Innit mate - used to be the bane of my life.
Try Clearasil Facewash twice a day - worked for me (and do try to avoid picking 'em if you possibly can, they’ll only get sore).
– Quirm
Okay, so maybe chilvary wasn’t the correct term. Maybe kindness was. Helpfulness. And Bagkitty, what’s your problem? So I was wearing a skirt and heels, no, it doesn’t mean i’m mechanically inept, but it does mean that maybe I would have appreciated some help rather than come back into the office with a layer of grease on me. Which I did. I was probably not clear in my OP, I didn’t mean it as an “oh, i’m a woman i’m weak I need help from a manly man” thing, I meant it as an “I’m a human that looks as if I could use help from another human, so why won’t anyone offer?” And for all of the males that have complained about being lectured or glared at from women you have offered to help, on behalf of women, I apologize. I’m not one of those women. I smile and say thank you when doors are held open for me. When my boyfriend opens the car door I think it is nice, I don’t bitch about it. Not all women fly off the handle when a man offers to help them. Actually, no women I know do. I’m sorry that happened to all of you. Trust me, it wouldn’t happen if you were to offer me help.
Well, if I were one of the guys in that situation, there are two reasons I would be sitting there instead of helping you.
-
I’m waiting for you to ask for help, at which point it would be gladly provided. Unsolicitated aid is rude, IMO.
-
I don’t know jack about cars. I don’t even drive. Since you actually own and operate a car, odds are you know more about oil changes than I do. Offering to help when I lack the basic skills to help is rude and stupid.
Then you are why I still do help when a situation like that happens (which isn’t very often). I also understand that doing even minor automotive work in a skirt and heels would not be easy. Not from experience mind you, but from observation (look at how mechanics dress).
Where has kindness gone? It has mysteriously disppeared, but those guys who lustfully gawk instead of help, and those women who bark at the helpful guy would be prime suspects in my investigation. The only reason that nice guys finish last is because the losers finish first, and the judges usually have a backwards bias.
On a final note, it’s sexist to say women are better than men, or capable of more (or vice versa). Sure, women can be mothers, but they can’t be fathers. A woman can be pregnant, but she can never be in a situation where she can help her pregnant wife (maybe now, though). When a woman gives birth she is a mother, but our screwed up culture allows men to just walk away. To me this is an opportunity for a man to do the right thing. Women (in most cases) have to be mothers, but a man with an ounce of integrity suddenly shines because he’s being compared to all the rotten men out there. What did he do to earn this title? Basically nothing, just be a decent person. It gets applause. This is why I still help people. If I got the point, lezlers is pointing out how a decent person should be recognized, not for being a superhero, but for stepping forward when everyone else is too intimidated or lazy. It’s not that helping is such a grand thing, but not helping is so pathetic, that it makes helping seem grand.
Ack, someone will probably still flame me. I hope this makes sense.
I think chivalry was the correct term…I think it’s one of the nicest qualities of a man. I like it when men open doors for me and that’s one of the first things I taught my nephews to do. I hope they never encounter these women who would make them feel bad for doing something nice. As a lesbian, I think it’s funny that a lot of straight women (the one’s I know) get offended by these simple acts of kindness. I think they should just let the guy open the door and get on with it.
Yeah, equality of the sexes comes with some galling drawbacks, doesn’t it lezlers?
Actually I changed a tire for my (female) boss once. She asked me to. I was the only one she would ask (only guy that 1: she outranked and that 2: was nice enough to do it). Sadly, she had no idea how to change a tire.
I agree that asking for help is the best way to get it. For me, it’s also cool if the request for help is neutral, not all girly and posed like there’s something in it for me (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) if I say yes.
In general, do I do the heavy lifting for women at the office? No. Nothing we have is that heavy anyway, but it’s sexist to think men should automatically be the beasts of burden. And don’ t let me hear you talk about your great workout at the gym and then ask me to use my brute strength. You’re just begging to get called on that.
Of course I’m sure the guys standing around watching you with the car were just looking for a free show. Skirt and heels, leaning over the engine compartment…but I digress.
This could actually lead to a cool GD thread, unless it’s been done to death.
::Chivalrously walks over to lezlers::
Hey, what’s happenin’? Short on oil? My old Pontiac used to drink the stuff.
Oil cap stuck? You got any newspapers or old paper bags in the back seat or trunk? What I always do, I wrap the thing in paper, enough to keep the oil from dripping all over me, then I grab it with both hands and the paper is easier to hold than the slippery metal oil cap.
Yeah, like that.
Umm, I woulda thought it would come loose, myself. Are you sure it is the ‘unscrew’ kind of oil cap? Some of 'em just sort of pull loose straight up. Do you know for sure it’s a screw type oil cap?
Oh, haven’t had the car long, huh? I know how that goes. I once had this Toyota, just bought it used, drove into the gas station and found out I didn’t know where the fuel fill spout was! Yeah, really! There was this chromium strip slapped onto the divider between the rear passenger side window and the rear window, and believe it or not, it flipped up and WHOA there was the filler spout. Weird, huh? You’d think it would be under the license plate, or else in an obvious spot on the side, but under a chrome strip?
Yeah, try pulling, can’t hurt. At least I don’t think it could hurt.
Bummer. Hey, are you sure that’s the oil filler cap?
Yeah, I guess if it says “OIL” on it, that’s a dead giveaway.
Well, if it were mine, I guess I’d take a hammer and a screwdriver and whack it sort of on the side and try to loosen it, but it might sort of crumple and then you’d need to get a new oil filler cap and maybe even a new valve cover, you know, and also you’d still be sitting there not able to add any oil, but if you want me to…
No, I don’t think you should try to drive it that way.
Umm, well, do you, like, maybe have triple A? I could call for you, I think I’ve got a couple quarters here…
Oh, cell phone? Groovy, those things are so cool. So, like, you don’t need me to place the call or anything, right? OK, well, good luck and all that. Nice to meet ya!
::Sir Galahad departs::
Woman checking in.
I respectfully disagree with the OP. The part of Chivalry that I hope never dies is the basic “helping the downtrodden”. The underdog. Rushing to help even out the odds. Oh yeah. 
BUT I don’t think women are automatically in that category and haven’t been for some time. Even wearing heels(though, it is a almost impossible to change a tire dressed up and not wind up filthy, which is why fix-a-flat is something no car should be without.). And you shouldn’t take a job that involves carrying a lot of stuff upstairs unless you’re willing to, well, carry a lot of stuff upstairs. Sheesh.
**
What several guys have posted about door opening and whatnot. It really isn’t such a big deal. Do it if that’s what you feel is polite. Don’t if you don’t wanna. I’ve NEVER personally witnesses someone being given a hard time for holding a door. A person who’s annoyed at such a casual favor will also be pissed if you let the door slam in her face.
See, you have these basic Pissy People in the world.
It’s fun to just smile at them and think:
You have to listen to yourself ALL DAY LONG
**
(And to my former boss? I know you’re just being polite and stuff, but don’t break your neck trying to get to the door first when I’m 15 feet ahead of you. Really not necessary. Please note how I’m perfectly happy to hold the door for you when I get there first, so there’s no need to sprint:))
AHunter3, with auto repair skills like that, you will never achieve the Sangrail.
holy shit.
i never knew wring’s a woman.
not that it materes or anything.
but I have no idea why I never knew that.
i feel really lame and unobservat now.
jeez.
(Surprise, surprise, another long-winded post from me)
Oh goody. Finally, a post I can get up a good bitch about, and it even touchs on multiple areas I feel strongly about.
leslers, you’re right that you should have been offered a hand without asking for it. I don’t care if it’s a man or a woman who’s nicely dressed trying to screw around with their car. It’s almost impossible to open the oil cap, open the quart of oil, pour it and replace the cap without getting a little bit dirty. If I’m dressed casually, you can bet I’ll offer to do it for someone to save them the inconvenience. If I’m dressed well, there’s always at least a newspaper in the back of my car I can improvise with, and I’ve had to add oil to my own car often enough that I’ve gotten pretty adept at it.
If you see someone struggling with bags or boxes, it’s only decent to offer help if you’re able, again, regardless of gender.
Now, on to the gender issues and all the in-chiming. This inanity of this subject has always amazed me. I was raised to treat women with respect. NOT because they’re inferior but because they have a harder lot than we men do. They have traditionally earned less, been treated subserviently had to handle most of the home upkeep AND in the last couple generations maintain a career as well. Other than being expected to do a larger portion of work around the house, men’s lot hasn’t really changed.
I am most certainly glad that the lot of women has improved in the last few decades, but the “gender equality” issue and all its related ilk is a movement that didn’t know when to stop when it won. The glass ceiling is pretty much gone. Woman can and are leaders in every field. They get the same respect and command the same authority in the workplace, etc., etc.
Then simple respect and courtesy comes under attack because it’s a mark that women are different. Well boo fucking hoo. Women ARE different. Man =/ woman. Woman =/ man. You will note, I hope, that I did not say inferior, less capable or anything of the kind. Just different. That’s a good thing for a lot of women.
What the feminists did (and I realized I’m painting with a broad brush here, but I’m specifically referring to those who get pissed off when a gentleman holds a door, assists with a coat, etc.) was milk out any benefit they were traditionally afforded. They won equal pay. They won special circumstance consideration for woman- and family-specific issues such as pregnancy, day care, etc. Congratulations. Those are good things.
Then they kept pushing until they ended up trying to make themselves the same as men: Rude, offensive and so equal that no special consideration or evidence of manners was necessary. As a result, the entire society has gotten more rude, less respectful and less willing to be of any help to anyone. I don’t blame feminism exclusively for this, but I sure hold it partly responsible.
Too bad. The feminists and women in general lose both socially and individually.
When I reach a door before a woman, I hold it open for her. Dont’ get me wrong, I won’t wait for a woman to come the entire length of the parking lot, but waiting a few steps is fine and the right thing to do.
When I’m out with a woman, be it in a personal or professional environment, I stand up when she returns to the table. A couple of years ago my CEO and I were having dinner with two editors and the publisher (a woman) of a trade magazine. Kelly left to use the bathroom. When she returned to the table, I stood up. She was flattered and my CEO and the two editors felt like rude chumps, which they should have.
If I’m driving and a woman is my passenger, I’ll open her door first before getting into the car myself.
I’ll help a woman on with her coat if she is part of my party.
Etc. Etc.
I won’t do any of these things because the woman is weak or inferior, I will do it because I respect women. Period.
If I get static from some politically charged dipshit who can’t handle a little courtesy and feels she’s being oppressed because I held a door for her, she’ll get a hearty, “Fuck you, asshole.” Note, I did not say bitch. If I get an “after you” or “go ahead” in the same situation, I’ll do so. I’m certainly not going to foist courtesy on someone, and if they courtesouly decline, that’s their right and perogative. There is never, however, an excuse to answer courtesy with rudeness.
I’m just sorry there are so few of us, both men and women, who were raised right.
let the flamming commence. I’m going to go watch West Wing.
Fallenangel, your post brought back a memory from a couple of years ago. I held a door open for a middle-aged women with parcels (not Bill, some stuff in her arms) and she went through, smiled, turned around, and said, “You know, your momma raised you right.” Said momma was thrilled to hear that when I called her a little later.
I’m female, BTW, McKenna’s my last name (Carolyn’s my first). I grew up in the Bronx during the Fort Apache years (although it was never that bad up here) and realized early on what Giuliani finally persuaded the rest of the city of-the little things matter. I’ll give up my seat on the subway to pregnant women, people with canes of any age, and old people of both genders; about half the time they refuse politely, but I’ve NEVER gotten a rant about how I’m trying to disempower them and can understand why a guy who got that shit would stop trying. It doesn’t seem related to race or economic status either; ladies and gentlemen can come from anywhere, and I’ve seen tough South Bronx guys get up for old folks while upper-middle-class Wall Street types stay put.
It does rankle me when said old lady totters onto the subway and there’s like ten strapping healthy young guys sitting there staring blankly at her, and me, and I’m the one who offers. I don’t know what this says about me but I agree it’s just a matter of respect for folks who might have it tougher than you in general. And the elderly folks of color seem to be happier at my offer than anyone else (I’m white). I don’t know what this says either. But maybe the whole point is do unto others and all that jazz. Someday you’ll be old and if you don’t mind standing for 45 minutes on the IRT or juggling three bags of groceries to pull on a door handle, then don’t lead by example.
I’d have helped. But then I’m a Suthun’ gentleman too, deah!
Bummer for you. Hey, wring, is that penguin split still on offer? I’ll make it worth your while. 
Yes, andros, wring is a woman. And she seems to wear really interesting undergarments.
mutters something about a ‘french twist’ and wanders off
-Stil
I open doors for people whether they are male or female. I don’t know how to do a great deal of mechanical things but if someone has a problem, I will try to fix it, regardless of gender, color, age, religion, or sexual orientation. It doesn’t matter to me.
That said, as a woman, I find it very flattering when I am out on a date with someone who opens a door for me. I don’t expect pulling out a chair or helping me with my coat, but opening a door seems to indicate a bit of courtesy and interest and it always makes me happy.
I try to reciprocate as well. If my date opens a door for me, I’ll open one for him. Or I’ll do something nice in some way–it doesn’t matter what. I think kindness and manners are something that society as a whole lags behind on, and I just try to change it not by lecturing other people, but by being nice myself.
Ooooh, boy, wierd that I saw this thread today. Let me share a story. Warning–this is basically going to be a huge hijack. Sorry.
So, today, this guy was a complete cock to me for no damn reason. I was surprised, but now, after reading some of your posts, I understand–he’s frustrated by simpering women who try to take advantage of his manly strength in the workplace.
I was trying to haul around some nitrogen and CO2 tanks this morning. This is difficult for me to do, not because I am a woman, but because I’ve had umpteen surgeries on my shoulder and it’s basically fucking useless. So, I asked this charmer if he could give me a hand. He started yelling at me, telling me that he’s sick of stupid chicks expecting him to be a pack mule, etc, etc. He finished off by pointing out that, at 6’2", I’m “bigger than most guys,” and therefore can “haul my own shit.” Well, fuck you. So I asked you to haul some stuff around for me. You didn’t object when I offered to take over some of your work since your big ham-fists are unable to perform any task more delicate than wiping your ass.
Personally, I enjoy a little chivalry now and then. But guys, even if you have been burned before and are now totally against it, could you please avoid taking your bitterness out on innocent coworkers? Thanks.
… rassin’ frackin’ dingle-snaffin’ ding-blasted …
AARRRGHHH! That’s about the fifth time in a row today that somebody’s come up with my answer before I could post it!
Hrm. I’ve held doors for people and never gotten yelled at or glared at for so doing. At worst, they don’t even notice, but that’s not the point of doing so.
Maybe I’m doing it wrong?
I would just like to say to Dale the Bold and FallenAngel, you have restored my faith in men. It’s good to know that there are some of you still out there. And by the way I think it was Dale that said the glass ceiling had dissapeared? I respectfully disagree, woman still earn 5-10% less then men in any workplace. If pay were completely equal between the sexes, our economy would collapse. And I forget who posted about giving up their seat on the bus, but I have experience with this too, when I used to ride the bus I noticed that I was usually the only one who offered up my seat to an elderly passenger, when there were plenty of young males sitting (who afterwards glared at me, guess I was making them look bad) I work in a union building and there was a meeting last night so I had the chance to ask 40 or so men about the whole “opening doors greeted by glares and lectures” thing. Hardly anyone experienced this. I personally believe it’s an excuse for laziness. If you’ve opened the door for 50 odd people and 1 or 2 of them glared at you, that’s hardly reason enough to never open the door for anyone or offer help to anyone who needs it ever again. No one is THAT sensitive. There are rude people out there, so what? That doesn’t mean you have to become one of them.
And yet you feel compelled to bitch about an entire gender for the failings of a handful.