I don’t have a husband. Do I have to have one who agrees with me before I do what I want to do anyway?
Keep in mind that if a man wants to have kids, this does mean that there will be no long term relationship much less marriage.
That is, I won’t consider marrying someone who I know wants children, even if it means breaking off a relationship with someone I love, which I have done before.
I didn’t term any ages at all. Please reread the thread. I specifically did NOT say any ages.
I never said it was a relief for you. I considered it a plus because it would allow you to change your mind should you decide to later. I’m not sure why this is tough for you to understand. Having options is bad? A terrible thing?
Also not true. Never said that, never (to my knowledge) even implied it. Again, cite this. Back up this claim.
I’ve said often in this thread that I think it’s shitty for people to presume those without kids should want them and should have them. I said this early in the thread, I said it in the middle, and I’ll say it once again. It’s bad. OK?
So your philosophy is to go through life with zero regrets? That’s fine, and IMO that’s laudable. But, um, what about all those people who do have regrets?
There’s nothing wrong with having some regrets. If we have the opportunity to correct an earlier action that we at the time thought was a great decision, then it’s nice to have that opportunity - although I would definitely stop short of saying one would absolutely have to take advantage of that option.
bluethree, if you’re still hanging around this thread, I’d like to have this comment explained to me. If you’re talking about the obvious process of labor and birth, that’s cool. If you’re talking about the roles of the mom and dad after the child is born, I will do my best to flame you into oblivion.
I guess that’d be between you and him, should he ever exist. As for me, if I were married to someone who told me one day, “Oh, by the way, I’m getting my tubes tied,” without even discussing it with me, I’d be more than a little upset about it - unless, of course, there were medical issues (i.e., she needed to have it done for medical reasons). You and I may differ on that, and I have no problem with that.
That’s tough to do, so congrats on doing it. It must have been heartbreaking (and no, I’m not being sarcastic).
And, in fact, if you plan now not to have children, then weeding out the males who want them is a very smart thing to do, IME.
I really don’t know why we’re arguing. We agree on just about every aspect.
Because it’s not a plus. It’s not even a factor in the consideration.
Factors of consideration included how reliable it was and what the odds were that it would grow back together on its own. I don’t give a crap about whether or not it can be reversed. If I cared about that, I’d use an IUD and not have surgery.
If you (generic you) have regrets, it is your (generic your) problem. It’s not for me to tell you (generic you) to reconsider some decision or put it off because I think you (generic you) might have to live with regret later.
This only becomes an issue if great thought and care weren’t put into making such a permanent decision.
For example:
Tattoos are extremely painful, expensive, and difficult to remove surgically should one want to do this. They are for all intents and purposes a permanent physical change to the body that a person might regret.
Yet I guarantee you I’ve put a lot more thought into the permanent decision to be surgically sterilized than most people who go into a tattoo shop on their 18th birthday to get inked. There’s no waiting period on a tattoo, which is just as permanent and perhaps even more likely to cause regrets, yet there’s such a stigma about the permanent decision to not have children.
Which only leads me further into the belief that it’s not because the decision is permanent that you and others seem to have such a hard time not questioning, it’s because of what the decision itself is.
Ok, that’s you. That’s your decision, and it’s your prerogative to make that decision with those criteria. What about others? Are they allowed to have it as a factor in their decision?
Right, which is why I’m not saying making the decision in the first place is a bad, bad thing.
I can’t help what you believe, but this is completely untrue.
If you have thought as hard as you say about this decision, then my hat’s off to you - and I have no reason to doubt you.
It’s a tough decision, no matter what. There probably are some people in the world, however, who make the decision without doing the research that is required. I think it’s that kind of person that bugs me. One of the earlier posts in here (from ghandi, I believe) seemed to imply this, although I could have misconstrued it.
Very good analogy with the tattoo - I happen to have one, and if I do want to get it removed, it’ll be costly and even a little dangerous. I might never do so, just for that reason. But then again, I don’t have people telling me all the time how much worse I am than them because I have one (mostly because it’s not obvious).
Their business, their life.
How they arrive at their decisions which they pay for and only they have to live with is not for me to judge, question or be bothered by.
If it affected me in some way, maybe. But as long as it doesn’t, it’s none of my business and I have no grounds to be ‘bugged’.
dan, I could respond to you point by point. But I think I’ll just say that I am amazed by how many things you can simultaneously say and then say that you didn’t say them. Maybe you didn’t say those things in certain exact words, but your entire tone and argument just exudes them. It’s like a mother-in-law who says she doesn’t want to interfere, and then proceeds to interfere. You say you empathize, and then show clearly that you don’t get it at all, although you seem to think you do.
catsix, carry on. Yer doing great. I’ve gotta get back to work.
Well, sorry Scarlett. If I said them, then I meant them. If you took them a different way, then I cannot help that. Isn’t it possible you’re misinterpreting?
I’ve said the same things throughout this thread. They just don’t seem to be getting through to you.
IDBB, I can sympathize, for I’ve been there, as this thread might suggest. And SpazCat, though I would not make light in any way of the condition that ravaged you, I hope you realized how blessed you are. By which I mean your niece and nephew, of course – as the three little ones whom my “son” and daughter-in-law had have been for me
DantheMan, you are right in that my reasons for not having kids or wanting kids are selfish. I will admit to being a very selfish girl.
I also know that children don’t choose their parents. And if for any reason, selfish or not, medical or otherwise, someone isn’t ready to have a child, they shouldn’t. My mother was 29 when she had me, and she always told me when I was little that she wondered what her life would have been like if she never had me, or never had gotten married to my dad, if she didn’t do various other stuff. Kids should never ever feel like they are to blame for a parent’s life course (or lack thereof). I feel that even if I have a kid later on in life, that it might hinder me from doing other things. If I had a child, I would always ask what if the kid wasn’t here? What would things have been like? What else? I would regret it. I learned at a young age that I was cause for someone’s regret, and I decided to never regret anything in my life. And after 22 years, I can say I don’t regret anything. I would like to continue that streak. I also know that it wouldn’t be fair to a child to have to live with any type of blame for my decision. The kid didn’t ask for me as a parent, and doesn’t ever deserve that. And if I could ever get to a point where I wouldn’t regret kids, I’d probably be dead.
I also know that my life isn’t static. I could end up with millions of dollars and a huge house and all of the material wealth to support a child. Or have the life experiences and knowledge to impart on a child. But if I can’t or am too selfish and unwilling to give my emotional support and love to a child, then the child will have nothing. It would be one of those kids that is sad and depressed and psychotic or something. If I have the power to cause that kind of fuck-up to a brand new life, the power to ruin the hope and faith and outlook of an innocent child, then I don’t want that responsibilty. I know I couldn’t ever handle that power or duty. And its best for me to never have a kid.
If someone has any sort of reason for not wanting kids, temporary or permenant, then it is valid. And sterilization may be an extreme way to ensure that kids never happen, but if someone knows that they can never handle kids, then prevent it. Someone said you can’t un-abort a child, and its true. You can’t bring back the next Albert Einstein or great president or burger flipper (whatever it would have been that was aborted). I know that I can’t use hormonal birth control, that diaphrams aren’t that effective (and are incredibly hard to use properly). I take the risk of a perforated uterus and bleeding to death with an IUD. Condoms are uncomfortable and not as reliable as I would like. And I do want the sterilization, for the reasons listed previously and also because it is effective in stopping kids. That’s my decision. I’m comfortable with it. The boy is comfortable with it. And Mr. Right (if its the boy or not) will agree.
There’s far too much arguing here and not enough propaganda…
IDBB, just tell people you believe in the Voluntary Human Extinction MovemenT as your way of ridding the Earth of insensitive clods like them.
Thank you, Weird Earl’s.
All kidding aside, from reading their pages, you might think there was no good reason in the world to have children. Maybe there really isn’t.
-Firmly Undecided
This is such an incredibly rude and intrusive question, I’m constantly amazed that people can be this awful. “Why don’t you have children yet? Don’t you want them?” is right up there with “So when are you going to look into that gastric bypass I mentioned and do something about your weight, dearie?” for utter rudeness. I vote for the Miss Manners response of a freezing look and “That’s a personal matter”, or “I can’t imagine why you would want to know that.”
It’s a really dangerous question. You would think a rude person could only ask it once or twice before getting a tearful response of “We just had our 3rd miscarriage, thanks very much” or some other foot-in-mouth scenario that would teach them not to do it, but they keep right on going.
I suppose we were really lucky in that we never got this treatment. We were married for I think about 5 years before the Kidlet came along, and we’re Mormon, so many of our friends/family are champion baby-producers, but we were never really asked about it.
My parents were also married for about 5 years before they had me, and Mom got so tired of the questioning she got that she hatched a plan with her friend to get a headless baby doll and a coconut (for a head) and carry it around in a blanket, dazedly saying “Look, I found a baby. It’s my baby…” You may wish to try this plan!
Not picking on you, but just providing additional information. There is a new procedure called Essure that is a little different from the old tubal ligation (slash and burn) or the clips. It is NOT reversible at all. (at this point in time) This is the method I’m choosing, for many reasons. One of the reasons being that three months after the procedure is done, your tubes are checked to see if it was successful, negating the scary ‘not knowing you’re still fertile’ problem. And the method isn’t susceptible to the tube tissue regenerating and reopening the tubes, which is a slight possibility with other methods.
There’s a big story about this, but this probably isn’t the time or place. Suffice it to say, if my husband disagreed with this, we would either be going through divorce proceedings, or would never have married. Being sterilised is that much of a fundamental need for me. Responsible use of birth control just isn’t enough for me.
Dantheman, I think one of the reasons why you’re getting some aggro is because (the positive stuff you are saying aside,) you keep mentioning how permanent it is. Now I may be mischaracterising you, and I’m sorry if I am, but the tone of your posts seem to imply that because it’s such a huge permanent decision, that we all need to go off and think about it some more. Most people who seriously want to be sterilised (i.e, have actually done research, spoken to doctors, etc) have thought about this subject way more than anything else in their lives. I’ve been thinking about it for 11 years. I don’t need any more thinking, my decision has been made over and over again. Now I’m NOT saying that you’ve said that I need to think it over more (in fact, the opposite) but your tone is saying that everyone needs to think some more, because it’s so permanent. It feels a little condescending when you know you’ve done enough thinking. The double standard present here is what annoys a lot of childfree people, nobody goes to these lengths when the subject is tattoos or having a child, yet they are permanent changes also.
Please note, I’m not trying to attack you, I’m just trying to explain how your posts might ‘feel’. 
dan -
I think part of the reason people are getting so wound up is that people who choose sterilization are generally not looking for a way out; they’re assuming (and from the post toward the end of the front page, assuming correctly) that their minds are not going to change.
As far as that assumption being correct, let’s take a look at my (anecdotal and personal) experience.
When I was twelve or so (the age I started babysitting, at which point, BTW, I had been having my period for three years) I came to the conclusion that I never wanted kids. Ever. The reasons were and are many and varied, and mine.
If you had offered me the opportunity to be sterilized at that point, I would have said absolutely yes.
I am now thirty three - so, 21 years later - and my mind has not changed on this matter at all. Not one whit. And watching my friends have children, and seeing the effect that has had on their lives, has only reinforced my decision and my thinking. I have no “biological clock,” no “maternal instinct.” I enjoy my friends kids (particularly the giving them back part). I don’t need any of my own.
I have not even tried to get myself sterilized, in part because of the experience of my roommate (which has been overwhelmingly negative), but also in part because it’s been a non-issue. I’m not involved in fluid-exchange sexual activities with anyone. Ergo, no risk of pregnancy.
As far as making the decision without the input of a man - Why TF should I care what some hypothetical man thinks about me having my tubes tied? Since wanting children is absolutely a dealbreaker for me (in fact, having children is an iffy proposition for me - I’d have to really like the person, male or female, in question) it won’t be an issue. If being sterile is a dealbreaker for the man then that’s as it is.
And this probably hasn’t cleared a damn thing up, but I feel better now that it’s off my chest.
Why thankee kindly Polycarp. I do realize how lucky I am with a nice little Monkey and Bunny to play with. Not only that, but it takes pressure off me since my sisters took care of the grandson/daughter thing for me. Helps to be the very youngest sometimes. Also helps that I’m Monkey’s favorite person.
Something I’ve been wondering lately: Why is it people are more accepting of a person who can’t/shouldn’t have children because of a physical condition than a psychological aversion*? Personally, I would be much more comfortable with someone who had breast cancer giving birth than someone who can’t stand kids? I’d rather have someone who thought about it and decided that they liked children and would like to raise one have children. (For one thing, my class sizes would go down to about six.)
A retort I thought of for the “What if you change your mind later” plaint regarding spaying: It’s called “adoption.”
*this is the best term I could think of at the moment. I’m sure there’s a word that can better describe what I mean but I’m experiencing vocabulary failure.
BTW - I’m highly amused by the definition of tube tying as “spaying” and will recommend to roommate that when she brings it up to her doctor next time that it be the term she uses.
I knew at 16. I have always said I never wanted children, and if for any reason I did change my mind (unlikely because I don’t particularly care for children) I would adopt. I have zero desire to bear young. And for 16 years, I’ve had to listen to people tell me time and again, “You’ll change your mind when you’re older”. I thought, wrongly, that at 32 I was past that. Until one of my bosses said that exact thing to me last week.
When I was younger and had the extra cash no one would spay me, now that I’m of age and have a gyno that will do it, I can’t afford the bloody surgery. So it’s BC Pills and Condoms, and I still sweat it every single month (when I’m actually having sex that is :D) that I might get pregnant.
I don’t have a maternal bone in my body. Babies don’t make my uterus clench, I don’t want to smell them (eww), and I certainly have no desire to hold them and coo over them. Personally, until they are walking and talking, I don’t have much use for them and don’t want to be around them. Even after I’m not too keen on it. I don’t think this makes me a bad person, but it would make me a bad parent.
Good god, what makes a person say such hateful things? Is it backlash?
I don’t have a problem with some one saying “kids aren’t for me”, but this whole hysterical ranting thing confuses me.
thx
I said that I can be civil to children. Do I go out of my way to be near children? Hell no. I don’t hang out at the maternity ward of the hospital and say how cute the little coneheads and space aliens are (which is what I think they look like when they come out). I don’t hang out in elementary schools or day care centers or playgrounds or Chuck E Cheese’s. I don’t go looking for the things.
However, I do see kids around when doing normal things–shopping, working, walking around, etc. I don’t chase the buggers around and try to squash them like flies, but I don’t enjoy their presence either. At work (I work in an animal hospital), if someone brings a kid with them, I keep my mouth shut, take some Advil for the impending headache that they will cause, wait until said parent and kid leave, then bitch about how the kid messed something up or kept talking or were just being kids.
I have enough sense to be polite, and enough sense to know that someone probably loves that little terror. It just isn’t me. I don’t like it, I don’t want to be near it, and I do the happy dance when its gone. I try to avoid them, but they seem to be everywhere, so I’m polite. Deep down though, I can’t wait for the kid to be gone, for the experience to be over, and for the little brat to be gone. I tend not to think of kids as human. Deep down, when I see a kid, it makes me just mad that the offending thing is sharing my space (whether it be a checkout line in a store, or at the laundromat, or in the office, or in the car next to mine on the highway making faces at me or whatnot). I can’t stand kids. Period. I can be polite near them, but it is not my thing. And if that’s mean or god-awful or unbelievable or horrible or not even human, so be it. But that’s my opinion, and that’s part of who I am. (And that’s a damn good reason for me to never ever have a kid of my own.)