I think we have a winner here. Tactful, respectful, loving, understanding and reasonable.
I think that’s what I haven’t explained well here. There is NOTHING to see through. The original question of whether she sees us still together is 20 years or so is exactly the question that I want to know. Nothing more, nothing less. There’s nothing to read into it. It doesn’t tip my hand toward my thoughts. There is no subtext, no subterfuge and no subconscious thought. I have thought about it, and I DO think we have a good shot. I really, really, truly just want to know if she’s thought about it.
Shouldn’t it be required that prior to procreation a couple has to say, “Hey, I think we got a good shot at stickin’ this out for awhile.” I mean, they wouldn’t be held to it in case of trouble, but at least to make sure everyone has thought everything through.
(By the way, I don’t mean that last part seriously, unless you all agree with me, in which case I did.)
Jeez, that conversation seems more difficult than my original plan. I mean, my way it was gonna be a quick yes or no question, and then the conversation could end :). Right?
Seriously, I appreciate the advice. I’m almost thirty now, shouldn’t women make more sense to me? If I put half this much thought into anything else I’d have cured cancer and written that novel by now. How can half the population of the earth make so little sense to me?
Hey, as long as you’re trying to plan for every contingency, why not consider that your child might get run over by a truck at age five?
Sorry to sound harsh, but micromanaging such intangibles is a worthless pursuit, IMO. You can’t tell what’s going to happen. Yes, you may get divorced, one or both of you may die, the world may end by then, who knows?
You have no control over some things, and other things shouldn’t be added to the equation. The fact that you’re letting such thoughts intrude in your decision-making seems to be an indicator that you yourself aren’t totally ready to commit to the idea of a family.
This thread is reminding me of that chorus that goes:
Will you still need me
Will you still feed me
When I’m 64?
You say in your original post that you and your wife (after seven years of marriage) have started to talk about having kids in a "soon, not just someday"sort of way. While some women have been known to be willing to get pregnant for stupid reaons (e.g. “this marriage is falling apart, a baby would hold it together and/or a baby’s love would replace the love that my husband has stopped giving me”, most sane women are not willing to consider bringing a new life into the world if they think the marriage is not going to last though to the child’s reaching age 18. So I suspect that at least subconsciously your wife has considered it.
If you want to make sure she has considered it, then IMHO you have no choice but to
bring up the issue. Please only bring up the topic when you both have a good amount of free time to talk it out. I suggest you bring it up as your issue - i.e. " We’ve been talking about having kids and that’s made me think about the strength of our relationship." Please immediately make clear that you are committed for the long haul (as you say you are in previous posts) and that you are happy with your relationship with her. Then and only then proceed to tell her that you need to hear from her how she feels about the shape of your relationship and its longterm stability, as this is important in making decisions about having children together (you’re trying to plan responsibly to maximize your potential child’s wellbeing).
If you do it this way, I think you minimize the risk of emotional explosions from your wife. My husband and I agreed prior to marriage that our feelings and issues, even if on the surface irrational, were important and were to be discussed with love and respect; this has helped us handle the "deep discussions"well and we usually find that our relationship is better for having these discussions, even if we were afraid to broach a sensitive topic with the other.
Just one consideration for you: if someone could tell you ahead of time with 100% accuracy guaranteed that your wife would die , become unable to help you take care of your kid (physical or mental illness), or divorce you prior to your child reaching 18, would that change your decision re: having kids?
I was married for 18 years and we have three kids and if my Ex had said to me “Where do you see our life in 20 years?” it wouldn’t have bothered me in the least. If he had said, “Do ya think we can make it for the next 20 years?” it probably wouldn’t have bothered me that much, either, but I would have felt like he was frightened about the prospect of breaking up, etc. and that he needed some reassurance.
I think couching it as a “we” question, “Where do you see us in 20 years?” type thing, shows that you’re assuming you will be together and want to know her thoughts. It’s a good question. A better question, though, would be relative to raising your future kids. And not just one question, lots of them. The subject of disciplining your child, religious upbringing, political upbringing, educational needs/priorities…these are the things that can really break a marriage. And it’s often not seen when the baby is a cute, cuddly little bundle of joy. It’s when the child becomes mobile and willful and needs structure and consistent discipline and you, as parents, really have to act as a team. And do so under the duress of work and home upkeep and schedules and lack of sleep and still somehow maintain your identity as an adult couple and as individuals… That’s where I think a lot of marriages fall apart. Maintaining a balance of responsibility between you, having complementary parenting styles and allowing yourselves to continue to grow as individuals and a couple, are all important areas to discuss and plan before the kids are born, when you still have time and a modicum of sanity.
The Ujest Marriage Survival Plan
Whomever asks for divorce, gets the kids.
I’m with John Carter on this one. The question would be meaningless as far as an honest discussion is concerned. Life changes as you go through it. You can’t foresee the future. No one (well, no reasonable person) goes into a marriage figuring it won’t last long. You just have to keep working at doing the good things that make it last. In some marriages, that is more difficult that in others.
Consider the outcomes of such a discussion.
[ul]You agree that it may not last and decide not to have kids.
o You stay married and are OK with not having had children.
o You stay married and in later years feel bad about not having had kids.
o One or the other resents not having had children and you wind up divorcing. The decision not to have kids may be the seed of the reason. (Self fulfilling prophecy).[/ul]
[ul]You agree that it will last and are able to have kids.
o You stay married and all is as you had hoped. Wonderful life.
o You get a divorce and the children are impacted as you had hoped they would not be.
o As part of your discussion this year, you agree to stay together “for the children” no matter what. Feelings change towards each other but you both hold to the agreement. Not being able to separate you get very bitter towards each other. Life is hell for both of you and the kids. (I’ve seen this happen. It can’t be worse than a divorce before the relationship has turned to hate. The kids can really turn out screwed up.)[/ul]
All of the outcomes could have happened without the discussion. Well, except for the one where the discussion winds up scuttling the relationship. If you really want to talk about the future, there are less threatening ways to go about it as serious lark and Salem (among others) have mentioned.
An agreement today does not guarantee behavior or results in the future. If you make the agreement absolutely binding, it can still backfire.[ul]
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