I learned kitten-squicking from my grandfather, and he learned it from his grandfather before him. It’s the conservative way.
Of course, back then they would have to make do with wild ferrets and gophers, and walk five miles to get them. We don’t realize how lucky we are.
You’re right. I’m disingenuous when I claim I don’t have any particular problem with this place. I’ve been broadcasting my outright hatred for it all this time through the most devious trickery! My secret method for making my discontent known is not talking about it! That’s how you can tell I constantly complain about this place - because I don’t post about it! Oh, how devilishly clever of you, This Year’s Model. You’ve seen right through my plot!
I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for that meddling mod!
Sorry, my dictionary of freaky sex acts isn’t really up-to-date. Does this translate to “I am a rapist?” Or does it just mean “I like to pretend to be a rapist and pretend to rape people who want to be raped?”
Either way, that is some seriously creepy shit.
If one is sexually aroused by rape, I find that lamentable and think that person should seriously consider getting professional help. To go in the opposite direction, however, and indulge and revel in those feelings, is disgusting, IMHO.
As far as BDSM goes, I’m not sure. On one hand, I think that anyone whose idea of lovemaking is beating the hell out of someone (or getting it beaten out of them) has some genuine psychological issues that need addressing. Evidently the DSM-IV backs me up on that. OTOH, it’s hard to stop laughing at those ridiculous outfits they wear for long enough to give the subject any kind of serious thought.
The first one in particular because many people – myself included – did not interpret the scene in question as being a rape at all, but rather prostitution. So when I read his post, my reaction was “Wow, into rape much?”
The second one is a pretty solid example of the type of post that might squick people out. You know, the fact that he believes one could train dogs to rape women. (As opposed to jackals, of course, because that would be silly.)
Oh, and Excalibre? I wouldn’t go so far as to claim that you don’t like the board, but you are kinda grouchy. (And I laughed at the comment that it is work to slog through your long posts. Can you summarize them, or give outlines, possibly?)
Generally speaking I disagree with the OP, as this is not a kiddie board and I’m not offended by BDSM, but in the specific case of Evil Captor I agree with the pitting. He’s over the top. I’m a bit surprised that nobody found this datapoint the least bit compelling:
Neither. It actually translates to “neutron star is an uptight prude.”
If you like reading murder mysteries, does that translate to “I am a murderer?” Or does it just mean “I like to pretend to be a murderer and pretend to murder people who want to be murdered?”
That I would disagree with. Rape fantasies are not at all uncommon (and from what I’ve heard, I think it’s even more common for women to fantasize about being raped than for men to fantasize about performing it.) The divide between fantasy and reality couldn’t be starker than the difference between fantasy rape and real rape. To whit, rape is sex you don’t want; if you act on fantasies about being “taken against your will”, by definition it is not rape because despite the burglar’s mask and other props, you’re having sex that you want. It’s not really logically possible to want to have sex that you don’t want.
I agree with you on the outfits. Man, no bigger turn-off than “leathermen” - the whole BDSM scene tends, with a lot of folks, to be so theatrical that I wouldn’t be able to maintain a straight face, let alone a hard-on. But short of truly dangerous behavior, interest in BDSM is extremely common, and the psychological community’s pathologizing of it seems untenable to me, since it’s common enough that it’s hard to even call it abnormal. Further, research is generally fairly clear that fetishes (or, to fans of the DSM-IV, “paraphilias”) are incredibly hard or impossible to eradicate through treatment. Even if they do owe their origin to some sort of childhood trauma, it’s wiring that’s set for life. So the question of whether it’s a disease or not seems academic, since there’s nothing to be done about it anyway. I agree with the BDSM community’s general contention that as long as it’s safe, sane, and consensual, it’s fine.
That doesn’t mean I want to hear one guy’s interest in it over and over, though.
You could walk to get them? We had to send away for them, wait 2-4 weeks, and then they wouldn’t be alive when they got here. And we liked it!
skwik
First of all, sexual fantasies are not always about what we actually want to do in person. For many people, sexual fantasies, are just that, fantasies. People have all sorts of fantasies that would gross them out if they were forced to act upon it in real life. In the realm of stories, pictures, graphic novels and roleplay, people engage in all sorts of sexual behavior which they would never do in real life. Being turned on by these fantasies does not mean that the person is sick or planning to go out and act upon them, they are merely ways of exploring the darker sides of our sexual natures in a safe environment. A person with an incest kink might ask their partner to pretend to be their father in a role-play sex session, but the idea of their actual father having sex with them would make them sick.
What’s more, not everyone who reads/views kinks on the web actually acts out those kinks. A person who enjoys reading stories about incest might be disgusted if their partner wanted to act out an incestual fantasy with them. For these people, the line between fantasy and reality is very clearly defined.
Rape and non-con fantasies are actually very common, especially among women. Ultimately, it is about more than sex - power, domination, control. There are many reasons why a person would enjoy reading stories, viewing movies/pictures/graphic novels or role-playing non-con sex, including rape. I have known rape victims who enjoyed writing and reading non-con fanfiction because they felt it gave them control over the situation. A well written piece of work will portray both the feelings and emotions of the rapist and the rapee. Some people strongly identify with one, but others enjoy placing themselves in both the physical mind set of the victim or the attacker. My favorite genre is Boy’s Love, which is basically gay male porn written/drawn by women for women. Rape is very common in it, to the point where it is almost a joke in some communities. There have been many essays written and discussions among us girls about why exactly rape fantasies are so common in these stories written by women for women, but no definate answers.
When role-playing online, I always ask my partner if it is okay for one of my characters to sexually abuse one of hers (I almost exclusively rp with females). While her character does not consent to the actions of my characters, she, the controller of the situation has consented for the actions to take place. This is typical in most of the adult role-playing communities I’ve been part of. Anyone who actually rapes a character (attacks them without the owner’s consent) is immediately banned.
The reason why I find EC so creepy is that he does what most of us who are into such things don’t do because of reactions like yours. I don’t mention it often, except in conversations about it or when I am trying to defend it. I’ve been involved in many adult communities over the years and I’ve seen how touchy a subject non-con is for most people. It is something that severely squicks people out and I respect and understand that. In almost all of the communities that I currently am or have been a member of, you had to post warnings if you were going to post something non-con so other members of the community could not click the link if they didn’t want to see such a thing.
Excellent point which I forgot to mention in my post. Among women (never been involved with men in such situations) who are interested in rping non-con, most of them want to play the rapee. When I used to exclusively play aggressors, I had no want of partners who wanted to play my “victim.” Now that I want to play some victims too, I have a much harder time finding partners.
I read a lot in Cafe Society and Great Debates - if I see Evil Captor’s name in the former, I cringe, waiting for a reference to how rape scenes turn him on; if I see his name in the latter, I look forward to what will probably be an interesting and well-thought out post.
To the best of my knowledge there’s quite a few Dopers who have similar fantasies, and they manage not to bring it into every conversation about what movies they like. And I’d say that the majority of people on this board are well aware that no-one cares as much as they do about what turns them on, so they don’t mention it unless asked. So yeah, it’s pretty annoying that Evil Captor is so eager to share, regardless of what the original topic is.
It’s inaccurate to say that he’s a one-trick-pony, because of the contributions he makes to more serious topics. But I do roll my eyes whenever he mentions it - yes, we get it, you like certain things, yay for hentai, what else do you do for fun? And I wouldn’t have thought that a guy who makes his own movies would need help finding wank material, but that’s what a lot of his threads look like he’s after.
Ah. Yeah. Real helpful. Thanks. :rolleyes:
Is the bar really set so low nowadays that finding violent sex acts revolting makes one a prude?
Bullshit analogy. One might read those books for a host of reasons: insight into the criminal mind, interest in police/detectivework, fascination with a well-told tale, and on, and on, and on.
I like watching “Law & Order: SVU,” but I don’t root for the rapist, and I’m sure as hell not jacking off to it.
Science may not presently be equipped to make these things better, but it seems like indulging them can only make it worse.
Compare it to an activity like cutting. Sure, a severely depressed person isn’t hurting anyone but himself by carving his body up like a turkey, but it invariably points to a deeper problem. I don’t think he should be arrested for that, and I don’t think he should be stigmatized for it. But I also don’t think that we should just pat him on the head and tell him to keep it up.
Self-destructive behavior should be discouraged in all but its most mild forms, IMHO.
Then again, maybe I just don’t get the mindset (actually I’m sure I don’t). I’ve engaged in things that could be described as self-destructive (e.g. drug and alcohol use), but did so because they made me feel happy. I simply can’t understand how pain could make someone feel good. It would be like drinking a 12-pack and hating the drunkenness, but loving the hangover.
There are plenty of sexual practices and preferences that don’t turn me on, but I can still understand how others would enjoy them. Violence isn’t one of them. If that makes me an uptight prude in the eyes of some, then so be it.
Exactly. I’m mostly a Cafe Society poster, and EC is my least favorite poster in that forum.
Here on earth we make a distinction between fantasy and reality.
No. Refusing to see that bondage (consensual) and violent non consensual sex acts such as rapes are two different things makes one an ignorant prude. There are people who practice bondage and don’t even use anything as violent as gasp a spanking.
I think the big distinction between people who are squicked and people who don’t see the problem is the forum they most read. I read Cafe Society mostly and so pretty much all I see of Evil Captor is his BDSM and rape/slave fantasy fetish posts. I’ve apparantly missed the balancing part of his persona where he contributes worth in Great Debates.
I suppose that makes sense in a way (a way that I’ll never come close to identifying with personally, but still, a way). I do thank you for your well-thought-out post. I guess it all seems so alien to me because I like to strive for equality in a sexual relationship. I don’t want power over someone, and I don’t want them to have it over me. Sex, to me, is about love. It’s an extension of a romantic relationship, and controlling relationships are invariably bad relationships.
I do find it interesting that more women than men are into the rape stuff, and I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that women are more likely to be victims of real rape.
Obviously, this isn’t exactly a simple subject, so I appreciate your input.
Yeah, I get that part. In case you’re having trouble with your reading comprehension, that quote was not in reference to bondage, but rather what was described as “non-consensual sex acts.”
Apparently, I am somewhat ignorant of these subjects (though the kind of ignorance that is traditionally defeated by hanging around in makeshift dungeons isn’t the kind that I’m terribly ashamed of having), so I’d like to again thank kimera (and Excalibre) for the information.
You and Ellis Dee, on the other hand…
Trolling for dates? Yes, we get it, you are the super perfect sensitive type who would never mistreat a single precious hair on your lover’s head. Bully for you.
One reason that women enjoy rape fantasies is that some women are taught that sex and sexual desire are dirty and shameful. A rape fantasy allows all the pleasure of sex without any of the dirtiness of actively participating in sex. Of course I’m only talking about rape fantasies, not rape.
But none of this is relevant to the thread, and is in fact a distressing hijack. The point of this pitting, if I may be so bold, is that EC consistently and frequently shits his slave rape & torture fetish into every CS thread he enters.
I have no problem with any of the threads he himself starts; I know what I’m getting into when I participate in those. (And, quite frankly, some of them are pretty good.)
It’s the fact that he interjects his sexual fantasies into everyone else’s non-sexual threads that is annoying and pitworthy.
Actually, I’ve read a few accounts of arena spectacles involving women being raped by animals. I don’t know whether it really occured or if it was an invention of later historians (some texts are nothing but fictional slander of emperors). Either way, it isn’t Evil Captor’s idea. Of course it would be easier to train dogs than jackals for the act. What act isn’t easier to train dogs for than jackals?
Back To The Op
Evil Captor does not squick me. I don’t feel that he’s done anything wrong. But, I still want to punish him. He’ll wake up, chained and manacled to my stocks. I’ll spend hours whipping him, rubbing his skin with the finest sandpaper, dousingb him with icy water, spanking him with an oak paddle. I’ll continue this for months, until I am his world-his mother, his father, his god. In time, his mind will drop to a subhuman state. He’ll forget the skills he had. He’ll forget the people he used to know. He’ll forget how to talk. He’ll forget everything but the desire to please me.
Only then will I remove his bonds and ravish him. When it is over, we shall share a Charleston Chew. When the last of that fine confection is gone, I will open wide the cellar door and gesture toward the outside world and freedom. My beloved pet will cringe from the light and whimper at the thought of places and things outside his dungeon home.
Good dog.
God, you’re an asshole, aren’t you? I just tried to explain the position I’m coming from WRT to this issue, and why the whole thing seems so incomprehensible to me.
If I were trolling for dates, I somehow doubt I’d be doing it in a Pit thread with the word “bondage” in the title.
I’m more of a board reader than a board poster as my post count attests to but if I may jump in…I think that the example you give above, percentage of your posts in linguistics as compared to the percentage of posts by EC on bondage is somewhat skewed.
Making this comparison you would also have to consider the popularity of the subject and the amount of people who would openly express an interest in it. Just of the top of my head I feel that, even on a board as open as this one where most opinions are within discussion, you would find a much larger amount of people who would express an interest in linguistics than you would in bondage. This will serious skew any comparison you make between your posting on linguistics and EC’s on bondage. If on the other hand you had a hobby/pastime/whatever that was more ‘marginal’ (not meaning to offend anyone who is into bondage, I’m just trying to find a word that works here) then the comparison would be more valid.
Now personally I’ve not noticed any particular pattern in EC’s postings, although Cafe Society is normally a skim read for me and I don’t always notice who is posting the comments…I just read the posts. If EC’s postings are bothering some people in CS, have those people addressed EC in the threads in question asking him not to derail the thread or to tone down his comments? I would hope, especially on this board, that this would be the first step to towards asking a doper to tone down an action that is apparently bothering some people. Perhaps said doper is not aware that their actions are bothering people, in fact if no one has mentioned it to them directly how can they be aware? What bothers me most about this is that I haven’t seen any evidence of that sort of action. Instead it appears to be more of a very ‘behind the back’ sort of gathering of evidence and then presenting it to the community at large. That sort of behaviour in adults and again especially on this board, makes me feel very uneasy.
Maybe it’s just me but I would hope for a more mature approach to an issue that is apparently bothering some people. Indeed I’ve seen in many threads on this board where dopers have had problems with colleagues, friends, relatives and so on where the first piece of advice is ‘talk to them about this directly and as soon as it bothers you’. Perhaps the dopers in question here should follow their own collective advice?
grey_ideas