Women: your top DOs and DON'Ts for men in social situations

In My Humble Opinion
61

I’d like to address something that I think may be somewhat of a contradiction. I’m not sure how best to phrase it, so bear with me.
A pattern that’s emerging here is that women want a man who is considerate; a man who isn’t rude or crude; a man who is polite and attentive and complimentary, above all, a man who does all this in general and it isn’t an act. You want to know the “real” guy.
Now, certainly, a guy on a first date should be all those things. I’d like to think I am as well and that it’s not an act…per se. I add that caveat because, you know what? Sometimes I’m crude. Sometimes I’m very crude. Sometimes I’ll talk about uninteresting topics (i.e. sports). Sometimes I’ll compliment someone because it seems polite to do so, not because deep in my heart I know it to be the God’s honest truth.

Where am I going with this? I have, or consider myself to have, a great deal of qualities on the “do” list. But there are a few “don’t” qualities that I have as well. Now, we’re talking about first dates and those “don’t” qualities won’t appear on the first date. Or, rather, I’ll try not to let them. But what does that mean? That means you’re not seeing the full me. You want a man who isn’t acting, but I’m telling you that I AM acting when I’m all nice all the time.
How do I say this succintly rather than ramble on and on for paragraphs? Too late. OK, the “don’t” qualities I have aren’t bad qualities. They’re just ones that are inappropriate for a first date. But you can’t ask me to be the real me while simultaneously expecting me to repress many of the things that makes me me! And the real me uses “me” 5 times in every sentence!

Gah. Does any of this make sense?
I’m not really upset by this contradiction, but I wanted to point out there is one.

62

Well, sure, Ender, it’s reasonable to expect that everyone has flaws, everyone does things that are rude, etc. Fart, scratch your balls, pick your teeth, get drunk, whatever-- those are all things that, eventually, all my boyfriends have done in front of me at one time or another. But the reason they got the chance (ha ha, don’t I sound full of myself?) to become my boyfriend is that they were smart enough to know NOT to do those things on a first date.

So, yes, if we’re meeting romantically for the first time, I want to know the real you, but the real you on your best behavior. If you’re not on your best behavior around me, it’s a sign that you don’t particularly care what I think of you. And if you don’t care, why should I bother to think of you at all, you know?

Saying or doing boorish things, or boring things, around someone is a sign that you’ve let your social guard down. It’s a sign of intimacy. And that’s all cool, when we’re know each other intimately. But, a first date is the time to impress me with how cool you can be, not assume that I’ll overlook what ain’t so great about you.

To sum up LindyHopper-style, you want to be yourself, but yourself is flawed. I say, be yourself, just save the flaws for when I’m already dazzled with your strengths.

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DON’T

  1. If your answers to everything I say are “yes,” “no” or plain old-fashioned grunting, there’ll BE no second date.
  2. Try to “measure dicks” with me. (I.e. tell me how successful you are AND imply you are more successful than me.)
  3. Compliment me. I don’t buy that flattery shit, and can’t handle having to flatter in return. It’ll gain you nothing. But maybe it’s just me.
  4. Give me too much material shit (i.e. flowers, jewelry, restaurant AND broadway tickets on the first date, and yes, that’s happened), or I will have a nagging suspition that you’re trying to “buy me over,” so, just like in case (1) there’ll BE no second date.
    DO
  5. I will be pleasantly surprised if you open the doors for me. And you want me pleased.
  6. Make me laugh! Otherwise I’ll think you’re boring.
  7. Pay for the first date. I will definitely offer to pay myself, but you are supposed to be courting me, remember? Besides, otherwise I’ll probably think you are cheap. Especially if you offer to split. No matter how broke you are (if you’re so broke, take me out to where you can afford going).
64

If I might offer a few pieces of advice, be like a boy scout and be prepared as much as possible. That is, if you’re using a credit card, make sure there’s enough leeway so that the charge isn’t refused, thereby embarrassing your date. If you pay with cash, go to the ATM before your date and take out a reasonably large amount to take care of unexpected expenses. Make sure your car is gassed up, clean, and in good repair so the chance of a breakdown is low. Think about what you’re going to wear so that you’re not late and stressed out. That feeling will convey. Don’t run any little errands thinking you can get everything done. Make sure you allow plenty of time to pick up your date, drive at the speed limit, and get to the activity (restaurant, movie, etc.) on time. In short, treat your date like the you’re on the most important job interview of your life. No one wants to feel like just one more overscheduled errand that has to be squeezed in.

65

The OP said

There is no flat-out statement here that the liking or interest must be romantic. Was it your intention to have answers apply only to that situation? I’m thoroughly married myself, but if I meet a guy socially I’d still like him better and be more interested in him as a friend (should that matter to him) if he acted on the better side of worse. Some of the stuff below applies more to the situation of a date (with implied “host” and “possiblity of romance”) and some is generic (including the flirting recommendation. We all like to be found attractive and intelligent).

DO:
• Clean yourself up. Look and smell nice. Casual is okay, as long as it’s neat.
• Flirt intelligently - word play, double entendre (but not crass), literary or scientifically-related wit, anything that will show me that you find me attractive and intelligent, just as you are showing yourself to be.
• Know how to have a balanced conversation (a little bit you, a little bit me, no TMI from anybody).
• Be there. That is, your attention should be directed toward me and/or what we’re doing, not your cell phone, pager, the TV over the bar, the fight you had with your boss or how much your mechanic overcharged you.
• Talk to my face, not my breasts.

DON’T:
• Make assumptions about me based on how I look or what I do for a living.
• Stop to put gas in the car or get money from the ATM. Do that before you arrive, please.
• Air your existential angst.
• Be a jerk.

66

Hi SparrowHawk. In my OP I was trying to cover both non-romantic and romantic contexts. The basic idea is that you are either meeting the man for the first time, or at least you are in the very early stages of getting to know him. I was looking for preferred DOs and DON’Ts from the female point of view.

A fair point, but it must have its limits. If you tell me you’re a professional publicist for the KKK, I will be making a few assumptions!

67

notcynical wrote:

I volunteer to put my arm around your shoulder, to hold your hand, and especially to put my hand on your leg. Oh, I’m 39, and the difference in our ages turns me on. I hope it turns you on, too.

… in response to a post by a fifteen year old girl.

I would just like to point out that in Australia at least this would be VERY unacceptable - talk of physically touching and being turned on by a 15 year old - and I seriously imagine it would be the same in your country too. Need I remind you that she’s underage and you seem to be implying you’d like to have sex with her - AS IN PEDOPHILIA!

This post will end up on cyberangels unless it is withdrawn promptly…

68

do

be yourself
open doors
ask questions, let convo flow
look/smell nice
keep eye contact
humorous

dont

be rude
overly nervous
act fake
talk about your past

69

Ah, good. I gave you a few for each category, then, even though the dating thing doesn’t apply to me anymore.

Fair enough back atcha, ianzin! :slight_smile: I can see how some things might be logical deductions. But I am an artist and I have met guys who assume that means I’m going to hop right into bed with them because artists are all so, like, you know, bohemian and stuff. Or who have assumed I paint because I’m too stupid or too lazy to get a real job. I even had a guy who hired me to paint a mural in his store express amazement that the sketch I made was proportionally to scale, since he didn’t think “an artist” could do such “left brain” thinking. Duh. It’s part of my job, moron. Nothing logical about those deductions, IMO, and I prefer to be spared such idiocy, thanks.

70

ok, I’m not a woman but i know what they want. Its not very hard at all you just have to discipline yourself. this list will work like a charm for 95% of the women out there.

Do:

  1. make eye contact, it may not feel natural with guys but women love it. It actually gives them the feeling of being in love.
  2. kinosthetics, that means non-sexual “touching” in any way. if you don’t it will be like a barrier between the two of you and it will hard to get over.
  3. Be a mystery. Women love to talk,ESPECIALLY about themselves. It’s so easy to have a convo with them just ask open-ended questions. also if she gives one word answers thats a bad sign
  4. Be a challenge. if you let her know that you like her, her attraction level will drop dramatically.
  5. TEASE. This could be the most bestest things you could do when on a date. Women LOVE this. Rag on her about anything. But remember always smile and keep it playfull. Dont be a jerk for real.
  6. Smile.
  7. Confidence. It’s a must.

Don’ts
1.Talk about yourself all night. this works against you in SOOO many ways. first off you lose mystery because she begins to learn about you. you’ll probably reveal that you like her -challenge. You prove how much of a terrible listener you really are.
2. not make eye contact. she hates this trust me.
3. be boring. women would rather be angry, frustrated, or fighting than be bored. thats #1 turn-off.

71

Sosuave.com

Let me know what you thought about my post. If you disagree tell me so i can prove you wrong.

72

leiu: I am not being funny. I “dated” two gay mwen. Its not fun.
note: gay men are fun, just not to date-if you are a woman.

Ace: One of my don’ts is-don’t call women chicks! :wink:

73

So…

  1. Stare at me
  2. Touch me.
  3. Don’t let me find out owt about you
  4. Give me no clue as to whether you fancy me or not.
  5. Mock me

That is not going to get you or anyone a second date with me, sunshine.

Now
6. Smile.
7. Confidence.
I don’t have a beef with - although it’s important not to let confidence turn into arrogance.

74

OK here goes. I guess a lot of the do’s and don’ts are simply flips sides of the same coin. I’ve tried to avoid that.

Do:

  1. Be polite. I don’t mean fussing around with seating me, or standing up when I leave the table, but simple good manners. these include being on time, being nice to the wait/barstaff making sure I get home/in taxi/on bus safely.

  2. Given that I’m shy with people I don’t know, I don’t mind if you talk a lot. Just give me the option to participate sometimes. And if you do dominate the converstation, don’t moan that I’m too quiet.

  3. Be presentable. Wash first. Some consideration as to how you are dressed. I’m not demanding Armani, just to know you’ve made an effort. Unless of course, you’ve already explained that you’re coming straight from work or something (if you are a slaughterman or drain cleaning operative this opt out doesn’t count).

  4. Remember that it’s possible to have different opinions without one of us being wrong. If I’m misinformed on a particular subject, I’m always keen to learn. Just extend me the same courtesy.

  5. Remember that a second date is not tantamount to a proposal of marriage. If I suggest meeting up again, it doesn’t mean I’ve decided to spend the rest of my life with you, whether you like it or not. Similarly, if I agree to meet again, it doesn’t mean I want to shag you. So, there’s nothing to be afraid of, is there?

Don’t

  1. Criticise. That includes what I choose to eat (I’ve heard all the anti-veggie rants and jokes before) and drink (if a lady doesn’t drink pints/more than one glass of wine, then I’m glad I’m not one). If I transgress some minor point of ettiquette, don’t make a big deal out of it.

  2. Be insensitive. You don’t know my boundaries, touchy subjects etc, any more than I know yours.

  3. Have too high expectations. Sure I’m no supermodel. If I was, I probably wouldn’t be dating you.

  4. Play games. If you don’t intend to call, don’t pretend you will. Saying otherwise is sparing your feelings, not mine. If you do intend to call again don’t leave it too long. The treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen thing only really works with those who like to play games themselves, so could easily backfire.

  5. Offer to pay if you don’t want to. Doing so with bad grace is unattractive. I’m happy to pay my own way. Of course, it might be sensible to put some thought into where we’ll be dining/drinking before hand, if this is the case.

75
  1. TubaDiva has already gotten on to both posters.
  2. We can’t delete our own posts, so withdrawing the post is not an option by either monica or notcynical.

Regarding the OP:

DON’Ts

  1. Don’t assume that because I’m white I share your prejudices.
  2. Don’t ask me out and then expect me to pay my share. Whoever does the asking does the treating. If I ask you out, I’ll do the paying. If you want to go to Chez Frenchie, don’t be surprised when the bill is high. If I wanted to pay those kinds of prices, I would’ve suggested the place to begin with.
  3. Don’t consider my hobbies silly or stupid. I wouldn’t do them if I thought they were dumb.
  4. Don’t criticize me. That’s the wrong tact to take on a first date/first meeting.
  5. Don’t explain the problems with your last ex/boss/family. I don’t like negative people.

DO’s

  1. Be polite to everyone, not just me.
  2. Make me laugh. Humor is very, very important to me.
  3. Ask questions and answer them.
  4. Be nice to my cats.
  5. Be yourself. Don’t tell me you like something you don’t. If our interests aren’t compatible, lying about them isn’t going to suddenly make them more so.
76

(I apologize if anyone is offended because I bounced this thread - I saved a link to it because I wanted to read it, and just now got around to it.)

Your response, as well-thought-out as it is, did not really clarify things for me. What if you need to be saved from a creepy guy on the first date?

I’ll give you a not-very-related example. Once I went to Mardi Gras in New Orleans with 3 other guys and a girl. Completely platonic. However, walking around the Vieux Carre (sp?), I found myself taking up a kind of defensive perimeter postion. It was not a conscious process, but I think I was sending a message to any drunk would-be suitors that their attentions would likely not be welcome. Was this a bad thing?

It has never happened to me, but I suppose I would take up a similar kind of position on a first date. Thoughts?

77

DO:
look nice.
be polite.
be confident.
open doors. it’ll make her smile, i promise. :slight_smile:
have a sense of humor.

DO NOT!!! EVER!!! UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES:
swear excessively
act like a general asshole (you guys know who you are)
be a mute. conversation is great! try it.

:mad:and ESPECIALLY do not:mad::
harbor excessive insecurities and bitterness. no, your depression and low self-esteem are not attractive. do not put yourself down every three sentences, DO NOT go off on your tirades about what’s wrong w/ women either. #1 turn off ever is badmouthing the whole entire gender. PLEASE do not get into the “all women like this…” and “all women do that…” or “how come women can’t…” etc etc. it makes you look hostile and pathetic. trust me, you will attract a lot more women with your confidence and charm than you will with bitterness and anger.

in short, just be polite, confident and generally amicable w/ a good sense of humor. if your date doesn’t work out, take it in stride and don’t go venting about it on your next date.

78

emolson, your action could have been good or bad, depending on what the girl you were “protecting” is like. If it were me, I would rather you just be a friend and skip the stuff that looks like territory claiming. “Territory claiming” is only permissible if some drunk guy is annoying me and I shoot you the look that says “get me outta here fast.”

79

I too will personalize here because all the generals are done and re-done:

DO NOT

Engage in any kind of snobbery. I enjoy fine wines, chocolates, literature etc… but don’t give me a line about how you’re too cool for bud light. Feel free not to enjoy it yourself, but everybody needs bubble gum for the senses, and you get nowhere pretending that you don’t.

Be condescending. Even if you’re in a very specialized/technical field, I may be interested and don’t take kindly to questioning of my intellectual rigor.

Be awkward about $$. Seriously, I’m often happy to pay for my share, and I certainly don’t mind being treated, but it should be worked out beforehand. There is no moment as uncomfortable as the moment the check comes and there are long silences…good lines are “Let me take you out to dinner (clearly your treat.)” or "You wanna catch that on DVD? I’ll make dinner if you’ll bring wine (A less formal dutch arrangement.)

Be distracted. If you’re calling to confirm where we’re meeting, or to get directions, don’t be playing Grand Tourismo in the background. Not only can I hear it and have it distract me, I can tell you’re not paying attention either.

Be bigoted or close minded. Again, if you don’t like sushi, that’s cool, but if I hear “I don’t EAT stuff that isn’t cooked/has seaweed/from Iowa” we likely will not see one another again. If I hear “He’s probably a damn fairy anyway” you may earn a glass of icewater down your front, and I’m sure we won’t be seeing one another again.

DO

Hmmm, the list here is short, but essentially it’s the opposite of everything listed above.
Also, pay attention and do everything within your power to make me feel like a lady. (Intelligent, lovely, graceful and humorous.) I will do everything in my power to make you feel like a gentelman.

80

Add to the DO NOT
Ever post without previewing, it is inevitable that you will err, and fail to impress people.