actually change that to ‘most people’ because on this board you have a lot more open minded people than IRL.
Oh, His4ever has been told repeatedly that if she doesn’t like the reaction she gets when she pops into threads about sexuality, she should stay out. But she doesn’t.
And when someone else pops up with the kinds of things she would say, she has to come in and kiss arse.
I think they get off on it. Not sexually, but they get a weird, religious high off of it.
That’s what prompted me to start the thread about how modern day Christians in the US are not “persecuted”, as they seem to think.
The legalistic approach has always thrown me. Wasn’t that what Jesus preached AGAINST when he talked about Letter of the Law vs. Spirit? If they had been alive in his time, they would have been the Pharisees-and would have though of Jesus as the worst kind of heretic.
Name one.
IzzyR: I do better than that, I’ll name two:
lel
vanilla
I think Copaesthetic summed it up pretty well.
I wasnt going to butt my big fat nose into this mess but I had followed the "other" threads and have been a fan from afar of this whole mess for quite some time. It seems like **Joe Cool** is attempting to wind this whole mess down and defuse further conflict with this (possibly poorly formatted) apology. I take it for its face value until time proves otherwise.
Those who object to the sincerety of his actions may want to give him the benefit of the doubt. For now anyway.
After all, why would Joe lay out an apology that wasn`t sincere, only to open himself up to more attacks? I think he means it.
You know, I was once described by someone I considered a friend as “prejudiced,” because I brought up some facts in a discussion that they didn’t agree with. My facts were presented reasonably, with no vitriol. I took offense to the label, and I called her out on it. I pointed out examples that demonstrated I was not prejudiced on the issue, and explained how deeply I was offended by her use of the label “prejudiced.”
She later apologized for using that term… or at least, I think she tried to. Her apology was basically along the lines of “I’m sorry that my use of that word hurt your feelings. However, I still believe in the substance of what I said. It was an honest observation, but poorly phrased.”
The first sentence (a summation of what she really said, but an accurate one) represents what I call a “non-apology apology,” in which the person is trying to mollify the hurt feelings of someone else, but without really meaning what they say. The second and third sentences (again, summarized) are what really show the apology to be disingenuous, as they go right back to the behavior that caused the hurt feelings in the first place. This is the essence of a non-apology apology. It means nothing.
Here’s the thing. If my friend had really wanted to apologize, if she really wanted to show how much she regretted what she said, she just would have said “I’m sorry about what I said. I know that it was hurtful to you. I’ll try to do better in the future. Still friends?” And left it at that… but no, first she apologizes for how I felt (a meaningless exercise), then carries on to even negate that slight concession by stating that her beliefs about me had not changed.
That’s almost what Joe_Cool has done here. To give him a little credit, he did apologize for making a very rude remark in the Pit thread. That much seemed to be genuine. The rest of the “apology” is a long exercise in backpedaling, saying that he still meant what he said, even if he didn’t mean how he said it. Like my friend’s apology… this is meaningless.
Joe_Cool, if you really want to apologize, to Eve or whoever, then just say it. Say you’re sorry, and mean it, and most importantly, when apologizing shut the fuck up about your own beliefs. When you spout off more about yourself than the person you’re apologizing to, it just sounds false.
And by the way, your wife should do the same. “Not that I’m holding my breath…”
Izzy, I was thinking particularly of Scotticher and dreamer. I think there are many others who aren’t particularly vocal. There are also several very conservative Mormons and Roman Catholics, although these two groups aren’t usually what comes to mind when someone says “conservative Christian”.
homebrew & masonite,
There are major substantive differences between the beliefs of the posters you named and those of JC & JD with regards to biblical inerrancy and homosexuality, and probably other matters as well. The difference between the way these posters are treated arises from these differences in belief.
There is no way, on this board, to express the views that JC & JD believe in that will not provoke the reaction that they have provoked.
If you want to modify your claim to merely say that you can call yourself a conservative Christian and not get attacked, I agree. But there are a variety of beliefs that fall under the conservative Christian label. But if you actually have the same beliefs as JC & JD you will be crucified, unless you stay in the closet. Their sin is (primarily) that they don’t.
Thank you, masonite. I try.
However, I owe Jersey and Joe an apology, too. Jersey was correct when she said I should have emailed her with my reproofs, and I didn’t. No excuses here, I was frustrated and I shot off my mouth.
Thank you for your apology, Joe. I hope you accept mine, too.
Nitpicky aside follows.
IzzyR, you may want to peruse the following thread on Christian dopers. While not all that identify as Christian are conservative also, there’s some in that thread who identify as conservative Christians.
Oh, Homebrew? I’m probably closer to a theist with agnostic leanings than a Christian anymore (probably as of perhaps January or February, it’s a recent development, and it could always change), but thanks for remembering!
Ending nitpicky aside…ah, everything’s already been said.
So JerseyDiamond saying in GD that she and her husband were whispering and giggling at someone behind their beer glasses, and Joe_Cool saying that it’s not Eve’s fault if she looks like a man, she must have had crappy cosmetic surgery - that doesn’t deserve a pitting? Yes by all means we should be nice to those people.
The fact that Joe_Cool is going to insult someone who calls his wife a cunt is understandable. The fact that Joe_Cool goes out of way to make yet another nasty crack at someone (Eve) who has not attacked him shows that he’s a nasty person deep down inside. If a Pit thread makes him reveal his unpleasant personality how is that anyone’s fault but his?
I’ll add some more:
dreamer
Duck Duck Goose
Lissla Lissar
Lauralee
Scottchier
Oh for crying out loud. If you come out and say that gays are an abomination and going to hell, why wouldn’t you be pitted?
If I went to a Christian fundamentalist board and said “Muslims and Jews are going to heaven too” you can bet that the other posters will jump on your case. That’s just common sense.
Izzy: I disagree; I don’t think the issue is one of belief at all, but rather presentation and personality.
But I don’t want to discuss it further here, not least because I can’t know what anyone actually believes or thinks. The argument that I’m making, roughly, is: “Conservative Christian” == “Biblical inerrantist” == lots of folks here, not just the ones who get pitted a lot.
If you want to continue the discussion privately, feel free to email me.
I’m not sure what your point is here. Please see my previous post.
Guinastasia: ditto.
ZiggyB: I’m not going to argue that now. I was addressing the point made by masonite.
masonite: OK, we’ll have to disagree. I shall shortly be offline until Monday, anyway.
I cannot state with any certainty what anyone else specifically believes, but it appears that there was a peaceful and well-treated difference of belief on the Bible and homosexuality here.
Oh yes, my point was that I didn’t preview properly.
I said it in the pit thread and I’ll say it again: JD did not seem to be intentionally cruel in the GD thread. It would have been much better if she had apologized as soon as she realized that Eve was offended, but it was not totally unreasonable for her to make the remark, in the context of the whole discussion. And it can be tough to apologize when everyone around is calling for your blood.
Tricky analogy. This message board (as far as I can tell) was not set up and is not primarily concerned with the lives of gays. It is primarily concerned with the dispelling of bullshit. In contrast, a Christian fundamentalist board has a much more narrow scope.
ZiggyB said, “The fact that Joe_Cool is going to insult someone who calls his wife a cunt is understandable. The fact that Joe_Cool goes out of way to make yet another nasty crack at someone (Eve) who has not attacked him shows that he’s a nasty person deep down inside.”
As I said before, I didn’t think the “c” word would have nearly the same effect on JD as her statement had on Eve. JC seems to be saying that it harmed her (or him) terribly. It was not my goal to “hurt” anyone, or to stoop to their level…I was aiming for more of a sting. If both insults were targeted at me, believe me…Eve’s would have been infinitely more painful than mine. All I can say is, “My bad.”