Totally. And that’s why I have so little faith in conservatives today. Whatever happened to policing your own damn party? Keeping it in line with the values with which it was founded? Remember when people used to care about things like that? Never before in history have Americans lock-stepped with a politician or a political party the way the Pubs are now. Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would spit on you people.
Maybe if thinking conservatives don’t want to be labeled Bushbots they should take a hard look at their party and its shining son, and figure out if they really want the Republican Party to take a radical shift toward interventionist foreign policy, higher taxes, and a larger budget–all things that the Pubs are supposed to be diametrically opposed to. Because party loyalty in the face of all outside data is not American. If you’re just supporting Republicans because that’s what you’ve always done, try taking a look at what they’re standing for today. Don’t just pull the lever. Research the candidate. Learn.
Then again, if you really are buying what Dubya’s selling and view this war optimistically, what kind of happy pills are you taking and where can I buy some?
Your argument that those of us who aren’t American have no right to input regarding the running of your country may have some credence, IF America were only minding their own business.
But the fact remains that increasingly over the years, America has run roughshod over the rights of other countries to run their own internal affairs, so until that changes, suck it up dumbfuck.
Dumbfuck I may be, but I get to vote (not that it counted this time) and you don’t. You don’t live here, you don’t pay taxes, your opinion doesn’t count.
I look at the OP, the title of this thread, and, some of the posts within, and I think my earlier thesis concerning aggressive insults without substance being proof of stupidity and cowardice is looking pretty good.
Concerning the “Bush is a lunkhead” for saying “Bring it on” when it is now being used against our troops… I have to agree. It seems like a very ill-advised thing to say. It goes to prove that there is no such thing as free speech. You pay for everything you say. I think Bush deserves some scorn heaped on him for this.
If you agree with this so far, there is an unfortunate consequence. For a long time the most extreme criticism of the war, and Bush has been justified under “free speech.” Clearly that speech had, and continues to have consequences for our troops as well. You can’t have it both ways.
This comment is really xenophobic. America’s actions affect the rest of the world in a way that, say, Italy’s doesn’t. There isn’t a corner of the world that isn’t touched by our government. So I think foreigners have every right to talk about our government–it affects them, even if only indirectly in some cases.
And heaven knows, if Sam Stone can run around these boards focusing so passionately on US political issues that many other posters don’t even realize he isn’t American, other non-Americans should be able to do the same.
Scylla:For a long time the most extreme criticism of the war, and Bush has been justified under “free speech.” Clearly that speech had, and continues to have consequences for our troops as well.
Well, you’re definitely wrong about the “clearly” part, for starters. Exactly what “consequences for our troops” are you claiming have been produced by anti-war and anti-Bush criticism, and what are your grounds for claiming it?
Of course, they can have an opinion, and they can voice their opinion, but they do not vote, they do not have representation in Congress, they don’t pay taxes, therefore their opinions don’t matter. It’s be like me bitching about Australia’s governmen–I’ve not been there, don’t know the people or the domestic issues, but I expect the Australians to value my opinions over their own and for their government to heed what I say.
This is exactly why I haven’t bother to explain, yet again, what good I think is being accomplished in Iraq. It accomplishes nothing but to provide fodder for more argument. Those who are asking what good is being accomplished in Iraq aren’t really interested in knowing…they just want to attack whatever is said.
Well, first of all I’d like to thank you for the positive things you’ve said regarding those of us on the other side of this issue. Secondly, though, I have to quibble with your analysis of my position here. I don’t necessarily believe that in order to be a good American one has to support the president, and I don’t necessarily view criticism of the government to be non-patriotic. If you’ll pardon my saying so, it seems that you are thinking in much the same way as those who accuse me of mindlessly swallowing “Bushco propaganda.” It seems to be difficult for those on the other side to believe that one could agree with the administration’s stances on these issues without having been “conned” into it. Your post seems to indicate that you believe I advocate mindless loyalty to the party, rather than being cognizant of the fact that perhaps the administration is following a course of action that is in line with what I belive to be correct to begin with. In other words, I’m not following the Bush party line and I haven’t swallowed any “Bushco propaganda”; I’m simply in tune philosophically with the administration’s stances on many of these issues.
That’s an avoidance technique. Unless you are taking the stance that you are a Supreme Being, and therefore above the need for explanation to mere mortals.
You should be able to explain why you feel so wholeheartedly that your principles (stances) are worthy of embracing. If not, how did you justify them to yourself?
In view of what you said in your next post, answering gobear, I would like to make a request. not to be acted on until both your response and that of one of the GD moderators has been posted to the affirmative in this thread.
That request would be for a GD thread that would calmly analyze the benefits and liabilities of the present situation there, perhaps with Tamerlane or another expert on the area commenting on the ethnopolitical realities we should be aware of regarding Iraq in a manner that is not (or minimally) judgmental of American policies. The request would be for you to start an OP outlining what good you think is being done there. The reason for the moderator request is that, as I request it, courtesy would be mandated in that thread – absolutely no hot tempers or accusations of toeing a party line (pro or anti Bush) allowed.
I frankly think that we’re up to our ass in alligators, and are making no progress toward draining the swamp. You clearly feel otherwise to some degree, based on that statement. I’d like opportunity to quietly review your arguments, question them politely, and perhaps build some common ground on this most volatile of subjects.
I realize I’m asking a lot of the moderators in suggesting a thread of this sort, and I would not be surprised to hear a “no, we cannot enforce that rule for that thread” from one of them. But I for one welcome… No, I for one would like to hear your perspective on the positives of the Iraq situation and why you hold that view.
I’m not asking for your opinions on the war. THis is the second time I have re-iterated my request to you. I’m asking you to detail for me, the differences between your optimism and our “pessimism”.
No, I want to see evidence of a situation that you see as rosy and I see gloom and doom. After all, if the difference was mere perspective, it should be simple to show me where you and yours cheered whilst me and mine booed. If not evidence, then at least a hypothetical? Something? You’re letting me down…
Oh, don’t you worry, Sam, surely you know by now that they have a soothing explanation for everything – otherwise known as spinning like tops. Problem lies when people start to consume their own fabrications. Something this particular Administration are experts at.
For instance, no doubt many of you remember the numerous threads – both pre and post invasion – in which many of us were warning about the potential blowback of this 21st century Crusade. No doubt you also remember the spin put forth by the Bushbots at the time: “Iraq’s the flypaper” “We’d rather fight them there than here” etc. etc.
I read the above quote and can’t help but notice what a brave, brave man, Scylla is. Cheering others to their deaths from behind the comfort of his own keyboard.
Tell you what, why don’t you go join Overcompensators Anonymous and shove your testosterone-laden Internet persona up your rectum.
No, I for one would like to hear your perspective on the positives of the Iraq situation and why you hold that view.