Why Do So Many Men Do This? (Relationship-related)

In My Humble Opinion
61

And here I think you have keyed into one aspect of successful relationships. Different people dial it back to different points in post-courtship. One of the things anyone needs to look at at a “comfort” stage of a relationship is whether their level of expressiveness about their feelings for you is something that you will continue to be happy with, or will slowly drive you around the bend.

i.e. if you both dial it up to 10 (on a 1-10 scale) for courtship, and when comfortable she dials it back to a 5 but he dials it back to a 2, there’s likely to be a problem.

You and your wife on the other hand seem to have dialed it back to about the same point and are therefore quite happy with one another.

62

That completely unattributed story is from Dave Barry’s Complete Guide to Guys.

Oh, and saoirse, absolutely brilliant ;).

63

How are you doing :slight_smile:

64

Apologies for the double post, but it’s also incomplete. I remember the phrase “still shifting like a goddamned garbage truck” in the actual book, and it’s not present in that excerpt.

:sigh:

Sorry, what were we talking about?

65

Hmmm. Nah, that’s not it.

66

Not to hijack this into a character analysis of msmith or anything, but we did a whole long thread on his apparent misogyny, and surprisingly enough, it turns out that he isn’t misogynistic at all - just really, really blunt. That could make him a misanthropist; I haven’t really thought about it.

67

Sorry, I meant to say “he isn’t misogynistic after all,” rather than “at all.”

68

mssmith reminds me exactly of the type of upper-middle class white professional men I knew in law school. They either amuse you or make you upset. I kinda liked all of them, they’re pretty easy to work with as long as you can laugh off their arrogance.

69

In my defense, I never said that women are more sophisticated. And I meant “shallow” in a literal fashion - as in being clearly visible on the surface with nothing hidden down deeper. I see no reason to assume this is a bad characteristic.

70

It is a mistake to think anything you see in months 1-3 of a relationship is real. It is a bigger mistake to fall in love during that phase. That’s the point when the chemicals triggered by relationships are at their highest, your judgment is impaired, and all you can really know about the new person is the good bits. This is magnified if that individual, for whatever reason (sometimes it’s not even a conscious desire), wishes you not to know what he (or she) is really like.

Unfortunately, people conditioned by society to believe in inanities like ‘love at first sight’ and that people can and should fall in love FAST allow themselves to be swept up in the feelings generated during the first flush of chemical lunacy only to find things changing as time passes. And an awful lot of them keep thinking that the way it was at the beginning is the way it’s supposed to be - and they spend the rest of the relationship harking back to the glory days and hoping they’ll return. They never do.

Though the articles about oxytocin and the like say that the effects can dissipate anywhere between 18 months and 3 years later, linky (that’s just one link but you’ll find the same info lots of places if you search on oxytocin and Helen Fisher) most people seem to report that the shine wears off the new person starting between 3 and 6 months and rarely lasts beyond 9 months. During that time, the partners get to know each other better; the ‘sales pitch’ behaviour they used in the early stages of the relationship wears off, and people who have unpleasant traits become less able to suppress them.

If you get through the initial flush of chemistry and the second phase of beginning to see the truth and you’re still enthralled, then you may safely consider yourself ‘in love’ around the 9-12 month mark when you truly understand what you’re getting into. To do otherwise, IMHO, is inviting disappointment and downfall.

The concept of romantic love is a fairly recent phenomenon, and surely by now people must realize it’s badly flawed. Now we know more about how we work internally, we’re armed to make different choices based on that knowledge.

In short, in matters of the heart, don’t trust yourself to be sane or rational. Make a pact with you that you will not allow yourself to believe what you think you see until sufficient time has passed. Nothing is harmed by waiting if the relationship has promise; much is harmed by jumping too fast into what often prove to be hurtful (or even harmful) situations.

71

sigh

::does the male equivalent of batting eyelashes and/or dropping handkerchief::

Q

72

If I may speculate in generalities:

American men are not (or have never learned how to be) comfortable expressing thier intimate and emotional side.

Some of that stems from what we learn to mean “being a man means thus and thus”. (Social upbringing, I guess is the term I am looking for.)

Defence mechanism, too. You did that yourself by “going slow”, at least at first. Most guys don’t want thier heart ripped out and punted across the room by being rejected by someone they “fell” for…

So anywho, once he has “won” your heart, and you began an intimate relationship with him, he subconsiously figures that you “know” that he loves (or at least is falling) you. Constant outpourings are both tough to do, and even counterproductive after a time.

Consider: If he mooned over you all the time, every day, every week, every year, you would eventually get sick of it, I am guessing…

There you are, perched on the toilet. In he walks: “Hi, pookie! Just came in to say I love you, and to see if your all right. Kisses?” You are gonna think “Ya know, I have been able to poop without needing help since I was 2. Sheesh dude. Give a girl some privacy!”

73

I’ve taken another look at the thread, and I think you’re right. I’m probably just carrying a bit of baggage from previous relationship threads wherein everything women do in relationships is classified as game-playing, but everything men do is just “men being men.” (yeah, issues, I have some, thanks)

**Alice, ** good to hear. I didn’t mean to imply, if I did, that he was being horribly creepy and you should run away immediately. I hadn’t read your thread on the subject. If I had, it would have helped me a lot. I seem to be running at a rather low level of comprehension these days.

74

You know, problems also happen in relationships when guys don’t do this. I made this mistake once when I was younger. I was dumped before because I was so sappy, open, nice, and apparently by her lights clingy and dependable. She went and found somebody else, who didn’t kiss her ass. I didn’t realize why for a couple of years, but I’m pretty sure that’s why, based on subtext in what she said to me about the breakup and how it happened. It’s hard to respect anyone who constantly kisses your ass, and most people find it hard to love someone who doesn’t hold their respect.

The only constant in relationships is change. Does he show you in other ways that he cares about you? Does he make an effort to spend time with you? Does he treat you well when you’re together? Is he generally thoughtful and nice to you? If yes, then the problem here is incompatible timing on the courtship phase, like other people in this thread have said, but I don’t think there’s a huge problem in your relationship. Besides, it’s still pretty new. If you find out in the coming weeks that you don’t really like him much for other reasons, then it’s time to find someone else, but breaking up with him just because things have calmed down is probably a bit premature.

If those things are true, it’s also unlikely that he’s just banging you until a better piece of ass comes along too. It’s not worth the effort to be actually nice to someone you don’t like, no matter what the reward, unless you’re a bit of a sociopath and deception comes naturally. People like that are actually not that common.

75

Can’t you just say what you think- don’t hold back? :slight_smile:

76

I don’t know, but shouldn’t the OP worried more about how the BF is treating her now? Is he understanding, mature and look out for her? Do they get along well? How is his character? Is there enough common ground to build a relationship on? How is his level of commitment?

I’m sure the last one is not measured by the number of sentimental emails you get, but what life’s hard bumps come…

77

I’m really feeling much better about the whole thing. A big part of it, I think, stems from the fact that I’m very feminine, and he is very masculine. We are total stereotypes of our genders- he is stoic and not forthcoming with his feelings, and I thrive on feelings and talking about them. But he was more like me in that respect in the beginning, and now he’s more like how he really is. I guess I just wasn’t prepared for that.

He used to show his affection with outpourings of devotion, now he shows it by giving me noogies and farting around me. At any rate, I’m in love with him, so I’ll take what I can get.

78

Even though you might be wrong in this thread, I always like your posts.

79

It makes me a little sad that you think that making the one you love feel beautiful and appreciated by continuing to court throughout the relationship isn’t a good thing. Do you just not think about sending that “I love you madly” email or do you just think it isn’t necessary? Why not make her day 20 or 30 times a year? “Having to do it” isn’t the point. My point was every person wants to feel thought of and the courting ritual shouldn’t have to end when people get comfortable.

80

Oh, don’t be sad. My wife knows perfectly well that I think her beautiful, and that I appreciate her. The answer to your question - do I not think about it or do I think it not neccessary to send “I love you madly” e-mails - is, frankly, neither. My relationship with her is a hundred times more interesting than “I love you madly.” “I love you madly” would do no justice to it, would frankly minimize it. My point is that flowers and sappy e-mails are - as someone much more precise than I said upthread - just signifiers for love and admiration. They don’t mean anything.

Every (standard) day, I cook for my wife and daughter. I very seldom make macaroni and cheese and burgers; I enjoy finding ways to combine and elaborate on the foods and ingredients I know they love. It’s not big or showy, but when I make a new chicken dish combining four of my wife’s favorite ingredients? That’s love.

In the morning, if I am having trouble getting moving, my wife will make me a cup of tea without being asked or asking. Sometimes, if we have it, there’s Cool-Whip on it (yes, on tea, and don’t judge me!) That’s love.

When she has a concert, I go to her school and help set up, if I can, and help break down at the end. That’s love.

When we visit an unfamiliar city, she inevitably gets tickets to a baseball game, because one of my minor life goals is to see a game in every major league stadium in the country. She also knows that I have an interest in seeing the game from a lot of angles, and keeps track of where we’ve sat in the past so as to vary things up. That’s love.

When she has trouble with a co-worker, I listen, and try to help her deal with problem if that’s what she needs, or make a joke if that’s what she needs, or just provide a sympathetic ear if that’s what she needs. That’s love.

When I have trouble with a co-worker, she does the same. That’s love.

When we do a show together (I as a director, she as a musical director), I consider her statements to be absolute gospel, because I think she’s a brilliant and creative musician. I always incorporate her suggestions and she mine. That’s admiration.

If I like a TV show and she doesn’t, she’ll learn to like it, and vice versa. That’s love.

I entrust the care and teaching of my daughter, the best thing I’ve ever had in my life, to her, and she to me. That’s admiration.

To me, my marriage is about seeing the love and admiration coming out of every activity, no matter how ostensibly routine. Flowers and sappy e-mails are a waste of time when we could be casting for a show, discussing this evening’s appetizer menu, or sadly reviewing the too-short tenure of poor Jonathan from SURVIVOR. Those are the things that bring us joy, both of themselves and because we share them with one another. Those are things that will last. Sappy e-mails anyone can send to anyone. Only my wife would ever put Cool-Whip on my tea, in the morning, without asking, and that’s much better.