lswote:
Over the past few days you have made some ill-advised comments, and people have responded with hostility. In response, you made what you claimed was an apology, though the statement showed no real contrition. When everyone did not immediately back down, you commenced an ongoing series of whiny complaints that people were not accepting your apology, as you continued to lash out at those who objected to your responses. Meanwhile, there were many posters (myself included) who politely advised you that your comments were not winning you any points and that you could get out of the situation by simply dropping it.
Rather than listening to those who would help you, you continue to take every possible opportunity to repeat and embellish your tales of woe, and complain how everyone is picking on you. Your act has gone well past “wearing thin” and now reveals you as an exquisitely self-absorbed turd who is unwilling to hear what everyone around him is saying, but rather persists in his keeping himself wrapped up his self-pitying complaints. Well we’re tired of your crap.
Let’s review the bidding, shall we.
The Initial Thread
This episode started in the Ladies, what is it you look for in a guy? thread, in which you requested: “Help me out ladies. What does it take for a guy to get your interest?” A large number of women weighed on the matter, with direct answers to the questions. One of the main attractive features they recognized was confidence.
You responded with a long post about the difficulties you have in gaining confidence and otherwise matching the attributes raised by the women’s earlier posts. In the course of the post you discussed comments that Green Bean made at the brunch she graciously invited you to after your post about how lonely you were and how you knew no one in the area you had moved to. (In the interests of full disclosure, I will state that Green Bean is my sister.) You recognized that: “Several women in the thread said I was too focused on myself and I need to focus on others and their feelings.” However, you professed to not understand what they were talking about.
After more people weighed in, Green Bean commented: “I can tell you that there is one thing that women definitely don’t want in a man–and that is for them to take things that they say wildly out of context and broadcast them publicly.” In response, you proceeded to publicly broadcast a fuller description of those things that she objected to your discussing in the first place, still leaving them out of context.
After a little more back and forth, ultress weighed in with: “wooo well it seems that you are already lacking in three aspects of what women are looking for…honesty, a sense of humor, and confidentiality.” Since this comment seems to be what sparked the whole contretemps, let’s take a moment and analyze it. First off, it’s a pretty good one liner. A little harsh and cutting, but funny (with the “wooo” intro, to show it to be a humorous retort, rather than a personal dig).
But how accurate is it? It does include the qualifier “seems”, but let’s go past that. The exchange with Green Bean shows your disregard for confidentiality (or at least a failure to understand where confidentiality is appropriate, even when reminded). There is no discernable humor in any of your posts in the thread, and in fact you seem inclined to take things that were said lightly a little too seriously.
This leaves honesty, the comment you object to most. There are a couple of things about honesty in that I saw the thread. First off, Brittainy made the request (apparently with some basis in past personal history): “Don’t lead a woman on just because you are lonely then try to meet someone on a message board.” This would indicate at least a lack of candor in relationships with women. Now, there was nothing on the thread that indicated that you stated a direct untruth, but it seems to me that the whole tenor of your commentary indicated that you are at the least self-deceptive in your relationships, if not the sort of person who might not be completely honest. Altogether I’d call the statement a fair comment and opinion, if not 100% factually supported.
You response in that thread was: “ultress and blueslady have deemed me a liar with no sense of humor and no confidentiality. I guess Green Bean has weighed in with that opinion too. Please arrange for my immediate execution. I don’t deserve to live.” More important, you started a thread in the Pit attempting to flame ultress for her comment.
The Pit Thread
Since the Pit thread appears to have been removed (at your request), I’ll let you describe what happened. From the original post in your I learned an expensive lesson yesterday thread:
Let me reconstruct a bit of what happened in that thread. After your attempted flame, a number of posters jumped in flaming you back, both defending ultress and commenting on some of your personal deficiencies. In response, you made the following post:
Understandably, some of the “hags”, as you describe, them got on your case a bit more. Eventually you issued what purported to be an apology. However, the tone of the apology was not a sincere expression of regret or remorse at saying something out of line. Rather, it was more along the lines of “they provoked me and I got out of line, but I really didn’t mean it.”
Not surprisingly, few accepted your purported apology, and you kept getting hammered. You seemed surprised that expressing equivocal regret about your comments did not immediately stop the flow of quite deserved abuse.
Learning Your Lesson???
After the Pit thread, you started your I learned an expensive lesson yesterday thread in MPSIMS. Unfortunately, that thread indicated that you had not learned any lessons. In the beginning of that thread, most everyone was supportive, though there were some comments expressing disapproval of your actions. Your response was not to acknowledge any of the support you received, nor to show you learned your lesson by ignoring the brickbats thrown out at you, but rather to lash back at a poster who sniped at you.
More supportive posters weighed in, including one who expressly pointed out: “Here’s a tip. when someone says that they were trying to be nice, ACCEPT IT AND THANK THEM, FOR GODS SAKE!!” Your response to this was:
Jezebel’s immediate reaction to this was the good advice: “First rule of holes, lswote: when you find yourself in one, stop digging.” You shot back:
This comment proved unmistakably that you had failed to learn any lessons from your intemperate posts and the reactions to them. The thread continued to deteriorate thereafter. Thereafter, Eutychuss55 closed the thread at your request.
Your Latest Whines
About when your “lesson learned” thread was closed, Green Bean started up a thread The Hags of the Straight Dope, in which she quoted your first “hags” comment (without naming you), and said:
A large number of female and male posters joined in, asking to be designated hags. You the stirred the pot by adding this charming comment (in a thread that had mentioned your name nowhere):
Later last night, you started another thread, Please stop hurting me., in which you described the Hags thread correctly, at least in part:
As several other posters pointed out, your characterization of the thread as “community bonding” for women was correct. Although your comment was an inspiration for the thread, it was ultimately not about you, but rather something for the women of this board to celebrate themselves. It was not until you yourself posted a vulgarity into the thread that anyone addressed you or your earlier comments in other than the most anonymous manner. Stated simply, it was in no way a “tool to hurt” you.
With your latest comments in the Hags thread and the Hurting Me thread we come to the crux of the matter. In the Hags thread, you were asked regarding the “hags on the rag” comment whether that was an apology. You responded:
Later in that thread you said:
In the Hurting Me thread, you pointed out:
You later added:
With this, the history is up to date.
My Suggestions for Improvement, or THE RANT
Listen, loser-boy! I mean take your fingers out of your ears and LISTEN to what people are saying to you. Dozens of well-intentioned, well-respected posters have given you good advice and encouragement. But do you listen to any of it? Even acknowledge any of the constructive suggestions that were made in good faith? No, you trap yourself in your self-pity party and dwell exclusively on the (initially) few jabs that were made at you. You are so utterly self-absorbed and wrapped up in defending your mantle of pathetic loser, that you will not even begin to hear the suggestions you solicit for improvement. Rather, you make weak, whiny excuses for why you will never break out of your self-destructive cycle.
You know what, you’re right. If you persist in your look-at-me-I’m-so-pathetic attitude you’ll forever remain a lonely loser. So sorry.
It seems you have at least some recognition of what is required for you not to be a worthless turd, but you get it entirely backwards. You asked whether people must “just lay there with their soft underbelly exposed after an apology while everyone evaluates the quality of the apology and points out shortcomings that continue to exist?” I’m afraid so. That’s the nature of an apology.
In apologizing, you prostrate yourself (if only metaphorically) to the person who you have offended and wait to see if that person accepts the apology. In so doing, the offended person may well point out additional shortcomings, but that’s part of the risk you take. But a sincere apology (which yours was not), if accepted, should mitigate (if not entirely eliminate) the attacks.
It is inconceivable to me that you are so stupid or clueless that you haven’t figured out by now that simply stating that you made a mistake is not apologizing. Try “I made a mistake, I will attempt to rectify the harm I have caused, and I will endeavor not to make the mistake again.” Or even a simple “I’m sorry.” (And it shouldn’t be “I’m sorry that I fouled up”, but rather “I’m sorry for the harm I caused to the offended person”). Beyond saying those words, following them up with deeds adds mightily to the appearance of sincerity.
Similarly baffling is your conception that complaining about one person in the Pit is not an invitation for everyone to weigh in on the underlying issue, whether they support or oppose your position, or you, for that matter. In taking it to the Pit, you open yourself to whatever may come along (just like I have opened myself by posting this in the Pit). It is particularly cowardly to post a complaint in the Pit, and then ask for its removal when it goes against you. (And I disagree with the SDMB administration’s action in removing the thread at your request.)
Most disturbing is your conception that being provoked is some valid justification for saying vulgar things to women at large. I quote: “I agree that I said the hags reference in the thread in the pit, but I didn’t say it unprovoked.” You didn’t say it unprovoked!
Unfortunately for you, there is no “third man in” rule here on the boards. If someone insults someone else, I’m afraid that it is a public board, and anyone is entitled to pull up their lawn chair and watch, or to wade right in to the scrum and have a go at whoever they feel like slamming. If you say something offensive, you have to be prepared to get hit, no matter how “justified” you believe it is. Moreover, the judge of whether something is justifiably provoked is not the person who said it. Rather, each person deciding on whether to respond makes that call. And if that person decides that it wasn’t justified, he or she can make the hit (again, at the risk of counter-punches).
No matter how much you whine about it, you won’t change the way of the board.
The core problem here, however, appears to be your perception that everything that is said about, concerning, or in any way relating to one of your threads is about you, personally. I’m afraid to tell you that the world (and even the board) does not revolve around you, bub. People go off here in all directions, regardless of the intentions or feelings of the original poster. Most of the time, it isn’t even close to personal, particularly if there is an element of humor in it. (Rest assured, however, that this post is about you and I’m stating what I mean).
So, lswote, drop this issue and loosen up. Listen to what those who are giving you advice say, and ignore the negative posters. Think before you post, and when you post improvidently step back, apologize sincerely, and LET IT GO.
You’ve seen what’s out there. Disengage!
I don’t belong here.