??? Overreact much? Read the thread again, especially where I reiterated I wasn’t talking about ALL women. Then show me where I made the claim that I had women all figured out. Then show me where I was trying to convey any sort of higher wisdom. Then show me where I conveyed the sort of machismo that would make you think it was appropriate to talk about how well hung I am. Then fuck off.
Jomo Mojo said:
Have you sat down with your Mrs. and told her exactly what you wrote here? Perhaps she doesn’t really understand that you don’t have a clue and that you need certain kinds of very specific, detailed directions for cleaning. Maybe even spell it out further for her by asking her for more specifics. Where does she want you to move the chair/plant/sofa? Maybe y’all could have some fun cleaning house together. [giggle] She can sit on the chaise lounge and supervise/direct your efforts while you clean for her. 
Maybe try that and see how things go?
Sauron, this is just fascinating. I read your wife’s pointing out to you that the trash is full another way. What’s she’s really saying to you is that she doesn’t understand why she has to ask you to take out the trash. I mean don’t you have eyes, and can’t you see that it needs to go outside? If so, then why don’t you do it rather than waiting for her to tell you to do so? Of course, it’d be much easier on you, if she’d just say what I just said, but there’s the principle of the thing. She probably feels like she shouldn’t even have to tell you what by all rights of common sense you should already know, or that she certainly shouldn’t have to constantly repeat herself if she’s already asked you to do X thing 10,000 times before already. Does that help you, hon?
I do understand your frustration about miscommunication. I declare I don’t understand what y’all fellas be saying and doing sometimes. It’s a wonder the human race has managed to get this far since we have such difficulties understanding each other. [sigh]
Dooku, calm down. I know we’re in the Pit and all, but like Cyn, I was teasing you–perhaps not as harshly–about making blanket statements about women and how they communicate [giggle], and you didn’t resort to telling me to “Fuck off.” Really, and using such language. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. But you know, if you look at this another way, it’s obvious that you don’t believe that all women say the opposite of what they mean. You took Cyn’s words exactly as she said them without interpreting them to mean the opposite of what she actually wrote. Oh dear. Now I’m confused. 
Anyways, all of y’all fellas what be complaining up in this thread about how you don’t understand what your wife/SO is saying, why are y’all complaining here? Go sit down with them and talk to them. If you don’t tell them what’s bothering you, the fact that you don’t understand their indirect communication, and you just need for them to state clearly and specifically what it is they want, then how are they going to know? Why should you continue to suffer in silence. Be advocates for yourselves! 
I know you can do it. Just take a deep breath and go in there and sit down with your woman and talk to her.
A few points, here:
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In some cases, I might not have noticed that the trash was full. If I haven’t thrown anything away for a little while (which is possible; if I cook, she cleans, and vice-versa), I might not know that the trash is getting full.
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Your interpretation of my wife’s real message goes back to what the OP was saying. If she thinks the trash needs taking out, why doesn’t she just say “Honey, the trash needs to be taken out.”?
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Whereas my wife may see a trash can that’s two-thirds full, and think to herself “That needs to be taken out,” I may see a trash can that can still hold additional stuff. Saying to me “The trash can is getting full” is an accurate statement from both perspectives, but her interpretation of that statement tacks on something else: " … so you should take it out right now." Whereas I’m simply agreeing that yes, the can is getting full, and sometime in the next day or so I should take the trash out. Both of us have applied our own interpretation to the fact that the trash can is getting full, but neither of us has voiced that interpretation accurately to the other.
As I said, though, we’re both getting better at that minor aspect of communication.
I don’t think I was being teased. I think I was being verbally abused, and I think it was over the line bulllshit. She lowered the tone - I was defending myself.
It should be obvious that I don’t believe that all women say the opposite of what they mean, because as I have already reiterated, three times now in this thread, I didn’t say ALL women. Repeat, I don’t think ALL women are this way, just the women that I have known personally, and I am fully aware that is not indicative of the ENTIRE RACE OF WOMEN. I also don’t wander around like a cartoon robot thinking every woman is literally saying the exact opposite of what they mean.
My wife and I talk about this all the time. She knows she has a problem communicating and is working on it. We have a happy, loving marriage, with the same little disagreements everybody else has. There’s no suffering in silence going on here, although I appreciate your concern. Why am I complaining here? Because this is the forum for ranting and complaining and I wanted to vent a little, see if other guys have this same problem, and they do. That’s all.
I have the same problem.
I try to remember to deal with it by talking about the conversation, as well as having the conversation, and by giving her responsibility.
That is to say, (in relation to your first example, say) I will say “You are saying that you don’t mind where we eat, but each suggestion I have made you have knocked back, how do you suggest I deal with that?”
Or in relation to the second or third example, “We are having one of those conversations again where I ask you if something’s OK and you say it is but then it turns out that it isn’t. How should I handle this so that when I do what you say you want you don’t get mad at me later?”
And if you try this sort of tactic, and she keeps insisting that she doesn’t mind or care or have any opinion, (but you know she does), talk about her non-answer. Highlight it. Write it down in front of her. Anything to make her realise that she is actually saying something and you are actually listening and you are actually doing what she says.
I have never actually got to the stage of having to write my wife’s responses down. But threatening to do so and threatening to make her eat her written down words (figuratively speaking:)) later if she tries to back away from what she said has brought her prevarication to an abrupt halt a couple of times.
Of course I don’t manage the situation as well as the forgoing might suggest, most of the time. It’s easy to do while sitting here typing and hard to do on the spot.
And by the way, if you want a good laugh with someone who has this problem, check out this website.
It would make sense to me, that if you see that the trash is full and talk about, you can also put it out, unless of course you have some disablity that keeps you from being able to do it. 
Deborah Tannen’s books You Just Don’t Understand and That’s Not What I Meant! give helpful analyses of the levels of meaning and expression at work in these kinds of problem conversations, and useful ways to help all parties understand one another’s real meaning without getting hung up on the mode of expression. Tannen is a professor of linguistics at Georgetown University, and she did a pretty good job of showing how a little linguistic science can go a long way toward straightening out these verbal tangles.
magic8ball, it was just a joke! Jeez!
All kidding aside, I LOVE you women-folk! This planet would be WAY too dull without you. (And that’s without even considering the prospect of asexual reproduction SHUDDER!)
For the record, in my relationship with Astrogirl, I’m usually the one saying “I don’t care.” when presented with choices. Why? Because I don’t frigging CARE! (read this as: I trust AG enough to know that she won’t suggest we eat fish, as she knows I don’t like fish… she will suggest that we eat something that she knows both of us enjoy… she’s funny that way!)
As for feeling superior, HELL YEAH I feel superior! I am the end product of millions of years of evolution! My species tamed this world, and squashed every competing species under our collective heels (well except maybe them damn rats and bugs. But we got plans!). We own the stars (at least so far as we know no one else has claimed them…)! We RULE! High-fives! Group hugs! Whooo-Hooo!
OK, seriously… I don’t necessarily feel superior to women: I take it case-by-case, and skill-by-skill. Example: Astrogirl. She is smarter than I am, while I am more worldly and experienced (this means that while I can seriously kick her ass at trivial pursuit, when we encounter one of those “what the fuck do we do now” moments, I defer to her judgement.). Draw. She is more emotional than me, I am more controlled. Qualified draw… depends on the situation. She has better money skills, while money in my hands seems to evaporate. Point: AG. I am stronger, and more likely to succeed in opening that jar of pickles than AG. Point: Me! (Whoo Hoo! Go team!)
I could go on, but who is superior? Me or Astrogirl?
The obvious answer is: Me, of course! It’s my post… she isn’t here to stop me. Ha! I win! Neener, neener, neener!
Come on, now. Do you REALLY think that all men feel that they are superior to women? Granted, you may run across a few male neanderthals that evolution has not yet had time to deal with, but I think you’ll find that most men are products of MODERN education and socialization, and do not really feel superior to women at all! Either that, or I really AM superior, and possess an intellect that is unusual in this life. Sadly, however, I fear that this is not the case… there go my plans for world domination…
Sometimes I wake up from a nap, and wonder why my arm feels numb… I look to the left, and see Astrogirl asleep, with her head resting on my arm and cutting off the circulation… A bit of cold drool rests in my armpit, but it’s her drool, so it’s OK.
Sometimes I’ll be waiting to meet Astrogirl, and I’ll see a BABE walking up the street towards me, and think ‘Whoa! BABY!,’ and then a few seconds later realize that it is HER. That incredibly beautiful woman coming this way IS Astrogirl!
Sometimes I have had a really bad day, or I am worried about something, and I see Astrogirl after work, and she laughs at me because a lock of my hair has escaped the grasp of my mousse, and formed what she calls “your Superman curl” on my forehead… and suddenly everything is OK.
I should feel privileged?
Believe me… I do!
Am I the only person reading this thread who is currently wondering why Mrs. Sauron is even mentioning that the trash is full and thereby engaging in the “I’m saying X, but what I really mean is Y and why is my husband too stupid to interpret my unstated desires”? Why doesn’t she just…oh, I don’t know…take out the trash instead of launching the passive-aggressive missile?
Well, in Mrs. Sauron’s defense, the trash is one of the chores that has been identified as my responsibility. We don’t have any hard-and-fast rules about chores, per se, but in general I handle the trash, the vacuuming, the sweeping, the mopping and the dusting. She handles the kitchen, the bathrooms, the laundry and straightening the bedrooms. So usually I’m the one that takes out the trash. I’ve got no problem with that.
No you’re not the only one. How does she know that he wasn’t going to take out the trash? If it’s his chore to do, why doesn’t she trust him to take care of it?
Well, to be truthful, sometimes I am slow about taking out the trash. The outside can is waaaay around the corner of the house, where it gets really dark at night, and there might be monsters there. Besides, I’m lazy. And frankly, the sight of a trash can two-thirds full bothers my wife, while it doesn’t affect me the same way. What it boils down to is, she wants the trash taken out on a more frequent basis than I normally do it. But again, my point isn’t that she should take out the trash, or just wait on me to do it and shut up. My point is that if she wants the trash taken out, she should say, “Honey, please take out the trash.” She should not say, “The trash can is getting full.”
I do not expect her to take out the trash, because I know she doesn’t like to do it herself. That’s not a problem at all.
Dooku, thanks for answering my questions, hon, and for starting such an interesting thread. Y’all fellas sure are cute when you’re bitching about having trouble communicating with your SOs. I wish you and your missus luck straightening things out.
Sauron, thanks for clarifying. About your wife being indirect, I understand your need for her to just tell you to take out the trash ASAP, but do you understand how she may not feel like ordering you to do that, especially if she’s had to ask you many times before? I know if it was me, I’d feel tired of repeating myself and sounding like a broken record. Of course if it was me, I’d be blunt, and if my telling the fella to take out the trash right now didn’t work, then I’d find other ways to get the message across. [giggle] By the time I get through, he wouldn’t be wondering at all what I mean. Still I’m glad you and your missus are getting better at communicating effectively.
Easy Phil, oh no you don’t. Some of you fellas think you’re slick. Talk about passive-aggressive behavior. Some fellas would just leave the trash there, hoping that their lady friends will get tired of it sitting there overflowing and stinking and tired of waiting for their fellas to take it out, and take it out themselves. That’s not fair, especially if it’s the fella’s assigned chore. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to friends and heard them tell me how frustrated they are that their men won’t do their chores unless pushed to do so, and oftentimes they put off doing stuff, knowing that their missus will get tired of the bullshit and take out the trash and do their other neglected chores for them. I even have some very nasty neighbors who leave their trash right outside their door for days. It just sits there creating a stinking, unsanitary eyesore and piling up, and the sad thing is the big trash can isn’t that far from their door. :rolleyes: They’re just too lazy to carry it an extra few steps and put it in there. This I honestly don’t understand. So it’s not a question of the lady getting off her high horse and taking out the trash. Sometimes it’s about manipulation or just plain ol’ utter laziness and sloth.
Sauron, it is possible that your wife is trying to avoid being an irritating nag, ordering you to take out the trash. Perhaps she just wants to let you know that the trash is nearly full, if you hadn’t noticed it yet. A little nudge in the right direction, if you will.
I’ll say this, if you KNOW a 2/3rds full trash can bothers her, take it out when it’s 2/3rds full. I think that would be a very nice thing you can do for her. Sometimes these little things make a big difference.
Cheesesteak:
Your solution is part of what I meant when I said we were both getting better about this communication problem. I’m more familiar with her comfort level regarding the amount of trash in the can, and she’s better about asking me to take it out when she wants it taken out. If I see that it’s getting full, I’ll take it out before she says anything. She’s getting better about asking me to take it out, rather than just saying it’s getting full.
And celestina, surely you can see the difference between ordering someone to take out the trash and asking someone to take out the trash. My wife and I never order each other around. That’s ridiculous.
I have no problem with her asking me to take the trash out. Sometimes a couple of days might go by before I set foot in the pantry where the trashcan resides, so if it gets full in the interim I wouldn’t know. If Mrs. Sauron notices, and asks me to take it out, I’ll do it.
I hate to be a nag. So I tend to phrase requests in ways that don’t sound like I’m nagging.
If trash were a problem in our house (it isn’t - at least on my part, my husband has a much lower trash bin tolerence than I do), I’d never say “Honey, please take out the trash” on a regular basis. I’d say it, but not every time - every time is nagging. So Sauron, your wife may be looking for other ways to get you to take the trash out without sounding like a nag.
Guys don’t get this. If women are assertive, they are a bitch. If they ask repeatedly for you to do something, they are a nag. Many women do not want their SOs to see them as a nag or a bitch, so they drive you crazy with the passive aggressive shit.
A man is assertive and he is assertive. He asks his wife repeatedly to do something and he seldom gets called a nag (maybe a controlling bastard, but seldom a nag)
Ha ha, ha ha. Like I said, if I’m responsible for the trash, trust me to take the trash out. In Sauron’s case, his wife wants the trash out when it’s 2/3rds full, though he sometimes doesn’t get a chance to see the trash while she’s filling it up. This is what makes sense to me; If you fill up the trash and need to have it dumped when it’s 2/3rds full, just take it out, unless you have something against taking out trash. To me this analgous to a man asking his wife did she add x or y ingredient to someting she’s cooking, or asking if she put x amount of fabric softner into the wash, or going through the bills and reminding her that it’s time to send the payment off because he feels like the date is too close to the due date. No one is perfect, but one does have to trust that the other is going to do their part.
Ha ha, ha ha. Like I said, if I’m responsible for the trash, trust me to take the trash out. In Sauron’s case, his wife wants the trash out when it’s 2/3rds full, though he sometimes doesn’t get a chance to see the trash while she’s filling it up. This is what makes sense to me; If you fill up the trash and need to have it dumped when it’s 2/3rds full, just take it out, unless you have something against taking out trash. To me this analgous to a man asking his wife did she add x or y ingredient to someting she’s cooking, or asking if she put x amount of fabric softner into the wash, or going through the bills and reminding her that it’s time to send the payment off because he feels like the date is too close to the due date. No one is perfect, but one does have to trust that the other is going to do their part.
Trash
Bin
Tolerance?
Gwar?
I’m so not ready to get married.
Not that I’m in any danger, but still.
In all seriousness, Ace0Spades, it’s issues like this that can significantly undermine a marriage. On one level, the screaming argument you just had about taking out the trash seems utterly ridiculous. On another level, both partners feel that their desires and wishes aren’t given any significance by the other. Again, it’s a lack of communication (or miscommunication) that rocks the boat.
Not that my wife and I have screaming arguments about trash. We reserve our knock-down-drag-outs for the important stuff, like spending five dollars on lunch.