Why [some] women go for jerks: a theory

In My Humble Opinion
1

Last night, my wife (of three weeks) and I were discussing why so many (though certainly not all) women seem to go for guys that are real jerks, and then complain about how there are no “nice guys” anywhere. My wife, of course, said that she was so glad that she found me – a nice guy – and that she simply couldn’t understand why so many of her friends only date guys who turn out to be jerks.

Well, I came up with this theory…

Basically, it all comes down to testosterone. Testosterone is what makes a man “manly” and “sexy”. It gives him the body type, muscles, and other secondary sexual characteristics such as chest and facial hair that many women find attractive. High testosterone also can make a man more aggressive, which women often perceive as confidence.

Aggression, however, leads to becoming domineering and controlling, with physical abuse often thrown into the mix. High testosterone levels may also mean the man is constantly on the prowl for the next sexual conquest. In other words, high testosterone levels simultaneously make a man give off the signals that many women perceive as attractiveand act like a jerk.

Guys with lower testosterone levels, on the other hand, are not as aggressive, do not have the need to be controlling and domineering, and are not obsessed with “spreading their seed” with any many partners as possible. In other words, they are “nice guys.” Unfortunately, they are also often perceived as being “wimps” or “passive” and many women do not find them attractive as a result.

There are, I’m sure, many exceptions to this rule. There are guys out there with high testosterone levels who manage to overcome their biological programming and do not turn into jerks. Similarly, low testosterone levels do not guarantee that a guy will be nice (he could still be a complete jerk for completely different reasons). But I still think that, on the whole, the very qualities that many women find attractive in a man are inextricably linked to qualities that make him a jerk, and both can be traced to testosterone levels.

[Now, if only I could explain why so many guys go after women that look like total bimbos, and then complain that they are stupid, have a bad personality, etc. ;)]

Regards,

Barry

2

I refute your theory…or at least provide the exception.

The one big jerk in my past was a drama queen, who was short, both in height and in, umm, other departments. I think he was overcompensating for his lack of manpower :stuck_out_tongue: An emotional, whiny bitch, basically.

Your theory does make sense, though.

3

I have another theory.

[some] Woman says, “you’re too nice!”

But see, “you’re too nice” is simply [some] women’s polite way of saying, “I’m just not attacted to you, and although I like your company, I want you to stop hitting on me.”

Nonetheless, [some] men get the excuse in their heads, “She doesn’t want me because I’m nice! Women only go for jerks! Damn those jerks!”

Sometimes it’s not your “niceness”. It could be your bad breath, poor social skills, annoying laugh, nerdiness, narrow-mindedness or whatever. Don’t go for the easy excuse – and the falsehood --that women only like jerks.

–

Incidentally, I don’t follow the OP’s testorone --> jerkiness link. Sounds like bad science to me.

4

Well, I don’t think that “emotional, whiny bitch” is what most women mean when they call a guy a “jerk”.

Oh, and for the record… while I’ve never had my testosterone levels checked (is such a thing even possible?), I’m pretty sure it isn’t particularly high…

Barry

5

I’ve thought about this before as well. My wife and I have a friend who always goes for bad guys, guys who treat her like sh*t.
over and over and over again she gets treated like crap.
My wife says she is a glutton for punnishment, I say she really needs some help.
We also have another friend who was like that all throughout college and then when she got out of school she met a guy totally not her style and married him.
Testosterone, hmmmm. I do not see a large correlation in this. I am a pretty masculine guy, 6’1" 220 like ot play with my tools etc…etc… But I am not an asshole. My wife and I compliment each other nicely.
But women who go for complete jerks seem to be missing something fundamental. The drive to find a mate who will further their own growth as a woman, someone who will love what they love, and someone who will be honest and trustworthy in the future.
I have never understood why a women would pick a guy who treated her like a dish rug… And I’m a psychologist.!

Don’t get me wrong, I understand some women like very masculine, over berring men in their lives to tell them what to do etc…etc… but I believe there is a healthy level to this and a not-so-healthy level to it.

6

Narrad: I realize there is another recent thread that discusses why a woman would claim a guy is “too nice,” and I tend to agree with you that in those cases it is most likely simply a woman trying to find a nice way of telling the guy she isn’t attracted to him.

But I’m not talking about that phenomenon.

I’m talking about when women complain to other women (my wife being the recipient of the complaints in this example) that all the men they date are “jerks” and that they wish they could find a “nice guy.” And my theory is that if they wren’t jerks to begine with, the women wouldn’t find them attractive, since it’s the testosterone that simultaneously makes men sexually attractive and jerks.

As for it being bad science, that’s why I said it was just a theory…

Barry

7

Well, look at the personal ads sometime. What are women looking for? Right in there with “tall” and “financially secure” is “confident.” I think this is at (or near) the heart of the matter. Considerate men MAY not appear as confident to some women as men who blow-off other people’s well-being in favor of there own self-interests. Someone dumure may not seem as promising a provider as someone who looks out for number one at all times without regard for others.

8

Well, look at the personal ads sometime. What are women looking for? Right in there with “tall” and “financially secure” is “confident.” I think this is at (or near) the heart of the matter. Considerate men MAY not appear as confident to some women as men who blow-off other people’s well-being in favor of there own self-interests. Someone dumure may not seem as promising a provider as someone who looks out for number one at all times without regard for others.

9

I think rogzilla is much closer to the answer than the OP. There are plenty of apparently high testosterone athletes who are nice guys, just as everyone rememberst the high school football star who was a complete jerk. My personal guess has always been that some women mistake arrogance for confidence, and end up with jerks. Some of those women learn, some do not, and a few are truly pathological.

I have a male friend who seems to be drawn to emotionally abusive women. He doesn’t know why, either, so I might be way of the mark, but it appears to me that he has this subconscious need to prove that he is “man enough” to make them respond in an emotionally healthy way. Perhaps some women have a similar subconscious need to be “woman enough” to make jerks respond in an emotionally healthy way.

10

I think the answer lies in the whole ‘chemistry’ bit women seem so focused on. I think it stems from the childhood fantasy (and reinforced via trashy romance novels) of love at first sight, swooning and just basic animal attraction. This isn’t too far different from the guys chasing bimbos.

Unfortunately what makes one willing to date someone in the first instance often is not what works to keep dating that person in the long run. The guy finds the bimbo is a vapid airhead and the woman finds the guy is a major jerk/ass----.

While testosterone may make a man more aggressive it is just the aggressiveness itself that many women respond to. As stated above aggressiveness/arrogance can be easily mistaken for confidence. Unfortunately the difference only becomes apparent somewhere down the road.

When you are in high school/college the dating of jerks/bimbos is somewhat understandable and not too big a deal. Youth needs to learn from its mistakes to gain wisdom and usually by your mid-20’s you are settling down a bit and realizing how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Not everyone does however…men or women…and seem perpetually doomed to repeat their mistakes. It does seem however that women have a harder time loosening their grip on their childhood notions of romance. I’m not saying love at first sight isn’t possible but I think it is rare. Most adults learn that love is an ongoing process that needs work and maintenance. Love does not have to be a thunderbolt from out of the blue but can grow slowly over time.

Of course if lightning does strike and love finds you falling madly in love (true love) in the course of one minute (and the feeling is returned just as strongly) then more power to you!

11

I don’t believe that anyone’s ever shown a link between high testosterone levels and…well, being a jerk. So that’s a problem for the OP’s theory.

12

It’s conceivable that testosterone levels are measurable, quantifiable. But how do you measure jerkiness? How do you know if your jerk meter is out of calibration? Is there a jerk-by-which-all-other-jerks-are-measured sitting at the Bureau of National Standards? I’d want to stay away from there…or maybe I wouldn’t. Hmmm.

OK, I was joking there. It is an interesting question. What behaviors would you be looking for in a jerk? Agressiveness, arrogance, deception, selfishness. These things all seem highly subjective.

13

pfffffffffffffft! You’re all wrong. :smiley: The reason so many women end up with jerks over and over again is because there aren’t ENOUGH nice guys to go around.

Most truly nice guys get snapped up right away, either fresh out of HS, or during or immediately following college.

Women who have these nice guys are usually (unfortunately) smart enough to know what they’ve got and hang on to them.

See? The nice guys in this thread admittedly have wives. I bet your wives feel pretty darn lucky.

14

Correctimundo.

15

The large majority of total assholes I have known have done very well for themselves romantically, irrespective of other qualities (looks, intelligence, and so on). Personally, I’ve attributed this (in part) to the fact that they are, after, all, two-faced jerks. They lie. Their girlfriends never see what they’re really like, and they tell women what they want to hear. (Really, women, if you only knew about most guys. . .)

And, yes, women do seem to be attracted to confidence, and arrogant jerks are confident. Bertrand Russell said, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” That’s basically what we’re talking about, isn’t it?

16

Well, yeah, but I just got married three weeks ago and I’m almost 37. I wasn’t exactly “snapped up right away” if you know what I mean…

:wink:

Barry

17

If you ask me, it’s because women are fucked up. Not that men aren’t.

As for Narrad’s theory, it doesn’t work for me since the reason I think women go for jerks isn’t that they tell me I’m too nice. The reason is that I see women with complete and total assholes, who beat them, trashtalk them and treat them like garbage. They leave (eventually) and soon hook up with another pathetic Hells Angel wannabe who treats them the same way, and then they come whining about why they never meet nice guys.

Well, here’s a tip: instead of dating drug addicts and criminals, try actually noticing the nice guys who are everywhere around you and would die to make you happy. Let me know how it works out.

18

Well, yeah, except that according to my theory those “nice guys” aren’t perceived as being sexually attractive by the women who keep ending up with jerks. The women who continually date jerks and then complain about wanting a nice guy are REALLY looking for a guy with all the superficial characteristics of the jerks they date (sexiness) but without the bad qualities (aggression, philandering, etc.) Unfortunately, both the attractive and bad qualities have their root in the same source – high testosterone – and these women aren’t going to have much luck finding what they are looking for.

There are women, of course, who do eventually wean themselves of this behavior. They finally realize that macho guys (who they find sexy) can’t help being jerks and decide to settle down with a nice guy who isn’t particularly sexy. This is, in fact, why my wife married me – she got tired of sexy jerks and decided it was more important to find a nice guy. It’s the same way, I’m sure, that many men eventually stop trying to date super models and playboy bunnies and end up marrying a nice woman who doesn’t look like a porn star.

Barry

19

Despite the fact that “go go godzilla” keeps running through my head, I think you are wrong. I agree that in college, pretty much every jerk had no trouble getting women. Of course, you can’t be a jerk to a woman without dating at least one, but I don’t think it was a tautology, since I don’t think I’ve met a hetero male who was a good guy to guys, and a jerk with women.

However, I don’t think testosterone and and being a jerk are that tightly linked. In my case, I am way into sports, work in male dominated fields, got some male pattern baldness going … I exhibit all the patterns usually associated with high testosterone. But for all my faults, I’ve never fooled around or treated my wife like crap. She did, in fact, “snap me up”. We met after she moved out from her first husband, and I was this naive nice college kid, who couldn’t believe such a great woman would date me.

Any jerkiness I exhibited towards girls when I was younger was mostly due to ignorance and immaturity. (I never did figure out a good way to break up.) I am friends with a few world class athletes, and I am friends with guys who participate in high risk activities, like climbing 8000 meter mountains. None of them are jerks. Of course, it might be that a jerk is the last to know …

In short, I see no link between testosterone and being a jerk. I think some jerks are made by their families; mostly by mom, curiosly enough. (In my experience, having a jerk for a dad sometimes creates a great guy; psychopathic moms seem to screw with their boys heads.) Some jerks are made by society. If I was a good looking, young basketball star, with the world handed to me and lots of pretty women throwing themselves at me; I’d probably be a jerk too. I’m sure some jerks are born, but I doubt it is anything as simple as the level of any given hormone. (Are women with higher testosterone levels more likely to be jerks?)

20

I agree that arrogance can looks deceptively like confidence.
A male friend of mine, who isn’t particularly attractive, has absolutely no difficulties meeting women. One of his techniques, he says, is to be arrogant at first. After a little while, the arrogance has to be scaled back to avoid driving her away, but it works at first. This makes sense to me; after all, what is arrogance? Arrogance is the belief that one is superior to others. This is what you’re trying to convince the woman – that you’re at least superior to the other men she has to choose from. If you don’t believe it yourself, why should she? The problem is that most men who are arrogant really do believe that they’re superior to others, so their needs come first. That doesn’t make for a good mate.

Another issue is that a lot of women look for a man who’s “edgy” or “dangerous” or simply “exciting.” Rock stars, bikers, etc. After all, what’s more interesting, a story about sitting home reading the SDMB, or about getting drunk and stealing traffic lights? “Living outside the rules” is, for whatever reason, interesting. Unfortunately, it also means the guy isn’t likely to feel bound by any expectations of his partner, such as fidelity, respect, etc.

Of course, we’re looking at why jerks are attractive. That may be the wrong way of looking at it. Perhaps we should ask "Why are men who attract women so often jerks? This question seems to have an obvious answer: Men who are able to attract women easily have little need to treat those women well. Why bother, when it’s so easy to pick up another one?

Of course, a lot of this doesn’t go on on a conscious level. While I’m no fan of the “subconscious” I do firmly believe that people make decisions and hold attitudes that they don’t often think about.