of coursenot, A- gene 'cause if they’d used an axe, they’d have been shunned!
Excellent idea, Jones.
Give it a try, wolfman.
Well, the people in this thread by and large understood your frustration, empathized, made helpful suggestions and cut you some slack for the thread title.
I will be blunt: get a reality check from one of your close women friends (I’m sure you have a few since you’ve met half of the women in Denver and you’re a great guy)–do you come off to them as smart and funny? IMHO, your later posts in this thread are neither smart nor funny.
of coursenot, A- gene 'cause if they’d used an axe, they’d have been shunned! **
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Yeah, just look at Lizzie Borden!
of coursenot, A- gene 'cause if they’d used an axe, they’d have been shunned! **
[/QUOTE]
You know what I think of when I think of an axe? Why, I think of George Washington, that’s what I think of. ‘Course now, he didn’t use an axe, properly speakin’, he used a hatchet, but if he’d’ve been a MAN, he’d’ve used an axe!
my apologies if no one gets this
You know, something I’ve learned in my rather limited experience is that you can’t really force a relationship. For me, anyway, that’s the case. If I meet a girl who I am really attracted to and immediately think how much I’d like to date her, stare at her legs, touch her boobies, etc I’m either too shy to approach her or the relationship gets mired in a very loose friendship. However there have been girls I met where I didn’t even think about dating at all, and I hit it off with them.
I’m through with conciously trying to impress the opposite sex. I’ve accepted the possibility that I may spend the rest of my life a bachelor, and I’m fine with things working out either way. I’m in no way desperate, but neither am I shallow. I want somebody who loves me for who I am, and not some superficial/selfish reason. Yeah, I have somewhat high standards, but I’m not complaining that I’m single right now either.
Oh, yeah! I had forgotten all about her. One of my favorite Bad Girls of History.
Now, for what it’s worth, I met my current boyfriend in the hospital, but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that method unless you’re really sick… 
Agreed! There are plenty of geeky females out there (self included). This is not to say we’re not outnumbered, of course, but the ratio is decreasing. In some areas, in my experience, the ratio is nearly 50/50. (In fact, the only true LARP I played in had a female majority! Also, while my current table-top roleplaying group is all male except for myself, my last also had more females than males.)
[quote]
I will be blunt: get a reality check from one of your close women friends (I’m sure you have a few since you’ve met half of the women in Denver and you’re a great guy)–do you come off to them as smart and funny? IMHO, your later posts in this thread are neither smart nor funny.
[quote]
Once again I’m not entirerly sure I need to post again,(as I said I don’t want to turn this into a long term pity party), but I feel like defending myself so what the hell. This is a rant, a bitch session, a whine. I’m currently feeling sorry for myself, and really want to vent. I have no intention of being smart or funny with the posts in this thread. I have no need for anybody to defend me(which will not happen because nobody around here knows me personally), but for people to take little digs and suggest I’m deluding myself about having female friends is offensive to me. Not that there is really a possibility for corroboration, but I do have many, as in over 30 of hand,female friends who will always say that I am funny and smart.
The weight watchers suggestion is not a bad one, unfortunately is is not applicable to me. Along with alchohol, good food is one of my vices. It would be extremely dishonest for me to attend a meeting in which I have no inclination to follow the guidelines. Again I never claimed it was a defendable point, but I will be fat until I die because I like to eat foods that no amount of exercise, when indexed aginst my metabolism, will allow my to be thin. I will always be ugly, and I will always be fat, those are facts(unless someone creates a pill that will override natural metabolism and force someone to be in shape). I just occasionally feeling like bitching about the fact that phyiscal condition and shape is that important in the world. I have a good mental and humorous conditioning, you can disbelive that all you want, because I have no desire to go through the effort of truly proving you wrong. But humanity sucks(perhaps that should have been the title of the thread also), and I will bitch about the parts of humanity sucking that happen to affect me.
women Suck
…
But the nasty ones swallow, too! <rimshot>
Oy!
wolfman, you had me on your side, even with the Ivory Tower post. There are many people around here who would get all vaporish and claim to find the Playboy Centerfold type of woman repulsive. Not that I’ve made a comprehensive statistical study of Dopers and their sexual interests, but I;m going on personal observation.
But, son, you lost me with the last one. You bitch and moan about being fat and ugly, and how women don’t like you, and how you’re feeling sorry for yourself.
I hate to tell you this, but you’ve just slipped down a notch or two to Whiny Fool. You acknowledge that there are rules (or statistical trends) in the dating world, acknowledge yourself as an outlier, then absolutely refuse to do anything to bring you closer to the median (i.e. climb out of the bottle and lose some weight.) You have no right to feel sorry for yourself any more. You refuse to help yourself, to improve your chances of getting a mate.
The problem, I’m afraid, is one of your own construction, and there is a way out of it, but you foolishly refuse to do it.
I’m supposed to sympathize? Get real.
If you met a fat, ugly woman in one of those dive bars, who was funny and smart and shared your interests, would you want to date her?
I’m sincerely curious. You accuse practically everyone of being primarily concerned with shallow concerns such as beauty, but I wonder if you think of yourself as different than the rest of us.
Would I fuck her? Yes. I have hit on the ugliest women I could possibly find, just hoping they might me desperate enough to fuck me, but no dice. Would I date her? Yeah I would, any girl who is fun to hang out with and willing to be seen as my date is pretty cool in my book. Would I marry her, No. Because I don’t believe in marriage, but I suppose there are no certainties in the world, so it’s concieveable that I would possibly marry such a woman.
Ah, but the problem is I’m not outside the median. Because looks don’t matter, right? Being fat is something only a strange freak would consider unattractive, right? I’m not bitching about the state of the world, although I resent it, that’s my own personal problem. I’m bitching about the bullshit that pervades these boards about how physical looks don’t matter. They do, and everybody knows they do. For a board that pretends to idolize “the straight dope” there is a load of ivory tower pretensiousness around here, and that is the battle I’m choosing to fight.
One additional point. How exactly is it of my constuction. I’m a naturally fat guy. Losing weight would involve a great deal of life style changes and giving up one of the true things tha makes me happy(good food). Would you advise a girl who complained that she was unhappy to get a breast enlargement? The ideal of female beauty in this world has a component of large tits being favorable. A tit job involves about $5,000 dollars, an couple hours of surgery, and a couple weeks of pain and bruising. That is much less of a sacrifice than giving up a love of food for a lifetime. And yet it so easily comes down to me constructing my own unhappiness by not taking the so easy step of losing weight. I guess the ‘just be yourself’ ideal is irrelevant when you are ugly and choose to bitch about it.
Um, no. Don’t think for an instant that I believe looks don’t matter. That’s the part I agreed with you about. Statistically speaking, looks certainly do matter, and I believe they matter on this board. Consider for a second that you may be falling victim to a logical fallacy. To wit:
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You read an MPSIMS thread in which someone complains about their perceived unattractiveness to the opposite sex.
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Responses to that thread generally run toward the encouraging (“You’re just my type!” “I think you’re hot!” “I love extra pounds!” “I don’t like skinny/made-up/alabaster-skinned supermodels. I like my women/men/love-slaves real.”) There may be a ton of these responses.
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You read a thread in the Pit justifying, oh, say, making fun of fat people.
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Responses to that thread include a thorough flaming, with various and sundry references to the OP’s sexuality, parentage, and personal habits.
It all seems to add up to an “Ivory-Tower”-ish disconnection from reality, doesn’t it? What you’re forgetting is that,
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In the first case, it’s MPSIMS. People try not to be too assholish there.
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In the second case, it’s the Pit. People feel free to vent their spleen.
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Most importantly, in neither case are the responses representative of the users of this board at large. It is not a random sample. People naturally disposed to be resentful of fat/acne/whatever-haters respond with heat. People who are not resentful or who are neutral don’t respond. Therefore, you get a biased representation.
**
You realize that certain of your characteristics make you generally unattractive to a large segment of women. But you refuse to take the steps necessary to make yourself more attractive to them (with the assumption that you don’t have a medical condition which prevents this.) The choice you made is based on your order of priorities.
By making this choice, when other choices are available, you have become the hiker who walks into a dead-end box canyon and refuses to simply turn around and walk out.
Granted, repetition also provides a measure of statistical improvement, but it doesn’t seem to be working for you. I’d try something else, bud.
Good post, your analysis is very good. I’m pretty much beyond my need to vent and whine at this point, but that line I quoted is a bad analogy. If it was as simple as turning around me and every other fat person would have done it(although that doesn’t apply to the ugly part, but that isn’t point of your post) A better analogy is falling into a deep pit and realizing that in order to climb out you will have to give up pretty much everything else for years, and knowing that if you do climb out you will still be on the edge of the pit, and any misstep will knock you back down in it.
Wolfman, I’m basically a woman of average weight and reasonably attractive. For 4+ years, I was dating a guy who, according to basically everyone who knew both of us, was proportionally fatter than me and actually kind of funny-looking.
At first, I really didn’t care that he was kind of funny-looking, nor could I have cared less about his extra pounds, even when there started to be more and more extra pounds. Why not? I probbaly could have found someone cuter and in better shape, but he was smart, funny, and super-sweet to me. However, when he started to ignore me, find all kinds of stupid things to criticize me about, refuse to compromise at all on the things we did together, withhold any scrap of physical or emotional affection, and constantly comment on how fat I was (I’d had a severe injury followed by several rounds of leg surgery and a year on crutches; I gained maybe 10 lbs., and he gained proobably triple that during the same time), I started to change my mind. He would even blame me for his own weight gain, saying that I was forcing him to overeat and not exercise, although by then he’d cut off enough contact that I was basically seeing him one day a week.
The last straw was when I got on the train to work one morning on crutches after having a leg relapse; nobody gave up a seat for me, so by the time I got to work I was in a lot of pain and rather grumpy. As I recounted the story he said “I can’t believe nobody gave you a seat! And you look so obviously pregnant!” I told him to fuck off until he could treat me with respect on a consistent basis, which never happened. (I ran into him a few weeks ago, now that I’m myself again and in better shape; he’d gained another 30 lbs., all in the gut, and is still single. Why? He refuses to accept responsibility for the results of his own actions, namely overeating and treating women like a schmuck.)
What’s my point? Well, I suspect your attitude toward the women you approach is transparent. When you write things like
“Yes. I have hit on the ugliest women I could possibly find, just hoping they might me desperate enough to fuck me, but no dice,”
it leads me to suspect that your opinion of these women peeks through while you’re talking to them. No woman, especially one who may already have issues with her own appearance, wants to feel like a charity fuck. No matter how horny or desperate I am, I’d rather stay home with a small, battery-operated appliance than screw some random or semi-random guy who’s doing it because he thinks I think he’s the best I can do. Not to mention that self-pity is also pretty transparent, and is also not a big turnon to most women. I bet if you do something, anything, that makes you feel better about yourself, your romantic fortunes will change drastically.
As for loving food: so do many thin people. It’s a matter of moderation (and I could do better myself in that department). You don’t have to give up food, or even the occasional indulgence. But would you trade half of the excess food for a love life? What are you willing to sacrifice? Nothing? Well, then please stop kvetching.
Brava, Eva Luna. I’ve been wanting to post the same thing all week long, but I’ve been too busy with work to spend the time on it.
I have no doubt that your intentions are transparent to these women. Most of the women I know aren’t particularly interested in sex with a guy unless they think there’s a possibility of some kind of emotional connection or relationship. (Yes, even if he’s hot.) Furthermore, most of the women I know don’t want to spend every night drinking in dive bars.
So I think you need to consider the possibility that your looks are not the whole problem. It’s probably largely your attitude.
And by the way, I joined Weight Watchers and lost 50 pounds without ever having to entirely give up good food. What I learned to do was to moderate what I eat and to stop eating things I didn’t really want.
Of course, I don’t know what your definition of “good food” is. If it’s fried cheese and Ring-Dings, you may have a problem. 
Well I only have a few minutes but thought I’d toss in a few hopefully helpful tips:
Try some places other than bars and clubs (where natural defenses are high), like coffee shops 7-10 in the morning, supermarkets during lunch, after work, sports clubs, yoga classes etc… These settings are more condusive to meeting people, and in activity clubs, classes or groups you don’t have a time restraint so there’s a good possibility of someone devoloping an attraction for you over time.
Try to capture a woman’s emotions, people exchange facts all too often, a man that can touch her feelings is hard to come by. Ask her how she feels about things…keep the conversation positive, ALWAYS. Listen to what she says.
Don’t wait to approach, just walk up and talk to them within 3 seconds of noticing them.
Have a drink or two but don’t get drunk, it shows and it’s going to turn her off, unless she’s an alcoholic or something…but who wants that!
MAking friends with the ladies is fine, it does two things for you in respect to meeting other girls. 1) Seeing you talk to them at a distance makes you a lot more interesting than you just sitting there in the breeze. 2) Meet their female friends, they will be more comfortable with you than you’ll think.
Show lots of personality, amplify this if you have a good amount already - entertain! Humor is wonderful and it’s awesome you have it, but show a deep serious side of yourself too.
Remember, you don’t get rejected, you just find out who has good taste.
Now go out and practice meeting new people, LEARN from your experiences!
How many girls are telling you here that your looks don’t make as much of a big deal as you think? Do the best with what you have, make your best qualities shine like diamonds.