Why the fuck do people think they can lie and get away with it?

The BBQ Pit
1

So I am in an improv group. This group is run by my sister, whom I am usually pretty close to. She has a crush on one of the actors. I am friends with said actor, and his GIRLFRIEND OF SEVEN YEARS. My sister, in the selfish way that only she has perfected, decides that this actor (we’ll call him “Sam”) is perfect for HER. So she goes about attempting to break up Sam and his girlfriend OF SEVEN YEARS. They are happy. They are in love. They freakin’ live together. My sister knows I disapprove of her actions, so she decides, in her infinate wisdom that I, her fairly insightful sister who has known her for 20 years, won’t notice if she starts lying to me. She starts seeing Sam outside of the improv group. The nature of these meetings is not clear, but I do know that he had a “talk with her” about their “relationship.” There are a number of things wrong with this whole situation. [ul]
[li]You do NOT go about purposefully breaking up couples. If a person is in a relationship, and you think they might be interested in you, you let THEM decide whether to break it off themselves, you do NOT facilitate the destruction of a relationship. Morality 101.[/li][li]It’s freakin’ unprofessional. She’s the director. She’s been putting Sam, who, granted, is an increadibly talented actor, in EVERY SCENE. Moreover, she keeps getting up love scenes for the two of them. It is SO transparent a friend of mine who came to see the show commented on how silly it looked.[/li][li]We know Sam’s girlfriend. We like Sam’s girlfriend. She is not a bitch, she is not a bad person, she deserves Sam way more than my apparently morality-challenged sister does.[/li][li]My sister told me last week that she was going home to pack for a weekend trip to New York. She then drove into Burlington (the opposite direction of where she lives) and proceeded to have dinner with Sam, where the aforementioned “talk about the relationship” occured. I learned this not from my sister, but from my YOUNGER sister, who had to get a ride home, as my older sister ditched her. Younger sister is 15, incidently. Older sister didn’t confess to lying to me until I bitched about the whole thing to my mother, who turned around and told my older sister that I was pissed. Then, and ONLY then, did older sister apologize.[/li][li]Last night during rehersal, she made THREE different statements about how it was OK to attempt to break up relationships to make yourself happy. And I kept my mouth shut. I only wish Sam was at this rehersal to hear the way she was talking.[/li][li]THEN she asks me if we’re going to a concert tonight together. I am pissed at her, speaking to her only when it’s nessisary. No, I am not going to a concert with her tonight, I’m going with my FRIENDS, who don’t LIE TO ME. Instead of saying this, I just bit my tounge and told her I might meet her there.[/li][li]She didn’t give me ONE positive note last night on my performance. She gave everyone else good notes, everyone else gave ME good notes, she only focused on the negative with me. I am SO close to dropping out of the group, I can’t stand her ego anymore.[/li][li]She’s talking about paying the people who are doing extra stuff for the company. I am the webmistress. I registered the domain, found a host for $6 a month, designed and build the website (www.thesoapflakes.com), which as any techie knows, takes a fair amount of time and energy. Sam is the “tech director” which means that he spends 20 minutes straightening the lights DURING pre-show rehersal, and is going to get paid the same amount as I am. ARG! [/ul][/li]
I am being so godammed tactful and mature about this whole situation, I had to vent. How is it that someone raised in the same household as I am can be so selfish to put her own wants and needs above those of two people who are in a happy relationship? I can’t fucking believe her. And to lie to me because she’s too cowardly to admit her lack of ethics? If there is ANYTHING I hate more than a lier, it’s a coward. And because she’s my sister, and my DIRECTOR in this improv group, I have to deal with her.

I fully understand that if Sam decides to cheat on his girlfriend, that is fully his choice. But he won’t. He’s madly in love with her, he has a ton of platonic female friends (myself included). He flirts a lot, but that’s IT. So she’s jeopardizing the future of the company, MY friendships with both Sam AND his girlfriend (hey, I’m her sister, and sister’s always stick together, right?) and is doing all of this out of some misguided feeling that she deserves Sam.

And she’s 8 years older than me. She should know better, dammit.

OK, that’s my rant, tell me what a fucking self-righeous bitch I am. Come on, it’s the Pit, I can take it.

2

You are so right that your sister is acting like a crazy-psycho-slut from hell. Don’t let her chase you out of the troupe, you love it, and it’s yours, too. Other than that, your best course is to stay out of the way. Your sister will fall on her face and wise up sooner or later. If you can’t hold your tongue, maybe say something to Sam? Sounds like he needs to give your sister the “thanks so much for all the flattering attention, but I hope you understand that we’re just friends” speech.

I just realized that you are not asking for advice, as this is the pit. People in the grip of an infatuation will lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want. People suck. You fucking self-righteous bitch!

3

I’m not going to call you a self-righteous bitch; but I am going to call you on not confronting your sister.

Maybe it’s easier for me to feel this way, what with not having strong, close relationships with my family- but you need to lambast the bitch. Let it all out- how it’s not right to break another couple up, how she’s being greedy and self-centered, how much you hate being lied to, and how pathetically obvious her actions are to everyone concerned, and that she’s just making a god-damned fool of herself.

If you just keep it bottled up, it’ll likely explode over some unrelated minor matter, and Sister Riddles will just brush you off as being overly dramatic regarding the minor matter. Or Sister Riddles’ friends confront her over the matter (being as annoyed and embarrassed as you), and then Sister Riddles takes it out on you because you didn’t ‘warn’ her of how foolish she looked.

So vent, thou aristocratic beauty, but ventest thou upon the source of thine grievance.

4

I might be missing something, but have you talked this out with Sam and his girlfriend? I think a good idea would be to tell them exactly what’s up with your older sister. Sure, she might be pissed for a while, but frankly, she’s in the wrong and she knows it. And if she tries to take it out on you in the troupe, you have both Sam and his girlfriend on your side.

5

What they said. I agree completely that you need to tell your sister in no uncertain terms that you disapprove of her actions. 'Fact, I’d also recommend talking to him as well. And then I’d stay out of it.

Any close-knit group of that nature will have its romantic and political entanglements, whether it’s a church, a gaming group, or a performing troupe. It sucks like a lewinsky, and the only way I’ve found to deal with it is to try to defuse things early. Barring that, make your position known, with no chance of confusion, and keep low. And be prepared to pick up the pieces if things go all wonky.

(BTW, Swiddles [and may i call you Swiddles?], where do y’all perform? Are you a Sportzter? I’m an improver myself, and have friends performing in Seattle, Alabama, North Carolina, and in Ca with the Groundlings. I’m always interested in meeting more nutcases. Er, improvisers.)

6

Hey doormat! Come over here - I’ve got something on my shoe.

Just keep it bottled in honey. ignore it and it will go away. At least that was the thinking in the well-adjusted family I grew up in.

BTW - neat site. Thought about posting a message about bitchy directors trying to hose guys who didn’t want/need them, but wasn’t feeling quite evil enough at the moment.

7

Maybe I’m not getting it, but I disagree with what’s been said so far. Your sister is not your business and that includes what she does and who she flirts with. It’s not your place to tell her what she’s doing wrong, or what you dissapprove of, unless either she asks you for your opinion or what she’s doing directly affects your life.
Yes, you are sisters (or you have dissociated identity disorder (formerly known as Multiple personality dissorder), I still haven’t quite figured that out about you yet), and you should always stick together and be there for each other and that means when she’s in trouble and needs your help you’d better help, and if she ever needs a hug or a shoulder you offer it, and if she ever asks for advice you come up with the best damn advice there is to give, BUT that doesn’t mean you have the right to meddle into her relationships with other people, or criticize (sp?) her behavior. Be her friend, not her guardian.

Talk to her about how its affecting the group, and their’s and your abilities to perform. That’s well within your jurisdiction. But it’s not your job to teach Morality 101. And she shouldn’t be forced to take a class she didn’t sign up for. If she hires you as her private tutor, that’s another story.

8

Drain, I think you are, as usual, correct. I’ll talk to Sam as soon as he gets back from his wedding.

andros, we’re in Burlington, Vt. It’s actually an improv-comedy soap opera parody thing. I love doing it, the rest of the cast is amazingly talented, and we have a ball together. Except lately.

The benefit of doing theater in small towns is you get paid for it, as opposed to LA, where I’m sure you’re aware, you pay dues. HAH! Sister Riddles hails from Acme Improv in LA, where she toiled for 4 years.

Keep the advice coming, I hate being this angry.

9

Ah, one of my pet peeves ! I hate being lied to about anything. It is insulting. IMHO they may as well walk up, sit in my face and say ,* You dumb bitch, I can tell you anything bullshit I want to , because you are so stupid you will never know the difference *. Er, sorry Swiddles.

You do need to let sis know what you think of her actions, it will let her know that you are not falling for her crap.

And I agree with you about not trying to break apaert an ongoing relationship. It’s just wrong to do that. Sis better watch her butt, Karma bites hard when it comes to thing like that. I know a woman who thought it would be cool to get involved with a married man . The married man fell for it, he left his wife and child. After a couple of years he and his wife got back together. When she herself got married, her husband left her for another woman.

10

No offense, Moe, but bullshit.

Swiddles’ sister’s actions ARE her business when they interfere with her working and performing environment. Sister’s actions are affecting performances and, obviously, relationships. It is entirely appropriate to tell her that what she’s doing, in Swiddles’ opinion, is fucked up. It is entirely appropriate to criticise.

When your actions negatively affect my life, I have every right to attempt to counter those actions, no?

11

I’m with Moe on this one. “Sam” is a big boy. He goes out with whom he pleases, and it’s his business. He isn’t a married man. He has no real commitment to his longtime girlfriend, no matter how nice she is. No one forced him to start seeing your sister.

I do think, however, you can express your displeasure to her. But if she brushes you off, let it go. You can’t make her do anything she doesn’t want to do.

What’s up with these couples who date for years? I figure after about a year, a couple should know whether they want to get engaged or want to break up. Just MHO.

12

When I saw this title my first thought was “because so few people call them on their lies and bullshit that they think it is ok to continue doing it.”

After reading your OP, I have the same opinion. I have lots of sisters, and one of them lying to me is not something that I tolerate well. It’s bad enough that the strangers out in the world will lie to ya, but your own sister? Especially a younger one? Ha! It has happened to me too, unfortunalely, but it damned sure does not happen twice from that sister. To those that think this is too harsh, tough. Sisters are not supposed to lie to each other, period.

Swiddles, you call her on her shit as you see fit. Don’t for one minute feel bad about doing so though. If you don’t call her on her lies, then you basically send the message that you don’t care or mind that she lied to you, when obviously you do.

13

Hmmm…the Moe post is why I put this in the pit. I think he’s right, I do tend to be overly moralistic. And if I didn’t know Sam’s girlfriend, I’d probably have a different point of view. But BECAUSE I know her, and like her, it’s somehow more dirty.

However, her actions are effecting our relationship OUTSIDE of the context of either my relationship with Sam and his GF or the acting troupe. She lied to me when I asked her to have dinner with me, not about the nature of their relationship. This whole bloody mess is seeping into MY world. I take that VERY seriously. She’s allowed to fuck up her improv group, she IS the director and it IS her brainchild. I could leave and it probably wouldn’t suffer much (and I am seriously considering it, as much as I love it.) But her guilt over this whole thing lead her to lie to me, that’s what I am really pissed off about. If she’s feeling guilty, then why the hell isn’t she listening to that guilt? Why is SHE being so self-righteous about how acceptable it is to break people up if she feels the need to lie about it?

I changed my mind. The only thing I hate worse than liers and cowards are HYPOCRITES. If you’re gonna be a skank, at least be a skank. Don’t deny or try to hide your skankiness.

I’m feeling better already. God DAMN this board is cheaper then therepy.

14

Well, I would draw a distinction between the moral side of it and the quasi-professional side of it. I don’t think we have the right to dictate the morals of other adults, disapprove of them as we may, and that includes sisters. If she’s panting after some married or near-married guy, that’s her business, and I would keep my opinion to myself unless or until she asked for it. She probably knows what your opinion is of her behavior anyway, right?

Professionally, however, I think you as a member of the troupe have the right to raise with her, as the director, any issues you think are detrimentally affecting the group – including her making you and others uncomfortable by so blatantly chasing after him. (And, BTW, I think you also have the right to discuss with her being paid a reasonable amount for the work you do, and that means more than the guy she just happens to have the hots for.)

Oh, and you might mention to her that by obviously focusing unwelcome romantic attention on a person in her employ, she’s setting herself up for a nice, fat sexual harassment claim. Maybe that will cool her off a bit.

15

Andros, no offence taken, but did you happen to read my entire post? Because I said exactly what you have said.

Let me tell you something. If my little sister ever tried to tell me I was behaving in an immoral way, or if she ever tried to preach to me about the right thing to do when I didn’t ask her opinion, I would be angry at her and tell her to mind her own damn business. Actually, I can tell that from experience. Well, actually I don’t get angry at her. I laugh in a patronizing way as what she said quitely leaves my head through the opposite ear from whence it came. For those of you with younger siblings, take a moment to imagine how you would react to their preachings.
I think it would be wrong if Swiddles got involved in the same way with her younger sister’s life, but at least then, being older, she would probably be seen as an authority figure; younger siblings tend to listen to older siblings with a certain respect that doesn’t exist much the other way around.

16

Well, in MOST situations it’s wrong to lie. And even in this one it’s certainly less than right. But have a little understanding. Your sister is probably ashamed of her dinner/meeting with Sam (after all, I think we can all agree that deep down in her heart she knows it is wrong to do what she’s doing, though she’ll probably keep denying it to herself because no one wants to accept that their would-be soulmate is taken), and furthermore, you don’t exactly seem supportive of what she’s doing (for good reason) so she would naturally want to hide it from you. She has a right to a private life too. I’ve certainly lied to my sister, and parents about my whereabouts on particular evenings when I didn’t feel it was appropriate to disclose to them what I was up to, or felt that they wouldn’t understand.

Try to see it from her point of view. She has found someone she thinks is perfect for her, but he’s taken. Do you have any idea how painful that realization can be for someone? At 20 years old finding that special someone doesn’t seem that crucial, after all you have plenty of time. But at 28 you may find, if you haven’t found your Mr Right yet, it becomes a lot more frustrating, and the feelings generated can be very intense, even bringing you to the point of doing things that are inherently wrong. Where do you think stalkers come from? Most were probably normal once.

Trust Sam to handle the situation. If he’s a good guy he’ll let her down gently, or if they are meant to be together, so be it. As far as you go, tell her you deserve more money and recognition, because you work hard for the group. Tell her that her behavior is affecting the quality of the group, and to please keep her personal issues separate. And be there for her when Sam lets her down, because she’s really going to need your love and support and understanding. :wink:

17

Color me a little confused, then (and was by your first post, though I went with the first portion of it instead of asking you to clarify).

It’s ok but it isn’t? I realize that unsolicited moralizing is inappropriate, and so does Swiddles, it seems. If that’s your point, I’m with you.

But the fact remains that Sister’s actions and behavior are affecting the troupe and Swiddles. And that is basis for getting involved, not the moral aspects.

You’re right that Sister has a right to a private life. But as you note, this isn’t a private matter–it’s become public (unprofessional behavior, etc).

I don’t think what you’re saying is far from my view at all. The only difference is that I think what John, Drain, and I were saying was not only, as you put it, “Tell her that her behavior is affecting the quality of the group, and to please keep her personal issues separate,” but also, “Tell her she’s hurting you with her bahavior.”

-andros-

18

Fine, tell her “she’s hurting you with her behavior”. But don’t tell her what she’s doing with Sam is wrong.
If a co-worker is hitting on another co-worker, and let’s even go so far as to say one co-worker is my brother, and it’s affecting overall productivity, and causing me to pick up slack that I shouldn’t be responsible for, you bet your ass it’s my place to tell my brother/co-worker that what he’s doing is affecting me, and that I don’t want to be doin his work for him. But it aint my place to tell him to stop hittin on our other co-worker. That’s personal and not my place.

19

…but what would Dr. Laura say? he he, just kidding. She’d probabaly call everyone a slut…

Actaully, this is not so un-common. I have seen quite a few people go after someone who was taken, aggressively, and without concern for any third parties.

SwimmingRiddles, There are several posts suggesting you talk to Sam and GF - wrong! Your sister said this to you in confidence, and even though you believe she is acting badly, do not betray her confidence. You can tell her anything about your feelings, disagree on the topic of her behavious (don’t preach), but don’t go to the other people involved. You will always want to be close to your sister, so don’t throw the relationship away forever.

Oh, and one other thing. If you press the issue, and, for some strange reason, she ends up with this man, you will have alienated both of them.

Good luck

20

They think they can get away with it cause they have and cause you let em get away with it.

Confront her … seriously in her face confronting. You need to do that for yourself so she won’t continue to abuse you in that way.