to come back. Now that’s disturbing, wouldn’t you say? Personally I believe that people who don’t actually experience suffering from some aspect of it probably do not have the disorder. Besides the problems associated with schizoid PD that are not listed in the DSM-IV (such as derealization and emotional emptiness), schizoids are highly susceptible to clinical depression. And then there’s the ever so slight but significant link to schizophrenia. These problems, if you have enough of them, usually get worse over time. The walls that surround your emotions get thicker and less penetrable, you become less motivated to do things that might bring positive change to your life, you start finding it harder and harder to find things to enjoy, you become more and more disconnected from the world and from yourself. Ectera, ectera. Schizoid PD is much more than not getting along with people. It’s a package of things, most of them not so good.
But chances are you do not have schizoid PD because it sounds like you do desire friendship–something most schizoid do not want at all. Most likely you just haven’t found that person or two who you feel comfortable enough letting your hair down around. I’m not saying that’s normal, but it’s not an uncommon struggle. Maybe going to school would put you in contact with people such as yourself. Also, you may become more tolerant of other people’s annoying qualities as you mature into adulthood and start learning more about yourself.
My friends:
A former boss (fellow graphic designer) who also had a Protestant minister for a father.
An 80 y.o. German immigrant (mildly well-to-do) that I started playing weekly chess games with at my wife’s urgings.
An artist/sign painter whose studio I used to peer into with love and amazement, who eventually ended up a neighbor. We work on occasional projects together.
A guy I went to art school with long ago who married a friend of my wife.
These were all people that I ended up spending a lot of time with before they became friends.
Even though the odds are against finding any great friends at any specific time, it’s very easy and cheap to take a course or two at a community college. It doesn’t need to be degree oriented, just something you’d like to learn more about.
And FWIW, the teachers I had at community colleges were as good or better than the ones I had at a couple of prestigious private universities.
There are also many nice women at colleges.
No danger of me attempting to self diagnose. I’m not a big fan of psyc mumbo jumbo anyway.
My mothers six kinds of crazy, and has been to more shrinks than I can count, and they’ve done nothing for her. I don’t think I’ve got any “disorders” at all, and I think that most people can be made to fit most psyc conditions (in the same way that most people can be made to fit most tarot/astrology conditions) given the right perspective.
That doesn’t mean that psychology doesn’t help a lot of people – I just don’t think it’ll be of any real benefit to me.
As for desiring friendship, yeah, kind of I suppose – I never really thought much about it. It’s not the same way I desire a really good steak, like a driving need that I feel compelled to quench. More in an abstract, “that’d be nice,” sort of way, I suppose.
But that’s beside the thread, I’m curious as to why I can’t find any of these folks.
And sorry about the he/she mix up.
Thank you. I’ll look into some college classes, if there’s anything interesting.
Sure. You calling someone a moron is certainly not a judgment since your psychiatry degrees allow you to make this objective assessment.
Then don’t bitch about not being able to find yourself any friends.
I’m not sure how “Good food, a good book, a brain teaser and I’m ready to go” can be taken out of context unless by ‘brain’ you meant ‘dick.’
I think you have trouble defining ‘important’ and ‘meaningful.’
Because according to you, average is half a penis, one testicle and one breast - illustrating just how stupid and ugly the idea of ‘average’ or ‘ordinary’ is.
Not necessary Todderbob. I’m bored and agitated enough.
Probably because pretty much anything anyone suggests, all based on what you have actually written yourself, is then pedantically countered by you.
Ah, no, **Toddlerbob **- only you reflect yourself in what you write in your posts.
In my humble opinion, you don’t have any friends to speak of not because you “can’t find anyone you like” but because you seem really, well, unlikable. Pedantic, insistent, judgmental, inflexible, self-obsessed, narcissistic, superior, infallible, arrogant, prone to exaggeration, narrow-minded, ungrateful, socially inept and lazy.
It’s because you don’t get that people are annoying until you spend enough time with them to no longer find them annoying. Friendship is all about spending time with people, and you refuse to do that unless they fit a certain standard of “not annoying you.” You’re poisoning the well
You have a very low tolerance for what you consider annoying. This puts you at a disadvantage in trying to make friends. Annoying is not some fixed standard, and you are annoyed by a lot of things.
You also are taking an adversarial position against a majority of the people in this thread that are trying to help. If you do this in real life, then people may be annoying to you because they don’t like the way you are talking to them. If it is true that you still have a high potential number of friends, then that means they are doing what you are failing to do: overlooking this negative trait in order to try to form a friendship.
The solution is therefore to fake it until you make it. Be friendly, even though you don’t want to be. People are going to annoy you, because you aren’t used to them. This is normal. But you’ve got to over look it.
But don’t go overboard–you are an introvert, and this will drain you a lot. But if you are serious about wanting friends, this is what you have to do. You can do it in small steps, but you’ve got to inoculate yourself from being annoyed by so many things.
You can’t make other people not do the things that annoy you, but you can change yourself where you will not be as annoyed by all these things.
I really hope this helps.