"You don't look too bad, you just need a boob job."

The BBQ Pit
81

As one of those supporting the OPs stance, I’d like to try and clarify for those that don’t seem to have gotten it yet.

We were NOT saying that women’s breasts are some sort of sacred blah blah blah. What we were trying to convey is that both the OP herself and the man in her OP were bemoaning their problems with WEIGHT. She did NOT invite comment on her breasts, he took THAT upon himself to introduce and rudely so.

Boobs, unlike weight, aren’t caused by anything the woman has done, or NOT done.

That, in addition to the other reasons given here (that of it’s rude to suggest plastic surgery to ANYONE regarding a feature over which they have no control, such as someone with a large nose as I suggested), is the point being made.

NOT “oh, whine whine, don’t dis my boobs, they’re sacred, blah blah etc”.l

Again, the two have little to do with each other, boobs are either big or small, (or medium etc) it’s NOT a matter of losing weight, or gaining weight. (which remember is what they WERE discussing, NOT plastic surgery).

You brought up the “don’t ask if my ass looks fat in these pants if you don’t want to hear the truth” argument.

Well, she did NOT ask “are my boobs too big etc etc”.

82

And this is a perfect example of what I am talking about, where a woman will engage in a conversation about body shaping and fitness in 2003 and still expect that her breasts will not be commented on when evaluating her overall shape, posture health etc. This is especially silly in that women are (by far) the main proponents of surgical body shaping. Breast reduction has exploded as a plastic surgery speciality in the last 10 - 15 years because women have demanded it for health and fitness reasons and to a lesser degree, aesthetic ones.

If someone has a huge pair of breasts, and a conversation about fitness and weight loss is in play, how is introducing the notion of breast reduction as a part of overall body shaping and health really all that different than talking about liposuction or doing buns of steel crunches. The answer is that in modern, real world practical terms, it’s not, but it is annoying, because being told some inherent part of your anatomy is in need of service is not something women like to hear from men, especially men they are evaluating as potential date material.

This artifical wall you insist on erecting between discussions of body shaping via exercise and dieting, and body shaping via surgery was breached by your sisters over 20 years ago in their determination to craft the bodies they desired. The fact that you are shocked and annoyed that it’s considered fair conversational game in informal discussions about fitness and body shaping is charming but a little old fashioned at this stage of modernity.

83

LOL, I’m not “shocked or annoyed” at all. And personally I couldn’t care less about my boobs, or anyone else’s.

My point is that converSATIONALLY both you, and a few others and the guy in the OP aren’t getting, logically speaking, that boobs, in the conversation in the OP, weren’t part of the “gee, I’d like to lose weight” conversation upon which the two of them had embafked.

Now, if she’d said “gee, I’d like to do some body shaping etc,” then PERHAPS it would have been germaine to the conversation.

As it was, logically speaking, it wasn’t.

Yes, the part of your post that refers to how common breast surgery has become is correct. And yes, women are the hardest critics of themselves, NONE of that is in dispute here.

What IS, is that his comment was just as uninvited had it been about her boobs OR any other part of her anatomy over which she had no NATURAL control.

If they’d been involved in an “image improvement” conversatoin, I could see it, but when two people are merely discussing weight loss and one suddenly veers off course with a body enhancement comment i(and that would go for liposuction, or getting your eyebrows lifted or whatnot) t’s certainly uninvited at the very least.

It’s not about “boobs are sacred and inviolate” regarding being discussed.
’
It’s about some things just aren’t something you blurt out.

And in THIS case, his comment was one of them.

84

Look, you’re not really upset that he mentioned that you have big tits. What you’re really upset about is that you were hoping to get in this guy’s pants, but it turns out he doesn’t find you attractive! You’re upset about having been scorned, but you don’t want to admit this, so instead you’re projecting your upset and pretending like you’re offended by his bad manners!

Bullshit! None of us are fooled! We all see through it!

And you know what, sweetie? Everyone gets rejected! We guys get rejected every day for all sorts of reasons! And we still survive. Get over it!

Alright, I’m done. Flame on.

85

Folks, please ignore transitionality. He seems to like to tell women they’re being rejected the same way lekatt likes to tell you about spirituality. Although to do lekatt justice, he is at least well meaning, while transitionality seems to be maliciously misogynistic.

transitionality, sweetie, she wasn’t rejected. And do you know why? While you, of course, are only in sleeping with Halle Berry and Monica Whatever-her-name-is, there are actually people in the world who try to build relationships, and therefore don’t actually expect or demand perfection in their partners’ appearances. He was mentioning what he thought was an imperfect area, not telling her that he wasn’t interested.

Oh, and sweetie? Wanting to “get in a guy’s pants” is something most of us outgrow by the age of twenty, if we ever go through it. For heaven’s sake, grow up!

86

I’ve slept with women twice that age who are willing to tell you how full of bullshit you are.

A woman hits her sexual prime around her mid-thirties. Who do you think you’re fooling?

87

Little boy, you’ve missed my point. The point is not that women lose interest in sex in their thirties. It’s that people (that is to say, women and men) usually outgrow the purely sexual focus to which the phrase “get in a guy’s (or gal’s, for that matter) pants” refers as we achieve adulthood. Sure we’re interested in sex. But we’re interested in a lot of things, and sex isn’t the only or even the first thing, at least not for most of us, at least not most of the time. Of course, it seems highly likely that you’ve never had an interaction with a woman that exceeded a single evening, so the chances are you haven’t been exposed to relationships and what they can offer beyond sex.

You know, you probably think you’re coming across on the boards as an experienced, albeit somewhat cynical, man of the world. Actually, what you’re coming across as is an embittered boy whose only interest in women has been sex, and who has been rejected so many times that he now is primarily interested in putting women down. If you’ve read this thread, you know that I’m not a believer in being “nice” all the time, nor do I believe that all exchanges should be sweetness and light, with everyone telling everyone else how wonderful they are. But your posts seem intended to be hurtful without any real purpose beyond that, and reveal a degree of shallowness and spite that you probably don’t particularly want as a reputation. You certainly have not gained either credibility or respect.

In short, and I really do mean this kindly, you’re making a bit of an ass of yourself.

88

I do see your point AvhHines, but disagree with it as well. We are in control (to a certain extent) of how we let other people make us feel. But one of my primary concerns in life is to avoid hurting other people’s feelings. It literally makes me sick if I think somebody feels bad because of something I said or did. If I’m going to criticize something about someone, I make damn sure they are receptive to it. Friendships end because of things like this. I was hoping (despite my ranting method) to get a certain message across, but I guess not everybody is that concerned about other people’s feelings.

Ah well, life goes on. Have fun with transitionality, I’m not even going to bother with him.

89

Yes, elegiac, I am completely unconcerned with the way anyone but myself feels, and utterly lacking in sensitivity. And I feel so good about myself since you were kind enough to imply that about me! And I’m sure your ex-friend, who bumbled into this in the first place, would be touched at your sensitivity as well.

Sorry, but you don’t to play the “I’m just more sensitive to others’ feelings card here.” Your feelings were hurt by somebody and you were venting about it. That doesn’t make you bad, but it also doesn’t make you noble. It just makes you human like the rest of us.

90

AvhHines, you’re putting words into my mouth again. What I am telling you that other people’s feelings are more important to me than blunt honesty. If blunt honesty is more important to you (your numerous references to anti-sweetness and anti-light indicates that this is the case), then so be it. It’s just an idea that is foreign to me. All I’m trying to do is explain why it is foreign to me. Don’t take such offense. You’re disproving your own argument.

And I have told you over and over that he is not an ex-friend.

91

elegiac (btw, I’ve been wondering, what does that mean - are you a fan of elegies?), I wasn’t offended! lol! I was trying to demonstrate that your self-proclaimed anxiety about other people’s feelings doesn’t go as far as you seemed to think. And that

was a little self-serving (and other-deprecating) for someone whose anxiety over hurting other people’s feelings makes her literally sick.

92

Wrong again, and demonstrably so.

Teenagers are usually only interested in sex, true enough, but it’s illegal to have sex with them. So that’s out of the question.

Twentysomething girls, while sexually charged, are looking out for the twin interests of sexual opportunities and an eligible bachelor for marriage purposes. Despite thirty years of feminist propaganda, an overwhelming majority of girls still feel like they will remain alone and worthless and stigmatized for life unless they wed before their thirties. So every time I deal with a single girl in her twenties, I have to avoid the whole husband-seeking spiel first. It gets tiring.

Women in their thirties no longer care about finding a husband, because they’re usually already married – and if expressing interest in me, married to a man who sexually frustrates them. They’re clearly interested in one thing and one thing only! No muss & no fuss, as long as the whole thing is discreet.

Women in their twenties who happen to be married aren’t a safe proposition, because they have trouble separating love from sex, and when they fall in love, it just complicates things. So I just try to stay away from that demographic.

93

And it must be terribly difficult with all of them pursuing you so hard. Your charm and understanding of their psyches, I’m sure, just overwhelms them! :smiley:

Transi, baby, you’re utterly clueless. You really don’t get it at all. I’m not saying there are nowomen out there who are as you describe; there are a few (and you can find a lot of their pictures/profiles on the internet! - beware of hidden costs and hold on to your wallet, though). But if you think the majority of discontented wives are discontented because they want hot monkey sex that you can provide them, you’re really missing the boat. In fact, if you think most teenage girls are only out for hot sex, you’re missing it.

What a lovely, simplistic world you live in. Women want either support or sex.

Your sophistication and wide experience just shine through with every word.:rolleyes:

94

Elegiac - expressing sorrow often for something now past.

AvhHines, I apologize. My intention was not to be self-serving and other-deprecating. I was trying to make my point, while playing by your rules. I’ve obviously failed miserably. I think I’ll just cut my losses and get out of this thread.

95

They call it by a number of different names: Romance, passion, thrill, adventure, feeling like a woman again, being desired, blah blah blah. Some poetry and some imagination goes into it. But at the end of the day, it’s just sex.

96

Goodbye, transi. Some people are worth arguing with. You, despite your obvious intellect and education, are not.

97

Ooooh, running away from a debate while slinging a last-ditch Argumentum ad Hominem must make you feel like such a man!

Go ahead, commit another logical fallacy. Go down with a bang, not with a whimper. Really, I insist.

98

Really, Transi, you don’t understand women 10% as well as you think you do.

It’s almost amusing in a really-bad-cartoon kind of way.

99

Good heavens, I hope not! I am, as I mentioned earlier, a woman! :smiley:

And what a silly thing for you to say anyway! This hasn’t been a logical debate, into which facts are being brought. This is purely a matter of opinion, because there are no facts that can prove or disprove your (to my eyes, rather silly) point. Another person might have found my input on the topic valuable, since unlike you, I am a woman, and have, I’m willing to bet, at least twice your years of experience, but then you’re not here to learn anything, or even exchange information. Your purpose here appears to be to spew vitriol, particularly, judging from your posts here and elsewhere, on women.

It was obvious from the start that I wasn’t going to change your mind, but I did nurse some foolish hope that I could get you to see that, regardless of what you may think, you look like a total idiot on these boards. But either your ego is too inflated to allow you to recognize that, or you’re willing to take attention any way you can get it (my bets are on the latter); in either case, there’s no point in carrying the attempt further.

So no, that wasn’t a logical fallacy, sweetheart, because it wasn’t a debate, or even, really, an argument. Now, run along and bother someone else; Mommy’s been working all day, and she’s sick of dealing with you right now.

100

I’m a size 8/10 and wear a D cup…I’ve never had anyone tell me I needed a reduction, but I have had numerous women (that I didn’t know) ask me how much they cost. Its very annoying :wink: