Why do women say the opposite of what they mean?

The BBQ Pit
81

But see, I would MUCH MUCH prefer for my wife to simply say, “Honey, the trash needs to be taken out” rather than tell me “The trash is getting full.” Because the next day, when I haven’t taken out the trash, she will then say “Why didn’t you take out the trash when I asked you?”

I see “The trash needs to be taken out” and “The trash can is getting full” as both statements of fact. Neither is a nag, to me. In the first, though, I know, without a doubt, my wife expects me to do something. In the second, there’s no implied action. (Well, now I know there is … after we had a couple of discussions about it.)

82

Stupid thoughts from stupid brain:

When wife asks seemingly pointless question, “Y’know, the paint on the wall is peeling,” why couldn’t you say, instead of “yep,” say "Could you translate, hon? Does that mean you’d like the wall painted or just knocked down? "

Base on your posts, Sauron, you seem to know you’ve been given a hint – she could state it clearly, I agree, but you, also, could simply ask for a vetting of your interpretation, right? I’m just saying, it takes two to miscommunicate. If you state your interpretation, she’ll ALSO know that “Yep” means “Your observation is accurate, captain” as opposed to “I’ll fix it, just don’t mention it again, or you’re a nag, and I won’t fix it.” Or do you object to the whole hint/diplomatic method of communication?
I don’t know; I see this with roomates, too. Sometimes I say: “God, the kitchen is filthy.” Meaning, “Let’s address it.” Without sounding like a prig or a pansy resolution builder.

Personally, when people “ask” a.k.a. order me do to things, I admit to the occasional bridle. If I disagree with the need, I might forget to do it. If I thought I should’ve noticed, and feel guilty, I might not do it because it’s better to be a jerk than let someone else make me feel guilty. And if I’m asked twice I definitely won’t do it, because I heard you the first time, and now you’re just a nag. Ok, I’m a jerk sometimes. News Flash!

Ooh! Also, I fully prefer the optional/tangental method, but only if it’s truly optional, false choices just cause grating hangnail annoyance later. Much better to fight, IMHO. I hate this discussion:

“I asked you all week to take out the trash!”

“No you didn’t! You just said you wished you had a larger trash bin 5 times! I bought a larger trash bin, damn it!”

Here are some of the conflict resolutions I use with my roomates, FWIW:

[ul]1) Non-verbal reminders. Bills get pinned to the fridge, rather than shoved into someone’s face.

  1. Separation of space. If I feel that the stove isn’t being cleaned by anyone but me, I’ll clean one burner only, and use that one.

  2. Time assignment. Sunday night is cleaning night. I check everything in the house. If I’ve forgotten to do something, it gets cleaned. No roomates need suffer something more than 7 days.

  3. Task assignment. Used sparingly, for either completely mundane tasks or special skill allocation

  4. Process assignment: Mail goes in this nice mail basket, since it’s more efficient than our current method of wherever’s handy.

  5. Gold Star/Black Star. Last one to write the rent check has to mail it![/ul]

83

Not quite the same situation, though. You genuinely don’t care, so you take suggestions that are offered, or let him pick and are content with that. In the OP, however, it sounded like she really did care but refused to express a preference, making him guess at what it was she wanted.

Sometimes my fella and I want to go out to eat, and he asks me where I want to go. Now, sometimes I’m just not sure where I want to go, but I don’t say, “I don’t care,” because I do care. So I say, “I don’t know.” He will then offer suggestions, and I will take one of those, or perhaps his suggestions will cause me to think of a different place I would like to go to.

And in regards to the trash issue, Sauron, would your wife feel comfortable with asking you to take it out? I can understand her not wanting to feel like she’s ordering you around, but perhaps asking would be a middle ground between that and what you’ve got now. I don’t want to tell my soon-to-be-husband what to do, but I am comfortable with saying, “Honey, would you please come here and help me with this?” I’m being polite while still expressing my wishes clearly.

84

Apparently that “seeing what’s dirty” thing that women do isn’t genetic, it’s learned. I don’t have it. I’ve had a few disputes with roommates, and frankly it’s hard for them to walk that line of telling me exactly what to do WITHOUT getting frustrated or snide that I’m totally not noticing how my feet stick to the floor. So what we came up with, is the Standard of Cleanliness. I’ve done this with every roomie so far. When we first move in, we go through every room in the house and make a list of things that belong in it, and tasks that are done to clean it. So, even someone who can’t figure out where to start can get the list and see, for the kitchen:

  1. Retrieve dirty dishes from other rooms. Remove and put up all non-kitchen items (books, laundry, etc.).
  2. Open fridge and check for expired foodstuffs. Empty any dishes and place in the dirty dishes pile.
  3. Wash, dry, and put up dishes. Clean sink.
  4. Put spices and foods back in the cabinets. Throw away any empty packaging.
  5. Wipe down counters and clean stove.
  6. Take out trash.
  7. Sweep floor, mop if needed.

This way we all agree on what makes it CLEAN, and when one person doesn’t do everything on the list, it’s not “You didn’t clean it the way I like it” it’s “you didn’t clean it the way we agreed it would be done” and it’s not so accusatory. The one who wants it cleanest doesn’t have to stand around with a whip, and the one who doesn’t think about how clean things are doesn’t get out of their share of the work.

Oh, and I’ve never lived with a woman (since my mom, of course). All my roomies have been guys.

Corr

85

When somebody starts hinting and what have you I just take things at face value. Some people need to work on their communications skills, and I’m petty enough to be perfectly happy with ignoring hints until they get the clue and begin communicating their thoughts more clearly.

86

For restaurants I agree with the “taking turns” method. I think of it as limited veto power:

If we’re trying to figure out where to eat, and I make a suggestion, and you don’t like it, you have to make an alternate, reasonable suggestion of where to eat. If you don’t do this, then we’re eating at the place I suggested.

That’s not me being snarky. It’s just that it’s sometimes hard to think of somewhere good to eat, and it’s easy (especially when you’re hungry and cranky) to shoot down ideas. This method keeps dinner-companions from getting annoyed at one another, and it makes people less likely to shoot down ideas (since if they do, they’ll have to come up with an idea themselves).

Daniel

87

This message brought to you by the Trash Bag Manufacturers of America.

[sub]WOO-HOO! Sales just went up 50%!!![/sub]

I just wanted to see that written again.

88

For the record (again), Mrs. Sauron and I have basically resolved the trash issue. I now know what she means when she says the trash is getting full, and she (more often than not) will ask me to take the trash out if she wants it out. Actually, though, what usually happens is I check the trash almost every day, and if it’s getting full I take it out. The planarian learns!

I brought up the trash issue as an example of her saying one thing and meaning another. I didn’t mean it was an ongoing conflict, but I appreciate the suggestions.

89

I think as a child I said ‘I don’t care’ when I didn’t really mean it, both when I couldn’t decide, though there were some things I didn’t want, or when I wanted something I felt my parents wouldn’t like.

If someone seems to be doing this, I’d suggest trying offering a few suggestions:

H: Which restaurant?
W: I don’t mind.
H: Perhaps pizza? Or would you rather an indian or a chinese?
W1: Indian sounds nice.
W2: Not Indian, otherwise I don’t mind.
W3: Or how about … ?

Sort of tentatively feeling toward an agreement. The wife in this example can pick a suggestion she knows the husband’s ok with, or realise she does have some, if negative preference, perhaps spurring a descicion.

A contributary factor might be that given a food you know instantly if you like it, but it’s hard to list all foods you don’t like. Our minds often work one way, for instance we get a headache trying to think of a 3+ letter word that starts and ends ‘he’ but seeing the answer can tell that it does easily.

90

I have several things to reply to:

Restaurant: When peasea asks me what I want for dinner if we’re going out, a lot of the time I will say “I dunno, what do you want?” It’s not because I’m looking for a particular answer and I want him to somehow mysteriously divine my thoughts. It’s because I honestly don’t know. Then when he starts suggesting places, I think about it a minute and realize that no, I really don’t want that and say it. I do provide suggestions if I think of anything appealing.

I can’t stand the wishy-washy behavior. There are two kinds of this: the kind like my grandmother, who grew up following what her father, and then her husband decided. He was the lord of the manor, and thus she did what he wanted. She drives me and my mother nuts sometimes when we ask her what she wants to do and she NEVER expresses an opinion.

Also, the people who don’t express an opinion but who have one they don’t want to say (like the OP). I agree that agressive and opinionated women are sometimes seen as bitchy or nagging. But there’s a point that’s just too much. Yes, sometimes I am guilty of certain passive agressive behaviors (see below, but I hope it’s not often), but for the most part I say what I mean, or I am aware of what I’ve said and thus cannot hold it against peasea for going by what I’ve said. If he asks me if it’s ok to go out with the guys and I say “I guess” or “sure” or anything that sounds like a positive response, I have no right to then hold it against him when he does. I have my own life and I don’t mind being alone.

I have been known to say something along the lines of “the trash needs to be taken out.” At least, I can recall doing so with past roommates. I am generally a very nice person and I don’t like to nag or say “you have to do it right now.” I realize that everyone else doesn’t revolve around my schedule, so I like to give some leeway. But if I’ve mentioned it and it’s their turn (I had enormous problems with roomies for this…my room was right next to the kitchen, so I was the only one who took out the trash when it started smelling), then I’m going to be a little peeved when they don’t do it, even if I just mention it indirectly.

On the other hand, if someone said “the trash is getting full” to me, I’d probably respond with something the same “yes it is” or whatever because it would seem like nagging. If you’ve noticed the trash is full (and the jobs aren’t clearly defined) then take it out yourself. Just like my mother always used to respond to me asking what was for dinner: “what’re you cooking?”

So, to get back to the OP, I’d say that yes, she’s probably hoping you’re going to somehow read her mind or figure out what she wants you to do. She probably figures you “should know her well enough” to divine it or something. That may not be the case, but from what I’ve heard it sounds kind of like it. All you can really do is ask her a couple times to make sure she’s saying it’s ok, then if she says it’s not ok, then call her on it. If she really feels strongly about it, but chooses to express something opposite to what she’s feeling, then she’s got to deal with the consequences: you doing exactly what she said you could do. Hopefully, when she’s been called on it enough times she’ll start to be more direct.

91

Sauron, I know you’re tired of talking trash, but let me explain what I meant. Of course I understand the difference between “asking” and “ordering.” What I was trying to say is that it only takes so many times of folks “asking” someone to do something before the request begins to sound like an order. I didn’t mean to imply that you and your missus order each other around or even that I order folks around. I hope this is clearer. I’ll repeat. I’m glad you and your missus are making strides towards more effective communication. :slight_smile:

[celestina fingering her virtual paddle]

Easy Phil, I well understand the necessity for trust in a relationship. My concern is with the necessity for respect in a relationship. Some fellas who try to hold out until their SOs get fed up and do their chores for them are giving their SOs the sense that they don’t respect them, but rather are dismissing their concerns for a more sanitary living situation. If they can’t communicate effectively, reach a compromise, and respect each others’ wishes on the small matters, then that’s not a very good indication for the big matters in a relationship. Does this make sense?

92

celestina, which came first the chicken or the egg? Why are these fellas acting this way? Just out of spite or in spite of something? If they’re holding out on taking the trash out because of a power thing, yeah there’s something up with the relationship, and they probably don’t respect their partner and their partner probably doesn’t repect them either.

When I said trust that I’m going to do what I’m supposed to do it also means give me the respect and assume that I’m going to do it.

93

Thanks to Celestina for assuming that I was teasing ** Dooku** I was, but perhaps more harshly than I would’ve outside of The Pit. In GQ, I might have considered his question more seriously, but there he couldn’t use a large font to write fuck.

His OP asks why women say the opposite of what they think and I was making a point, being a woman. He later clarifies that he only means woman in his personal experience. In my personal experience, he reacted to my teasing with the attitude of a man who is unaccustomed to being teased about his gifts or lack thereof. I could start a thread asking why men with communication issues have trouble with their mojos, but that would take far more research than I would be willing to undertake, on a personal level.

94

Cyn, I don’t see why anyone should be teased about their gifts or lack thereof based on the OP. Issues with men, any?

In regards to the restaurant thing, why do women not know what they want until it’s discussed? Gwar? I tend to know what kind of food I want for dinner that morning.

Same thing when I go shopping. I’ve got my list visualized and I storm through the aisles. I go shopping with a woman, and all of sudden the list is prone to sudden fluctuation. :slight_smile: Just me, I’m sure?

95

You made your point after my clarification. So, you read my clarification, and still decided to ignore it, assume I was referring to all women, and insult me. Still waiting for an answer to my questions, BTW.

But I didn’t know you were teasing - reads more to me like a personal insult. Maybe you should have said you were teasing, inserted a smiley, something. We’re judged by our words only here - maybe we should ask how many people took your comment as just teasing me?

So, all men who have communication issues also have trouble with their mojo, huh?

Being a man, I must say that Cyn has us guys all figured out and must be the smartest woman to ever grace the board with her wisom. And I bet she’s really pretty and has big boobs too. Yup.

Sound like I’m teasing to you?

96

Wow. Whether or not you’re teasing Cyn, Dooku, except for the having fellas all figured out business, you just described me to a T. [giggle]

You’re welcome, Cyn, although I admit, I’m confoosed about your latest comment about the mojo stuff. I tease fellas all the time, but it ain’t got nothin’ to do with their mojos. :wink:

[celestina gets her virtual paddle and whacks Easy Phil on his virtual bottom.]

I declare I just don’t know what I’m going to do with you Easy Phil. Chicken and egg, indeed. But since you ask, it would seem to me to be more about chickens in that miscommunication, lack of trust, dismissal of your partner’s requests, and disrespect are chickenly behaviors, I don’t care what gender you’re talking about. Your cavalier assumption is that if there’s miscommunication and lack of trust then it must somehow be the woman’s fault is quite telling. Let me see if I can further clarify what I mean. It would seem to me that the ladies do trust their men to take out the trash/do other chores, but when some fellas purposely forget and shove that extra responsibility on the lady or consistently forgets to do those tasks he’s agreed to do–and there doesn’t have to be any kind of malicious, manipulative, or disrespectful intent involved in this case, he’s just being forgetful–then both of these incidents can be viewed as a betrayal of trust, and it can be viewed by many women as that fella being disrepectful of the lady. ?Entiendes? At least if it was me and my SO kept dismissing simple requests I made of him and that he agreed to do, then I would feel as if he doesn’t respect me and has betrayed my trust in him. Now, before y’all get your britches all in a bunch, I ain’t male-bashing, and I ain’t saying that there ain’t times when the ladies aren’t being clear enough in their requests. There are. It just seems like some folks in this thread are trying to make this issue out to be more simple than it is.

97

Danggit, and I previewed too! That third to last sentence should read: “I ain’t male-bashing, and I ain’t saying that there ain’t times when the ladies aren’t being clear enough in their requests, or are just power-tripping.”

98

I’m sorry, Ace, but I guess I’m not as organized as you are. Sometimes if I have a craving, I’ll know at 10 in the morning that I want sushi or pork or whatever for dinner. But sometimes I just either haven’t thought about it (other things on my mind), or I don’t really have a strong preference that jumps out. Once certain cuisines are proposed, then I weigh the options and decide which I want or don’t want.

And I hate making lists for shopping (grocery shopping is maybe an exception), but I’m very open to sudden fluctuation. I have a list of the basics I need. Then I see something that either I haven’t thought of or that I suddenly realize that I really want. Within the budget of course. If I got a craving for humongous king alaskan crab, I don’t think I’d be grabbing that.

I just sort of go with the flow :smiley:

99

[rubbing my smarting virtual bottom, while asking was it as good for celestina as it was for me…]

celestina, now you see, I wasn’t assuming that the woman was reponsible, you read that into it. I’m actually agreeing with you. If you tell someone that something bothers you and that person keeps doing that something, there’s a serious problem. The point I was trying to make is that if I’m responsible about doing what I’m supposed to do, I don’t need someone coming along questioning whether or not I’m going to do it or not. I mean what are they actually saying to me, in light of the fact that I’m doing what I’m supposed to do?

Now Sauron’s situation is kind of tricky, he wants to do the trash when it’s full, his SO wants it done when it’s 2/3rds full and she’s filling up the trash to the 2/3rds mark from what I can gleen from what he has posted. IMO, if the 2/3rds deal is important to her and she’s blowing up the trash, she should put it out as opposed to indirectly saying she wants him to put the trash out. At that point it becomes passive-agressive behavior.

IMO, when you operate from your ego, the issues of who is doing what and who should do what become very big very fast.

100

Don’t worry, Cheesesteak, there is still hope for you. You just described my boyfriend perfectly, but I still love him. :smiley:

Actually, I really do appreciate his frankness and honesty. He asks for my input, and if I say, "I don’t care, " he assumes that I don’t care. Being in a relationship with him has helped me to be honest with my feelings.

Honesty is a key element to any good relationship.