Thank you, ResIpsaLoquitor. Your impression is right on.
Joe_Cool, I and others have, many times, “refuted your statements.” But as you refuse to listen, refuse to sincerely debate, and instead clutch to your misguided beliefs and “the Good Book,” insisting your way is the only way, it is impossible even to agree to disagree. Especially when you spout such hatred.
And I don’t believe the moniker Joe_Angry is particularly witty. Just very, very fitting.
That’s just it, he is truly one of the most easy going, un-angry (if you will) guys ever. I don’t think he even has a worry bone in his body. This is a person that goes out of his way to help strangers.
It seems like you think that debating = agreeing with the popular vote.
You say he spouts hatred, but he doesn’t say anything hateful. Hate does not mean ‘joe_cool doesn’t agree, so he must be hateful’.
The only thing he is guilty of is standing firm on what he believes.
Your post could be turned around on you for that matter. He refutes your statement, you refuse to listen, and refuse to debate. Instead, you clutch to your misguided beliefs and what is ‘PC’, insisting your way is the only way. And if that isn’t good enough, you resort to name calling.
If what you believe is hateful, then standing firm on what you believe is hatred.
JD -
I’m glad he’s so easygoing. His behaviour on this board does not reveal this quality; in fact, it seems to show a seething, angry child. I hope, for your sake and the sake of your daughter, I am wrong. Sincerely.
As for the debating/refuting argument, I think you should take another look at the thread in question. Certainly Polycarp’s last post ought to inform you otherwise.
I have tried for the last few months to “listen” to your husband. Frankly, it’s not easy when you have to wade through the angry rhetoric and simple-minded agenda. I think perhaps if he were to drop all the pretense, he would have a better time arguing his points. Certainly some of them are valid (and valued).
Just try to keep an open mind, and I will as well.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!
Ok so that wasn’t a constructive comment but it seems some people just don’t get compassion. Funnily enough many of those same people appear to believe in god and I thought, from my non believing side of the street, that the god chap kinda thought compassion was a good thing.
fuck it JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!!!
Jersey, that may very well be, but all I know of Joe is what I see on the board.
Take me, for example-if you met me in real life, I’d be this quiet, shy, shrinking little mouse-not because I’m a coward, but because in real life, I’m very shy. That’s all.
And get off the “PC” bullshit. It has nothing to do with being “popular” or “PC” and everything to do with not coming across like a jackass.
Maybe he’s not, but he sure ACTS like one. At least around here, he does.
Yes and no. I’m all for you two standing up for your beliefs, but that’s not what’s at issue here. The issue is Joe’s lack of empathy, at least on the boards. In his posts, he comes off as a cold, judgemental man. Now that maywellbe not how he really is, but that is the impression he gives with his posts.
As much as the two of you annoy me, what redeems you is your love for each other and Joe’s acceptance and love for your daughter. Where there is love, there has to be goodness.
Oh, beautiful irony. The poster who makes clever jokes with my username and calls me names in lieu of rebutting my statements, says that I come across as a child. That’s rich.
So you admit that I make valid points, but you obtusely refuse to answer the content of my posts, preferring to respond with personal attacks? That’s even better. And what pretense is it that offends you? The pretense of holding opinions that the masses don’t like? The pretense of believing in the deity of Jesus? The pretense of standing firm in my beliefs? Which is it?
gobear: I ask you what I asked Polycarp in the other thread - What exactly do you expect from me in the way of compassion? And why aren’t you jumping on everybody else over their lack of compassion for the family that lost its only child?
Anyway, I’m sincerely sorry the guy is dead, but my tears don’t flow for people I have never heard of and have no connection with. Do you weep over the obits and the news every day? If not, why do you expect more from me?
Except that some people have funny definitions of “love.”
Esprix
Sorry, that was in reference to gobear’s post:
Esprix
I’d liek you to acknowledge the bit of Andygirl’s post that Daryl’s parent’s took his coming out badly. I’d like you to acknowledge that suicidal feelings are not selfishness but desperation and fear. Some people are tempted by self-destruction not to hurt others, but to spare others.
I want you to at least acknowledge that other people feal, and fear, and need.
Maybe they are special fundamentalists who loved their kid, but if they are like other fundies I’ve known, I’m sure they rejected Daryl and told him God loathes homosexuals. You pretend this never happens, but is is extremely common. Certainly Andygirl’s post implied that they were cruel to Daryl when he came out to them.
I don’t expect you to weep because I’m not weeping either. The difference between you and me is that I can see myself in his postiton and feel for someone who felt so alone and unloved that he felt he had no other option but to destroy himslef.
Perhaps quit making comments about how people who are depressed and suicidal are “selfish” and “whiny” and stop calling them “cowards.”
Because if that’s what you think, it shows you don’t know jackshit about depression.
This board is about fighting ignorance.
Joe Cool does so often come across to many of us as cold and judgmental. If he really isn’t that at all, I would think that he might want to consider working on better communication. That way, people wouldn’t be as likely to react to his words with anger and pain.
If any of you have ever seen someone in an all-pervasive state of agonizing pain, then maybe you can better understand why people would choose to end their lives. I have had physical pain that made me wish for the release of death. But the mental anguish I endured was much worse. I was a victim (although I realize that it is not PC to admit that) and I am also a survivor.
Joe Cool, a person with clinical depression can no more will themselves out of it than Michael J. Fox can will himself to stop shaking. Parkinson’s Disease and clinical depression are related. If a person with Parkinson’s asked for understanding, would you say that he was wanting a pity party? If a person’s gut is rotting with cancer and he expresses that he is in pain, would you kick him to the curb, roll your eyes and mutter “victimization”?
ResIpsaLoquitor, not everyone’s experience with suicidal issues have the same source or level of pain. But I do so agree with what you said about feeling both anger and compassion. The anger seems to be natural and arises from our own selfishness. Sometimes compassion comes with more education and humility.
It’s true I am invisible! 
My two cents.
Many years ago I met an extrodinary young punk rocker I knew only as X. This guy was intelligent, he was funny, he was liked by absolutely everybody (except the skinheads…He was black).
X left home at about 16. He never knew his father, his mother abused him and his sister horribly, and he swore he would kill her if he ever saw her again. He was raised by his grandparents, but his grandfather, the only person in the whole world he cared anything about drank himself to death. His grandmother was a racist, and hated his white friends, so one day he just didnt go home.
He lived from house to house…friends putting him up, and met and fell in love with a white girl whos parents wouldnt let her have anything to do with him. He finally came to stay with me day and we became great friends. X became more and more depressed, although he didnt let me know it(I read through his poetry later). Occasionally he would seem down, but we do, especially in his sort of situation. I guess I didnt realize how bad it was. One night, while I was at a poetry reading, he finally broke up with his girlfriend. He had come to the conclusion that there was no hope for them. He had no car, no way to go see her, even if her parents would let her, without relying on me and his other friends(she lived quite a ways away). He had walked to every place within walking distance of our apartment trying to find a job, but no one would hire a 17 year old highschool dropout in a neighborhood full of them.
I came home that night and found him lying in a pool of goo that used to be his brains choking on his own blood. he was still breathing, but well…He was gone.
I read his blood stained suicide note…I still have a copy of it somewhere.
THe first part started out as kind of a journal thing he kept…
He was talking about how bad he hurt, but he knew it would pass and he would get through it.
A little farther down the page he wrote somehting to the effect of how knew he had no future. He would never have a job, and always just be a burden to himself. He wrote to us to try and see it was best this way…He wouldnt be a burden on anybody else anymore.
Towards the end of the note that was all he seemed concerend with, how much of a burden he was be putting on us all just by existing…
Wether he had an oranice depression, or it was his situation, or a little of both…In his mind, he had no future(he probably didnt really)…He would never be anything but a liability.
And he was in pain…So much that he couldnt see straight.
Selfish…maybe…A little…But I still pitty him, and really believe if he had know had badly it would hurt us all he never would have done it…but when you are in pain and lose all hope, you dont think clearly.
BTW, X was a Christian. We talked about it often…but sometimes we all lose hope.
I have acknowledged it, and I don’t believe it to be a reliable report. Nothing against andygirl, only that I don’t trust the chain. From the very beginning, if suicidal depression is as black a hole as you all say, then I have even less reason to believe even Daryl’s own report of what happened. Obviously he had lost his grip on reality:
There’s more, but I got tired of searching. Now, if these reports are to be believed (I assume they are?), then Daryl was not even a reliable source for his own story, let alone andygirl’s report of the friend’s report of Dary’ls report of the parents’ reaction.
False dichotomy. Regardless of whether it’s MOTIVATED by selfishness, or their actions are MEANT to be selfish, the result is the very definition of selfishness: it’s an action taken without proper consideration of its effect on, or the well-being of others. A suicide can be borne out of desperation and fear and a desire to make things easier for others, but that is obviously a distortion of reality, as I quoted above.
Absolutely, and unashamedly.
Wow, broad generalization there. All fundies hate and reject their children, just like all homosexuals are perverts and potential child molesters, right?
It certainly did.
It’s true that I can’t empathize. That doesn’t mean I rejoiced in his death, as you seem to believe.
This, from Joe_Cool way back at the beginning of this thread
This explains a lot. Joe_Cool truly has no concept of what despair is, so it is really no surprise he is unable to express empathy or to understand what might drive someone to suicide. Believe me, there is no ‘god’ carrying you anywhere when your neurotransmitters run amuck and you are in the depths of severe depression.
That makes about as much sense as my telling you that there is no auliya. The person using that name doesn’t exist, and is simply an abstraction on the internet. In other words, telling me that God doesn’t exist and doesn’t help me is utterly ridiculous.