A question about Pit thread-starting etiquette

[What_Exit]

@Bryan_Ekers

There are people starving in Africa who don’t even have Pit threads.

They can have mine, it got boring rather fast.

Ensign Edison, it looks like you pulled a Carol Stream*. Someone had a legit complaint but you had to be the one to tell them how minor their problem is. It makes you looks jerkish but you are correct in that nothing prevents you from doing it.

Where you really compounded this was by not noticing how much the tone of the pit thread had changed after Harmonious Discord’s disclosure of many additional facts. You would have been better off ignoring jayjay’s post and not starting this thread.

If you want to see written down that **jayjay **was technically wrong. I’ll agree with you. However the style of your initial post will almost always appear jerkish to others. So you did nothing actually wrong except make a jerkish post in the pit and then misread the way the thread had changed into a MPSIMS thread. I wouldn’t call it a major mistake and I believe it would have gone away fast if you didn’t bother to start this pit thread.

**CaerieD **summed it up perfectly in her example.

Jim

• I’ve notice that even **Carol Stream **seems to have stopped making these types of posts.

[Ensign_Edison]

@What_Exit

So you did nothing actually wrong except make a jerkish post in the pit and then misread the way the thread had changed into a MPSIMS thread.

This is the crux of my question, and I’m increasingly hope for more mod clarification. It was not my understanding that we had to start pretending Pit threads were not Pit threads because they were going nicely for the OP. It seems that you, tom, and everyone else are now saying that instead of threads being moved forums, or marked as non-pit-rules, we should just know when it’s only a Pit thread in name but should be treated like a MPSIMS thread in content. …

Obviously when you say “fuck you” to somebody, you’re not doing it to be a really nice guy. It was my impression that it’s okay to say “fuck you because of the specific content of your post for these reasons” in the Pit even if everyone else is on the OP’s side. Apparently that has changed somewhere along the line, and I’d like to see it officially clarified that it’s considered rude to say fuck you for on-topic reasons in the Pit if you’re the only one in the thread saying it.

[Muffin]

You really are hopeless.

Stop asking for clarification, and start acting like a reasonable person.

[Fenris]

@Ensign_Edison

That’s my read as well. I also agree that it’s possible to be rude. My question was whether I should have started a new thread to be the horrible asshole you all are saying my position makes me, not whether we can do whatever we want at any time.

So your thought is: Everyone thinks I’m being a horrible asshole for spewing garbage in that other thread. My two options were:

1. Spew my garbage in that thread
2. Start a new thread to spew my garbage

Someday young padwan, you’ll see that the mysterious third option (Don’t spew garbage at all) might just possibly be your best bet.

[Hockey_Monkey]

Wow, you are thick.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Muffin

You really are hopeless.

Stop asking for clarification, and start acting like a reasonable person.

Do you think it’s rude to post an on-topic opinion that differs from the majority within a Pit thread? For example, if you happened to think I was a delightful chap with many good points, would you be obligated, under Pit etiquette, to start your own thread saying so because it would differ from the majority view? Please see if you can answer this question without obsessively hammering on the point of what an asshole you think I am.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Hockey_Monkey

Wow, you are thick.

Okay, thanks for letting me know. What is your opinion on whether we should start whole new Pit threads to flame someone over another Pit thread if that first one is going well for them?

[Fenris]

@Ensign_Edison

Okay, so to be clear, if everyone within a Pit thread is agreeing, then we should start whole new Pit threads to disagree? That has been my question all along. It was not my understanding that the Pit was meant to be used for threads where the poster could demand only supportive posts, or that it was rude to post an opinion different from the majority on the subject of the OP. Can you clarify that it is rude to do so?

Dude–mods dont’ worry about “rude”, they worry about “jerkish”.

You were being a dick, not a jerk.

It’s not that only agreement is permitted, it’s that your objections were stupid, jealousy-induced drivel.

If you’d posted something like “If you’d known that this ill-trained dog would be coming over, why’d you leave the ham out. This is largely your fault” you wouldn’t have gotten shit–even though you’d disagreed with the OP (in point of fact, someone actually DID post something like this with no flashback).

People aren’t objecting to you castigating the OP…just that you’re a fucking douche for doing a “My Christmas was MUCH worse than yours. How dare you complain”…jealousy is NEVER pretty.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Fenris

So your thought is: Everyone thinks I’m being a horrible asshole for spewing garbage in that other thread. My two options were:

1. Spew my garbage in that thread
2. Start a new thread to spew my garbage

Someday young padwan, you’ll see that the mysterious third option (Don’t spew garbage at all) might just possibly be your best bet.

No, my thought is that whether I’m an asshole is irrelevant to the question of whether we should start new Pit threads to flame people for the content of existing Pit threads that are supportive of the original poster. Do you have any thoughts on that subject?

[Ensign_Edison]

@Fenris

People aren’t objecting to you castigating the OP…just that you’re a fucking douche for doing a “My Christmas was MUCH worse than yours. How dare you complain”…jealousy is NEVER pretty.

Not only did I never say that, I specifically repudiated it in that thread. My comment would stand even if everybody on earth had everything they needed, and I never said one word about my personal experience. But that doesn’t matter here, so again, do you have an opinion on the question of whether, assuming I intend to use my ability to post my view the same way you do, I should have been an enormous, unjustified asshole within that thread, or in a whole new one?

[Captain_Amazing]

@elucidator

When you “threadshit”, that’s a rule. When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that’s a more.

Did I ever tell you about my plan to open a restaurant that serves deep fried eel? It’s going to be called, “Oh Tempura, Oh Moray”.

[What_Exit]

@Ensign_Edison

This is the crux of my question, and I’m increasingly hope for more mod clarification. It was not my understanding that we had to start pretending Pit threads were not Pit threads because they were going nicely for the OP. It seems that you, tom, and everyone else are now saying that instead of threads being moved forums, or marked as non-pit-rules, we should just know when it’s only a Pit thread in name but should be treated like a MPSIMS thread in content. …

Obviously when you say “fuck you” to somebody, you’re not doing it to be a really nice guy. It was my impression that it’s okay to say “fuck you because of the specific content of your post for these reasons” in the Pit even if everyone else is on the OP’s side. Apparently that has changed somewhere along the line, and I’d like to see it officially clarified that it’s considered rude to say fuck you for on-topic reasons in the Pit if you’re the only one in the thread saying it.

You slightly misread me. I was never saying you did anything wrong by pit standards. I was trying to softly say that in misreading the way the thread had gone, you made yourself look like a jerk. If you don’t want to look like a jerk you have to read the tone of the threads better or just be willing to chance looking like a jerk. Most of us have.

Responding to jayjay’s big dig at you the way you did was at a point in a thread where you could do yourself no favors. At that point you either had to weasel out and make the excuse that you didn’t know enough of the story when you made your post and try to soften what you said, just take your lumps and not post or accept the fact that you would look like a jerk posting the way you did.

I would say that you were in a no win situation as the tone of the thread had already turned too much. So your initial jerkish post looked extremely jerkish by the time the exchanges with **jayjay **began.

Please do not read this as excusing your first post, I am just trying to give you my read of what your posting appears like in that thread.

[Stratocaster]

@Ensign_Edison

Do you think it’s rude to post an on-topic opinion that differs from the majority within a Pit thread?

You think people are being evasive, but the only possible answer is, it depends if the “on-topic opinion” is unto itself rude. And I know you want to divorce this from the other thread, but, again, you weren’t being rude because you were being an asshole in the same thread (though that contributed). You were rude because you were being an asshole. Apply that same topic any other time this comes up for you, if you want to make it generic. To avoid rudeness, one should try not to be rude. Don’t do it in the same thread, don’t do it in a different one. See how easy that is?

[Ensign_Edison]

@Stratocaster

You think people are being evasive, but the only possible answer is, it depends if the “on-topic opinion” is unto itself rude. And I know you want to divorce this from the other thread, but, again, you weren’t being rude because you were being an asshole in the same thread (though that contributed). You were rude because you were being an asshole. Apply that same topic any other time this comes up for you, if you want to make it generic. To avoid rudeness, one should try not to be rude. Don’t do it in the same thread, don’t do it in a different one. See how easy that is?

I understand that is the position you wish to argue, though it’s obviously oversimplified, because you’re saying “don’t be rude” in a forum where it’s considered normal and okay to argue with vitriol, within reason. I started this thread to get an answer to a specific question.

That question is, if you have an opinion about the OP which is bound to be unpopular, whether because it is stupid and horrible and rude, or because it is just too weird, for whatever reason you want to fill in here, I don’t care – the question is, assuming you’re going to post that opinion, should you do so within the thread or in a whole new thread. I know your view is that I should not have posted it in the first place. If that’s all you have to offer, then consider that position filed. If you can’t or won’t answer my question beyond that, there’s no need to keep repeating yourself. I understand that you think it was rude to speak up in the first place.

[Fenris]

@Ensign_Edison

No, my thought is that whether I’m an asshole is irrelevant to the question of whether we should start new Pit threads to flame people for the content of existing Pit threads that are supportive of the original poster.

Fine–I’ll play your game.

No-you don’t “have” to start a new thread to disagree with the OP. Feel free to spew shit that’s on topic (as your comment was) in the thread at hand. But be prepared to be flamed to a crisp for it.

Note: if you open a separate thread to spew shit, you’ll STILL be flamed.

You’re missing that it’s not disagreement that’s the problem, it’s that the specific disagreement you offered was fucking stupid and dickheaded. You’d have been flamed either way.

Lemme try an analogy.

Someone says “Hey, when I was in Mexico with my wife, I snuck out and visited a bunch of young prostitutes and got crabs from one of them.”

A bunch of people post “Aww, poor baby” and it turns into a MPSIMS hugfest

A NON-dickish disagreement would be “You cheated on your wife and possibly exposed her to crabs and who knows what else? Geezus fuck man!”

A DICKISH response would be “Wahhh. You got crabs? I have AIDS. And herpes. And Genital Warts! You shouldn’t whine when you’re so lucky that you only have crabs!”

If you don’t see the difference, you probably should refrain from posting in the Pit until you do…or get used to being flamed.

Keep in mind, I don’t think this post is going to do any good–you’re so busily trying to be the martyr that you’re not actually reading what’s posted. But hell, I tried.

PS–on preview, I see that you’re STILL trying to say that you weren’t jealous (which I don’t believe, but hey, keep protesting all you want). I think you’re missing the point: jealousy would at least be a normal response. To say that “My comment would stand even if everybody on earth had everything they needed,” doesn’t do anything but underscore how dickish your comment was.

[Zsofia]

I cannot BELIEVE you really need this explained to you, but I’m starting to believe you really are that thick. When you start a thread in the Pit you are taking a risk. The wolves may very well eat you. (Anybody remember that meltdown when somebody posted about their cats always being eaten by dogs and everybody told her what a fucking moron she was to let her cats get eaten by dogs?) There may be one wolf among a hundred sheep. You can pretty much call somebody’s Pit OP anything you want to. However, everybody else can tell you you’re an asshole, which is what happened. You shouldn’t go in the Pit if you aren’t prepared for people to think you’re an asshole - I’ve posted several things in there that I expected to be met with total agreement and found that not to be the case. Take it like a man. Do NOT start another thread to be an asshole in, please.

[Stratocaster]

Then apparently this is a rules question, at least in the way you’re restricting the debate. If my answer wasn’t on point for an etiquette question, I don’t know what would be. The answer is “neither.”

[Ferret_Herder]

@Ensign_Edison

That question is, if you have an opinion about the OP which is bound to be unpopular, whether because it is stupid and horrible and rude, or because it is just too weird, for whatever reason you want to fill in here, I don’t care – the question is, assuming you’re going to post that opinion, should you do so within the thread or in a whole new thread. I know your view is that I should not have posted it in the first place. If that’s all you have to offer, then consider that position filed. If you can’t or won’t answer my question beyond that, there’s no need to keep repeating yourself. I understand that you think it was rude to speak up in the first place.

It could have been avoided entirely by having an actual point to the post you made. If you just want to flame for its own sake, it would be much more efficient to just post “lol u all suk” in each Pit thread and be done with it. As pointed out by Fenris and others, saying something that actually addressed the issue instead of saying everyone’s a bunch of whiners would have been something that could have been argued and analyzed.

But no, now you have to be willfully disingenuous and ask “omg are you saying now we have to make separate Pit threads for everything?!” No. We’re saying your Pit posting needs to be a little better quality instead of jumping into a thread, insulting people randomly, and then acting all taken aback when called on the fact that you’re dumping needlessly on a thread/poster/etc.

Edit: And I’m not answering your question, just FYI. The argument you’re making is disingenuous.

[Ensign_Edison]

@What_Exit

Please do not read this as excusing your first post, I am just trying to give you my read of what your posting appears like in that thread.

I said “fuck you” to a guy everybody else was patting on the back. I know what my post appears like, and I’ve never been confused about that. I was under the impression that in the Pit, we don’t have to tiptoe around feeling for the tone of a thread before flaming in it, because when you post here you do so at your own risk with the understanding that some people may dissent and use harsh words in doing so.

Apparently, this has changed, and now I don’t understand what the new etiquette is, so I’m asking: Assuming you disagree completely with my view or how I expressed it, and think I’m a total asshole, should I be that in the original thread or start a new one?

[Ensign_Edison]

@Ferret_Herder

It could have been avoided entirely by having an actual point to the post you made. If you just want to flame for its own sake, it would be much more efficient to just post “lol u all suk” in each Pit thread and be done with it. As pointed out by Fenris and others, saying something that actually addressed the issue instead of saying everyone’s a bunch of whiners would have been something that could have been argued and analyzed.

I did do that when called on my post. I explained my position clearly. Nobody ever bothered to even address my position as far as I can tell – mostly they just hurled one-liner insults at me for kicks.

But no, now you have to be willfully disingenuous and ask “omg are you saying now we have to make separate Pit threads for everything?!” No. We’re saying your Pit posting needs to be a little better quality instead of jumping into a thread, insulting people randomly, and then acting all taken aback when called on it.

Okay, so your vote is that I can be a willfully disingenuous poor-quality poster within the original thread and do not, as jayjay and some others have said, have to start a whole new thread for it? If not, can you find time to answer that question between telling me what an asshole I am?