I will say again that I’m not threatened by extending small courtesies to women generally or me personally. Nor, do I expect men to hold open doors for me. When they do such things for me, I’m pleasantly surprised. I also get a kick out of holding a door open for a man, and I love hearing his surprised and pleased “Thank you” when I do. 
emarkp said:
“As an aside, I think it’s interesting–my opinion is that extra-polite behavior of men towards women is something I see as being just as important to men (if not more so!) as to women. I don’t know whether that’s relevant to the discussion or not.”
Actually, as I’ve read this thread, I’ve been wondering if the defensive? responses from the men (e.g. Scylla, Mr. White, emarkp, Acid Kid . . . ) arguing that it’s men’s duty to rever women and treat them with respect in the form of extending specific little courtesies upon them do not reflect a fear of change. They are used to thinking of women in one light, but now women are saying that they must view females in another light, and THIS is what is confusing/scary because they don’t know which perspective is valid. For each individual woman the perspective most likely may be different. Whereas before, there was just the simple perspective of being extra polite to women.
I assume that most likely the men and women in this thread were taught by their mothers and fathers and the socio-economic and political dynamics of whatever culture informed them to be polite to women because that is a significant part of what defines manhood AND a higher level of class. Now in the aftermath of the women’s liberation movement when women and some men are questioning gender roles ascribed and maintained by a patriarchal system and women are voicing perspectives that in part agree with traditional roles and yet also depart from traditional roles, it’s just confusing to know what the right thing is to do. Is that what’s at the heart of the male responses that the OP is overreacting? Are we ladies confusing you again? 
Asmodean said:
"celestina, my point was that nothing comes free. If the guys are showing respect in one area that must mean that they show disrespect in another area. You can’t have both.
As for how men are it goes back to men have to be stereotypically masculine, or they are not men. And if they aren’t men they are less(or feminine).
Fascinating. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around the concept that respect in one area constitutes disrespect in another. So basically you’re saying that women should be suspicious of any polite actions extended from men solely to women because they have ulterior motives (e.g. They hold the door open for ladies not because it’s polite but because it boosts their self-image as the stronger, better sex, thereby reinforcing the idea consciously or unconsciously that women are beneath them). I wonder if the true disrespect is done to men because they hurt themselves more with this if they base their self-esteem on artificial criteria dependent on elements outside their control (women) buying into those criteria. In essence they’ve placed the ultimate power to define themselves as individuals outside of themselves and in the hands of a patriarchal society that expects them to conform. Hmmm. Why is it that men are threatened by being called feminine, whatever that may be? What is masculine exactly; and what is feminine exactly besides two socio-political constructs? If men are so powerful, then why should it matter what they are called and by whom?
Oh, and AcidKid, [celestina strapping on low-heeled sandals and readying her paddle] is Hammuda Abdul-Ati, the author of “The Status of Woman in Islam” a woman or a man? I’m curious about the link you posted. I’m not disrespecting Islam–Believe me, I’m not an expert on the intricacies of Islam or any other religion–but I question this tract that views all women in the same manner, as needing to stay within the narrow confines of the role of wife and mother. It does not allow women the freedom to be individuals. In particular I question this quotation: “The rights of woman of modern times were not granted voluntarily or out of kindness to the female. Modern woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent or Divine teachings.” So women basically are not happy with their struggle to gain socio-economic and political parity with men because they rushed it and forced men to accept them on a level more equal to men before it was ordained by some divine entity? Who’s supposed to give the mutual consent? How do we know that women’s forcing their way isn’t what this divine entity ordained? How does this author know that Muslim women and men are happier than non-Muslim women and men, particularly since s/he does not provide any qualitative or quantitative evidence to demonstrate that this is so? I guess I’ve said all of this to say that I find INDIVIDUAL Muslim and non-Muslim female voices SUSPICIOUSLY ABSENT in the link you provided.
