Battlestar Galactica 3.20 - "Crossroads (part two)" - spoilers

Tigh has memories of 40 years and two wars in Colonial service, so they’ve been around for at least 40 years, and probably longer. I don’t have a problem with that. It brings up interesting questions about what Tigh now remembers. He’s got real-life experience going back 40 years at least, but what memories does he have before that? Real or manufactured? Was he ever a little kid?

Also, Tyrol, Anders & Tori are all under 40 years old. Plus Tyrol remembers his childhood and his father the priest. What’s up with that, if the first five were created over 40 years ago?

They have fake memories.

Moore clears up some of these questions. Yep, they’re 4 of the other 5 Cylons, but of a different type. How that plays out, and how “All Along the Watchtower” fits in, will be addressed in a 22-episode Season 4. And Katee Sackhoff is signed for the whole season. That may well be the end of the arc, and the series, though. He did admit just winging much of the storyline, but we knew that already.

But SciFi is throwing us a bone before then. There’s 2 “prequel” eps, set on Pegasus under Kane, to be aired this fall.
Just as long as it doesn’t turn out that Jimi is the Cylon God and WE’RE the Cylons.

Let me tell you about my mother.

Would you expect Tyrol’s fake memories to be kinda spotty, though? He got pretty frustrated in the temple because he couldn’t remember the details of what his father had said about the Eye of Jupiter. If his memories are fake, I wouldn’t think any of them would have that elusive, tip-of-the-tongue quality.

Maybe these four are actually the original PopTarts. Or Tigh is the last of the first generation, and the others belong to the next generation. Then they could have actually been born, grew up and aged, and their memories are genuine.

If the clone models were never informed about the Final Five’s actual origins, then of course Hera is a big deal - to them. But it could be that Hera is special only in the sense that she was born to a Cylon clone, not a human or a Cylon born as an infant.

Remember when Tyrol suspected he might be a Cylon and Brother Cavil reassured him he wasn’t? Then later, when D’Anna was ready to spill her guts about the final five Cavil pulled the plug on her?

I wonder if Cavil could be the oldest of the newer generation of Cylons, and know a bit more about the first five and their plans than we think?

In the final zoom-out, you had the two Vipers, then the fleet, then the Cylons. Why weren’t the vipers heading in the direction of the Cylons?

Also, it looks like the part of the galaxy with the fleet and the part with Earth are really close together, just flipped. Weird.

Here’s my theory. I haven’t read any spoilers or listened to any podcasts since the early part of the season, but I think someone in an earlier thread mentioned RDM saying that both Cylon and Human religions will turn out to be true. If I turn out to be right I hope someone will remind me of it in January!

I believe the Final Five Cylons are the Lords of Kobol. I suspect that the Final Five were created by humans on Earth in our future. The FF escaped Earth, and took a small human population with them to Kobol, whence humanity spread to the Twelve Colonies. The FF/LoK disappeared, but they had manipulated their human population in such a way that they could predict with some high degree of accuracy the future of the human civilization that would emerge. They somehow planted the seeds that would cause humans to recreate Cylons, just as humans had done before on Earth.

Are Anders, et al. the FF? I’m not sure. I suspect that the FF/LoK also arranged that through some means, (genetic markers?) they would eventually emerge within the human population. Or else, they’ve been influencing and infiltrating human society since the humans left Kobol, and planted Anders et al before the First Cylon War.

I definitely don’t think they are duplicates of humans–there’s been no hint of that whatsoever. I do think that Kara is alive, but that she really died. I suspect the LoK somehow recreated her. Perhaps they are the ones who gave the Penultimate Seven their brain-downloading technology. I wonder if the FF (or non-renegade copies of them) live on Earth with (or without!) our descendants.

PS–I haven’t been posting to these threads this season, because I hate reading other people bitching about the show, and the show really did suck for most of this season. I couldn’t post anything nice, so I didn’t post anything at all. But I thought this episode rocked.

PPS–I don’t think I ever posted it, since I didn’t really think it was a possibility, but I have had a harebrained idea that we might be the descendants of the Cylons. Now seems like the right time to go on record with it!

Because Apollo had been heading in the direction of the Cylons, with the rest of the Vipers, but he separated from them to check out the bogey – who turned out to be Starbuck, playing hide-n’-seek in the Ionian Nebula, 'cause it’s Starbuck and that’s how she is.

Here’s my take on the Cylons thing.

The Cylons advanced from toasters to infiltration-ready meatbags within 40 years. That’s a bit much to swallow, isn’t it? It’s like going from steam engines to commercial nuclear power in 40 years. It’s possible, I suppose, but highly unlikely.

We don’t know what the Cylons were doing in those 40 years. They could have been doing anything. It’s possible that they were disciplined and insightful enough to steer their understanding of genetics and biology and whatnot in order to mass-produce meatbags in less than half a century. If this were the case, however, why only 12 models, and where is the detrius of 40 years of research? And why spend 40 years developing infiltration tools when a basestar full of nukes is so much more effective?

We do know that the Cylons are highly advanced in terms of spaceflight. It’s much easier for me to accept that the Cylons spent much of the 40 years perfecting their FTL drives, since travel capability has direct military and industrial benefits.

We also know that the Cylons knew where Kobol was. They were there, waiting for the Colonials. The Cylons at least knew that the Colonials were headed in that direction. (I bet that Kobol was relatively abandoned, but still being watched by the Cylons, when Boomer and Crashdown tripped over it.)

We also know that the number 12 is highly significant to Colonial religion, a faith scoffed at by the Cylons. If it weren’t for the 12 Cylon models, there would be no significance to the Cylons of the number 12.

Lastly, the Cylon meatbag models are so close in design to normal Colonial bodies as to be indistinguishable. This suggests that, at the gross and cellular levels, most of the weird stuff we see in Cylons are also present (though latent) in Colonial humans.

My theory is this: the Cylons discovered Kobol some time ago, perhaps in the past 40 years, maybe even before then. Having discovered a planet ripe for the expansion of their enemies, the Cylons made a priority of checking it out, and in the process came across technology left behind by the Lords of Kobol. Most of the really advanced stuff that Cylons have - cloning, designer pets, near-instantaneous long range FTL communications, hive mind-style telepathy - is merely copied from stuff that the Lords of Kobol abandoned on or near the planet after the the Blaze.

My hunch is that, in the dim dark past, the Lords of Kobol established a society where sexual reproduction was eventually replaced by mechanical duplication of themselves. (Parallels of the Colonials developing the Cylons, I suppose.) After time, 12 of the “genetically” strongest clone lines had established authority over the others, and called themselves gods. Then, Kobol society suffered a schism when someone figured out sexual reproduction all over again - there was sudden population pressure, and increased diversity, and shifting centers of power, and a jealous god, and conflict, and a Blaze, and everyone left Kobol in a big galleon.

Which leave the Colonials as the descendents of the same genetic material that makes up the Cylon meatbags. The one god whom the Cylons worship is likely the jealous god of Kobol, the one who struggled to maintain a rigid and mechanical society in the face of surprising diversity.

It’s also my hunch that the Cylons are not at all telepathic, but the remaining Lords of Kobol are, by benefit of their technology. Batlar’s inner Six is neither imagined nor Cylon, but rather the projection of a Kobolian being - a.k.a. a “being of light” - who thinks (or pretends) she’s a Cylon. Ditto for Caprica Six’s inner Baltar, Starbuck’s inner Leoben, and who knows, maybe the snakes in Roslyn’s visions as well as the Admiral’s dead wife.

Another hunch: the Cylons we find in the end of the season’s last episode are not Cylons, neither are the four Bob Dylan fans on the Galactica, but rather more Kobolians.

Lastly, Starbuck was killed when her Viper imploded on the gas giant, but her inner Leoben was instrumental in “beaming” her conciousness, a la Cylon resurrection, into another body. This part was essential in molding her psyche for some unknown goal, since it’s easier to change someone’s mind when you’re holding it on a hard drive.

I think that Ron has managed to pull a George Lucas here, in regards to the Cylons. At first, the Jedi were to be technological knights, and the Sith were some alien froglike race. As Lucas fleshed out his backstory, the Jedi and the Sith became more and more like each other, until finally they differed only in point of view. Going further, he borrowed from Arthur C. Clarke and explained the magic of the Force as merely sufficiently advanced technology. I think that we’re going to discover that the only real differences between the Colonials and the Cylons (at least the meatbags) lie in their points of view, and that the seemingly mystical features of the Cylons and the Lords of Kobol can be dismissed as sufficiently advanced technology.

Of course, one enormous assumption I’m making is that Ron had something planned out before he started filming. I’m not completely convinced he did, not yet.

The zoom out at the end of the ep kinda’ reminded me of Scorpius’s rant in the Season 4 Farscape episode when he has John Crichton onboard his Command Carrier and Scorpy has discovered that Earth is reachable in “60 years at highest speed”…

Just went and had yet another look at that last shot, pulling back from the Vipers, and then in to show Earth. Gotta admit, in combination with that kinda spooky cover of “All Along the Watchtower”, it’s probably one of the coolest single shots I’ve seen on tv.

I’ll just note that the fifth cylon can’t be Roslyn since she was one of the three women in the dream (with Athena and Caprica) protecting the baby. It was in that same dream that the five white figures were standing on the balcony looking down.

Ehh…maybe. However, I think that Roslyn and Adama are both safe. The reason being that both their seconds are Cylons. So, there’s no need to have both a person of power and their closest adviser both as Cylons.

The real question is this - was there anything subtle in the last two or three episodes with someone starting to look a little ragged?

-Joe

The real question is what can be read into the fact that she puked when the music started?
Ragged or not, I would not throw her out of bed unless it was onto the floor for more room…

My often voiced fear is that there will be no logic or canon to charcters being Cylon; Moore will do it so that we will say, as he believes we do from the podcasts, “Ohmigod! (S)he’s a CYLON!” :slight_smile: