"You don't look too bad, you just need a boob job."

The BBQ Pit
61

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvhHines *
BTW, I suspect most men would be utterly astonished that a woman would be sensitive about her boobs being "too big."
Told ya so!:stuck_out_tongue:

**ChunkyLover53 **, while I find elegiac to have been very oversensitive in this particular case, it’s no joke for her or any other woman (and especially teenage girl) to go through life with her chest preceding her by 6+ inches. It can really suck.

Oh, and btw, any woman who spotted your eight foot dick would run like crazy! There’s a thread wandering around here someplace (IMHO?) that demonstrates that women (or at least Doper women) are more likely to complain about too big than too small. Hate to rip up your illusions, but there it is.

62

Sorry, chunkylover53, but I agree with AvhHines.

And for the record, chunkylover53, what do you call a woman making love to an 8 foot dick?

An Episiotomy.
…Well, that or Mrs. Kobe Bryant…

63

Well, first of all, in a social situation where you are not extremely close to the woman in question… it ain’t safe to talk about body fat.

It ain’t even safe to answer the question “do these pants make my ass look big.” Trust me on this one.

And even if the OP were interested in a blunt opinion, somehow I find it VERY hard to interpret the guy’s answer as other than kind of thoughtless and rude.

I mean, ultimately, it boils down to this: “You know, you would look better to me after you had some kind of cosmetic surgery.”

Now imagine being told that by someone you were thinking of dating.

Pardon the hell out of me, but that’s goddamn RUDE!

64

Oh, lord, Wang-Ka if there’s anyone on this entire board with whom I hate to disagree, it’s you! Not only are you the funniest writer around, but I usually agree with you on issues. (Yes, you have no idea who I am, and that’s fine - I normally lurk.)

I hate to disagree, but I do. But at this point, we’re back to “Yes, it is.” “No, it’s not” so I’m willing to call it a day at this point.

Once again, agree to disagree, and I won’t post again unless someone calls my name.

:slight_smile:

65

…you disagree that it ain’t safe to discuss fat with women?

Or you disagree that it’s rude to suggest cosmetic surgery to someone to make them easier to look at?

66

I didn’t SAY that. I said it’s not her fault if her boobs are large or small (unless of course she’s had surgical enhancement or reduction already). Her NATURAL boob size is not something a woman controls by controlling her weight.

Again, I range from a size 6 to an 11. My boobs never change one millimeter. It doesn’t matter how much I work out, or how much I starve myself my boobs unless and until I get them surgically reduced, are going to be a size 32DDD.

You’re still missing the point. You seem to have not read my post at all. Two people discussing their various weight issues and offering suggestions and constructive criticims about fitness, weight loss, diet and etc, is ONE thing.

Boobs aren’t a “weight” issue. They’re either there or they’re not. It’s not like "oh, if I just wasn’t a fat pig I wouldn’t have these boobs.

It’s no more okay to comment on whether you think someone needs a boob job than it would be to point out to someone “WOW, you’ve sure got a big nose!!! You know?? There’s surgery for that”!!

It’s not as if, like the weight issue, that her boob size is something over which she has control.

Again, they’re part and parcel of being a woman, NOT something that can simply be “dieted” away or worked off.

And they’re not even something that necessarily should be “corrected” surgically.

It’s not as if people here are being “too sensitive” it’s that folks (like the guy in the OP) that think it’s okay to say just any ole thing that comes into their head are being to obtuse and idiotic.

Maybe he wasn’t TRYING to be rude, but that’s what fighting ignorance is, in part, about. In case people didn’t know, now they do, the sort of thing referred to int he OP is NOT “okay”.

Some people know “rocket science” so to speak, and I for one, and awed by them. Some of us know appropriate social behaviour and the “norm” of how one should behave with others, and blurting out inanities about a feature of someone’s appearance about which they can do NOTHING is NOT appropriate.

67

Actually, I don’t necessarily agree with your first point - it very much depends on the woman. Some of us may not be happy with our bodies, but we don’t blame someone for noticing it, or for being honest about it if the topic arises.

Your second point is phrased in such a way as to make it impossible to disagree with. But if you read my earlier posts, you’ll see that I don’t think that’s what he was saying and that the nature of the conversation was such that criticism of the mild nature that he gave was not inappropriate.

I don’t think the world is well served by incessant (and dishonest) sweetness and light - I’d prefer to know what another person is thinking regardless of how unflattering to me it might be. And I don’t hold other people responsible for my own (self-perceived) flaws - or for reminding me of them, particularly when other people may not be aware that I consider them flaws. That doesn’t mean that I don’t recognize rudeness when I see it. Had the guy’s remarks come from nowhere, had he been a stranger or had they not been discussing the topic they were, I would certainly consider him to have been an utter jerk. As it is, I don’t. But I’m really not trying to pick a fight here. If you want to think he’s an asshole, fine.

68

A good point here!!

Regarding the intent of the statement. If the guy was just oblivious (as some seem to be) to the fact that it really IS rude to suggest someone needs plastic surgery, then yeah, I can see where you could “let it slide” in a “he didnt’ know what he was saying” way.

BUT, I’d certainly bring it to his attention for future reference that, NO, this sort of thing is NOT socially acceptable.

69

First of all, I have at no point in this thread called him an asshole. Please don’t put words in my mouth. My rant is against people who bring up negative physical characteristics, and advice on how to correct said characteristics, without prompting. This is called an ‘unsolicited opinion.’ As CanvasShoes so eloquently explained, breast size and weight have very little to do with each other. He may have been trying to be helpful, but his method was definitely lacking.

He is not the first person in my life to offer such an opinion, nor will he be the last, but it was this particular episode which prompted me to post my rant. I had hoped that this thread might encourage others to think before doing something similar to others. I do believe that in the vast majority of cases, people are more than aware of their physical imperfections and any methods of correction that may exist.

I do apologize for my excessive use of sarcasm. You are an excellent example of why I should not assume people recognize my tone. Thank you for helping me learn that lesson.

Others have explained better than I in this thread why it is a matter of politeness. I suggest you re-read those posts.

I am starting to wonder whether you are even reading and/or absorbing my statements. Whether or not I am accepting of my body has little or nothing to do with my basic point. And once again, my basic point is this: I am annoyed at the ease with which some people feel justified in telling me not only what is wrong with my appearance, but also how I can correct it. I understand that you are more comfortable with people being ‘honest and open,’ and that is just fine for you. But don’t tell me that it is fine for someone to be rude, and I am being ‘overly sensitive’ if I take issue with that. Don’t tell me that being brutally honest is not being rude. We should have all learned that lesson in grade school. I believe there are certain societal guidelines which we should all follow, at least until we are well-acquainted enough with someone to recognize whether or not they would welcome blunt honesty.

To quote a modern-day philosopher, “We’re trying to have a civilization here!”

Again, as I said to quietman, I will forgive him. I will even tell him why I was so upset. You are the one who keeps calling him an asshole, not me.

70

Did you even READ the OP??? That’s EXACTLY what the guy in the OP said to elegiac, that is that she needed to get a boob job!

And again, that is akin to telling somene “HEY, you need to get plastic surgery on that giant nose of yours”!

71

avabeth, I am sorry that I am just now getting around to responding to your post. I’m afraid I got rather caught up in the rest of the thread.

I have heard that a breast reduction greatly reduces your chances of being able to breastfeed. While I do not know whether or not I will ever have children, if I do, I would prefer to have the option to breastfeed them if I so choose. Perhaps down the road, when I have gotten past the childbearing stage, if I feel that I would benefit from it, I will consider the procedure.

It was wrong of your doctor to ‘gloss over’ your concerns. I once had a doctor that explained all the possible negative effects of eye surgery so thoroughly that I decided against it. I would probably do the same with breast reduction surgery. It would be just like me to reject a nipple, or something.

I am happy that you feel more comfortable with your body, though. It’s always great when that happens, no matter the route taken to achieve the feeling.

72

elegiac please forgive me for having mistaken this:

for a rant about what an asshole someone was, rather than for the noble and selfless attempt to

that it was. How could I have been so foolish? :smack:

CanvasShoes, as I’ve repeated several times,

is not quite the same thing as “You should get a boob job - you’d look one helluva lot better!”

73

You know, its August, its Hot and while maybe I’m misreading some posts, some tempers seem to have flared.

I’d like to say up front that there isn’t a person here that I wouldn’t buy a beer for. I’d like to take a moment to thank Elegiac for a great thread that has brought out responses from all of us. I’d like to think that because of our discussions here, people will think before making breast comments…and I think that that is a positive result.

Can we all agree to disagree on certain points as mentioned prior? And if not, at this point, might I suggest Super-Soakers at 10 paces?

74

Well, it’s not hot up here, but I’ll take the super soaker challenge! And I’ll even pack my 32DDDs into a teeshirt!!

FTR, I hope my posts didn’t come out as anger, I wasn’t at all. Just perplexed that the OP’s point seemed to be being missed by some.

75

I rather liked CanvasShoes’ analogy about someone saying, “Gee, you’ve got a big nose. You’d look a lot better after having a nose job.”

…and that’s pretty much how I saw it. I mean, I wasn’t there. I don’t know if he’s an asshole or not. I’d leave that up to Elegiac, anyway, since I know I sure don’t wanna date the guy. I’m married, for one thing. And the wrong gender. Although he would probably like MY boobs, as they are quite small.

AvhHines makes a good point, too. Perhaps the guy did not INTEND to be rude. In fact, based on Elegiac’s original statement and clarifications since then, it seems fairly evident that he wasn’t trying to make her miserable or be a dick or whatever.

…but he said something kinda thoughtless that kinda put her off a bit. And she made the apparent mistake of griping about that on this message board.

AvhHines, if we disagree, we disagree. I’m certainly not gonna be a Nazi about it; you’re entirely entitled to your opinion, and if you’re going to be all reasoned and civilized about it, you make it very difficult to rage and froth and swear vengeance and stalk you and hunt you down and rape your dog and pee on your prize begonias or whatever.

…but I think I’d wait to get to know someone pretty WELL before I began suggesting that they have themselves surgically altered. I mean, Miss Manners I ain’t, but I can’t help but feel that unsolicited suggestion of cosmetic surgeries to one’s acquaintances … um… kinda counts as a “faux pas,” so to speak.

I suspect it was unintentional, though, and certainly not meant to hurt or demean. This doesn’t necessarily FIX it, but it’s certainly better than the kind of person who enjoys bludgeoning someone with brutal candor, and then getting all offended when the target doesn’t like it. I’ve met several people like that in my lifetime, and I tend to class them as “people who enjoy being rude.”

But, hey, I wasn’t there. Just spouting off, here. My opinion, for what it’s worth. And if I’ve gotten a snicker or a thought out of anyone, my work for the day is done… :wink:

76

Forgive me for being a hapless newbie, but this forum is called The BBQ Pit, is it not? I thought gratuitous expletives and flared tempers were expected here. I did want to make a point, which I think I did, and of course I got to throw around some words I never speak aloud lest my sainted mother should overhear (despite being 150 miles away) and somehow bring the wrath of god down upon my head.

To be honest, the thought has crossed my mind more than once that AvhHines was just yanking my chain by playing devil’s advocate. I’m still half-suspecting that’s what she is trying to do. I am really just trying to play along.

I could really use that beer, quietman. I think I’m in over my head here.

77

First pitcher’s on me!

For the record I agree with both of you on many points. But in the end, I always knew it was your feelings, Elegiac that had been hurt. I thought that most of the points and counter points had been made already, and Very Well I may add. You are both fine debators in your own right.

It just seemed that after you had let loose yesterday that today you were starting to heal. And this afternoon the posts, like a Montana forrest fire, started to heat up again. I guess I was just worried that it would be counter to the healing process.

If we’re going to be straight here though, I guess I have to be straight with all of you. There was a point in time in my life several years back when I said something less than stellar to a good friend. I didn’t mean to hurt her…but hurt her I did all the same. She never forgave me for it. She never spoke to me since. It affected me deeply.

Now, a lot of water has run under that bridge, and I can honestly say that I couldn’t have become who I am today without going through that experiance. But it wasn’t fun…and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I learned that People can & do screw up every day. I learned getting on with your life, getting past it, and learning from it are important on one side; and that healing and learning to forgive are important to learn on the other.

But that’s a hijack…and shouldn’t take away from what happened here. Someday, once this has blown over, maybe you’ll both find yourself in a bar by a pitcher of beer with two glasses. Get a third glass, fill it with beer and set it on the bar. Then propose a toast. Turn to him, look him Straight in the eye and say:
" To the Unforgiven… because that was Almost you."

78

Thank you! I’m very new here, so I don’t know how this topic goes on this board but I know what I’ve experienced in my own life.

I’m short and small. Big deal. I don’t get on the scale much but hover at around 5-7 pounds under what my doctor would like me to weigh. People (mostly other women) think NOTHING of saying to me about gaining a little weight. There is one woman where I work who makes the same dumb joke at any potluck. She says “Let Daisy go first, she needs the food a lot more than we do.” She’s a larger woman, and I’m sure I’d be looked at as a clod if I said “Oh no, you go first because you obviously like to eat more than I do.” or something equally as crass.

The comment itself doesn’t really bug me that much, it’s the fact that it’s acceptable for her to make it. I believe you’re right that some people just don’t understand.

79

Here’s the deal. My female dog, Megan, is 55 lbs of Staffordshire Terrier/Mastiff mix. She’s very sweet, but I suspect if she didn’t take to being raped, she’d rip your face off. And, Mr. Ka, I like your writing way too well to want that to happen! (My male dog, Max, 45 lbs of German Shepherd/Spitz mix, is a wimp, but does get fear-aggressive, so he’s probably not a good choice either.) :stuck_out_tongue: Also, I don’t have any begonias. So what choice do I have?

Although this probably does me in completely in your book, elegiac, I’ve actually meant every word I’ve said, and I find it hard to imagine that you find what I’m saying to be so ludicrous that you’d think I was yanking your chain. :frowning: I never do that; I don’t think it’s funny. I really can see your point; it’s just that I disagree with it, and I really wish you could see mine, even though you disagree. I think you’re putting the responsibility for your feelings on him, and I don’t think the situation, as described by you merits that. But hey, I’m obviously not going to convince you, and the fact is, it’s not going to do him any harm. So, carry on. :slight_smile:

It has not been my intention to offend or annoy, and I hope I have not done so. If I have done so, I sincerely apologize.

80

Nametag’s post is the most cogent one I have seen to date in this thread re the described incident. Guys do idiot stuff like this all the time, especially when women are in flirt or seeking support mode, and like women are wont to do, are kvetching about some part of their body or physical condition they are displeased with, and the man offers a practical suggestion that takes the conversation out of the nattering stage, and shines a light on some aspect of the woman’s physique he thinks needs help. Typically the woman will turn to ice or go apeshit with fury at his suggestion. Idiot boy will then look around and go “What?….What’d I do?”

Woman and men often have vastly different expectations about the goal of these sorts of conversations and it’s not always the man’s fault, as a woman will often hand him just enough conversational rope to hang himself in these situatitons.

As to those posters supporting the silly notion that breasts are some sort of sacred, inviolate, goddess part of a women’s anatomy that should never be critiqued, I would encourage them to join the 21st century where it’s overwhelmingly women who have supported the growth of the plastic surgery profession by looking at their bodies as modular building blocks that can be added to or reduced on a aesthetic whim or for health reasons. Based mainly on women’s pioneering use of body modification and augmentation surgery, men have bought into this notion and are now beginning to look at physical attributes in the same sort of Legoland way many women already do.

Advice for women: Do not engage men in some potential variant of “Does my butt look fat in these” unless they are clued in to the ground rules.

Advice for men: If women insist on talking about their physical attributes in any way, shape or form just be complimentary or otherwise keep.your.piehole.shut.