Do NOT assume that because I don't have kids I'm in the wrong!

The BBQ Pit
101

Wow, don’t you think that’s a little off-balance? That you don’t think kids are human, etc.?

Truthfully, I don’t like dogs. Especially ill-behaved dogs. But I don’t have to take advil to be around them. And I certainly don’t prance around the place when they vacate the premises.

I think its perfectly normal not to want to have kids. But if kids cause you so much pain, you may want to talk to a psycho-therapist or something. It sounds kinda miserable. …having to dread encounters with such a large percentage of the human race.

102

I would also like to say that I plan on being sterilized, as soon as possible, and I can find a doctor willing to do it. Any potential mates would be informed of my unwillingness and inability to bear children (as my current SO is aware of, and shares my views.)

Should I ever regret my decision, I’ll adopt a child in need of a home. I’m a frugal person and there’s no sense in wasting perfectly good used kids just to have a “new” one instead. And the used one won’t ruin my figure or make me sick for 9 months, and I can get it already housebroken. I don’t mind older kids (about 5+), but I absolutely cannot stand babies.

I will NOT bear children. Should I become pregnant, if I find myself unable to get an abortion, I’d probably do everything I could possibly think of to induce a miscarriage as early as possible. If the idea that one or more aborted, dead or deformed fetus/baby things and a possibly injured or even dead Jin is more appealing than letting me have a surgery that I might but highly bloody unlikely regret later, then so be it. I have been disgusted by the idea of birthing a child since I could understand the concept, and when I was very young, I used to say I wished I had been born a boy. You can imagine the absolute delight I felt when I read in a book for the first time the concept of permanent sterilization. You can also imagine how horrible it felt the first time I tried to have the procedure done, when I was 20, and before I could even get the words out of my mouth the woman OB/GYN I was speaking with basically laughed in my face until I almost cried and tried to cram pills down my throat as an acceptable substitute.

I am also sick of the “Oh, you’ll change your mind later,” line. No, I won’t. I haven’t changed my mind in 12 or 15 so years and I’m not going to change it. My life is devoted to my work, and only my work, I will not have some screaming baby-thing ruin it all for me. I have my reasons, I have plenty of them. I have very legitimate reason to believe I could be a physically and/or emotionally abusive parent (based on my own upbringing.) My occupations involve sharp objects and dangerous chemicals which I let lie around the house, and I have no desire to change that for the sake of some sprog. I imagine my body is not a very healthy place for anything to grow also due to said chemicals (which I accidentally inhale enough of and get on my skin to do damage to a developing slug). I have enough problems with fatigue, pain, stress and sometimes overwhelming anxiety, without the aid of a child. I’m vain. I’ve seen photos of my mother – she was a very attractive woman until she had me and my siblings starting at around 30. I value quiet above all things. I hate loud noise, loud music, loud movies, and loud television. I like breakable and expensive things. I like to travel.

The reason someone like me gets so riled up is because I believe it is horribly unfair to force someone in a position that leaves no good options. If I ask a doctor to provide a surgery for me and am repeatedly turned down, my only alternatives are unreliable hormonal or physical birth control (some of which are not always options), and abortion, should that fail. I would much prefer to have my surgery and not be forced to knowingly kill a potential baby at some later date should the need arise. And if some of the powers that be had their way, I would not be able to obtain an abortion either. Which leaves me only with abstinence or the very real possibility of unwanted pregnancy. I am not allowed the prevention, and there are people trying to deny me the cure. The only reasoning I can find behind any of this is that because I’m a woman, I’m supposed to have babies, and anything I want to do that goes against that thought, then I must be wrong, mistaken, or not know what’s best for myself.

I also find it somewhat cruel that right now I can go get pregnant if I so choose and get multiple abortions, which if you ask some people, is murder, yet I’m not allowed a surgery which would guarantee I never have to make that choice.

What does one do if one is unwilling to have a child at any cost, denied sterilization, and don’t really want to be responsible for the death of an unborn child? Never having sex is not really a realistic option, yet it sometimes seems to be the only one. It’s definitely not a realistic option if I want to maintain a meaningful romantic relationship and live a nomal, albeit childfree, life.

103

Madam, if you happened to be in Minot, ND, I would highly seek your company. Solely because I agree with you to the “nth” degree. . .

I am in no way, shape, or form to ‘settle down’. Ihave a job to do, and I thank you for clearly spelling a good majority of it out.

My reason is that I have too good of a lifestyle to even risk things right now. I don’t even plan on dating anyone because of it. . .

Tripler
Yes, Tripler’s Law has help from me, too. . .

104

Wait… So I need to get someone else’s permission before deciding not to have kids? Sorry, but anyone who would be affected by it either agrees with me, can deal with it, or isn’t going to be around to deal with it. This isn’t the kind of thing that my decision is based on making sure it’s okay with someone else. I’m the one who would have to give birth.

105

I don’t think you’ve mischaracterized me, and I thank you for your post.

I got the impression - which is only an impression, and it could well be an incorrect one - that ghandi had not thought about it as much as, say, you have.

I think what I didn’t want to see was someone deciding, “You know, screw it, I hate kids, I’ll never ever in a bajillion years have kids, so I’m getting the operation right now.” In other words, a spur-of-the-moment thing. There’s no way of knowing this is the case with ghandi, however.

Now, to me, it’s a no-brainer that this is a very important decision, and one that should not be taken lightly. I can’t speak for anyone, of course, but it seems to me that generally the younger one is, the more one should consult with other people about such major decisions, because one has fewer of one’s own experiences from which to draw.

As I said, I completely agree with the OP. People who have that smarmy “we have kids, you should too” attitude about them suck. :slight_smile: My guess is that most of these people don’t behave this way out of intentional malevolence, but rather they think they’re being altruistic and giving you some sort of helpful advice. They just don’t seem to consider the effect their “advice” has on a person, and they don’t seem to consider that such advice is neither needed nor wanted. I feel bad for people who have to put up with this treatment.

106

But your reasoning is just anectdotal - that is, it applies to you. As I said before, does everyone feel the same way at age 30 as they did at age 20? It’s not likely, although it’s possible. Things change.

Well, let’s say we’re talking about an actual marriage, rather than just a SO. If you’ve gotten to the point where you’re married to someone and presumably love them more than peanut butter, and you have a great relationship, then it only makes sense to include that person in the decision. As with any decision involving your own body, it’s your decision, but I would think input might be welcomed, if not altogether accepted.

107

dantheman, the majority of posters in this thread who have said they don’t want kids have known this since they were in their teens, and that includes me. I’m in my mid-30’s and I’ve have never been particularly fond of or good with kids, and like other people here, I don’t like babies. I’ve baby-sat maybe 3 times in my life and each time I’ve said never again. Also, if the man of my dreams knocked on the door this minute, it would still be at least a year before I’d consider doing anything that would result in having children, and I’m already at an age where the risks of birth defects and infertility are growing pretty steadily.

You mentioned the role of a husband/SO. I’m old fashioned, I’ll admit, but I firmly believe this should be discussed up front before a commitment is made, along with other important issues, such as religion, finances if need be (e.g., “I love you, but there’s a slight matter of $30,000 bad debt that I’ve got to pay off”), politics (“I love you, but I think Bush/Gore is a real twit”), or anything else matters to one or both parties involved (“Darling, I deeply and truly love you, but I’m rooting for the Ravens tomorrow.” “That’s it – the marriage is off!”:)). Yes, input would be welcomed to an extent, but it would be about the same extent as changing my religion.

Now, I’ll be the first to admit that the people who post to this board strike me as pretty exceptional, but the principal remains. Those of us who don’t want children are not freaks, short-sighted, or unfeminine. Yes, I realize you didn’t say that, but others have said or implied it. Quite frankly, your attitude comes across as we women don’t really know our own minds. We do. Like being homosexual, it might not fit society’s norms, but it is part of us. We’re also willing to accept the consequences if we’re wrong.

By the way, you keep making reference to attitudes changing with age. May I ask how old you are? Also, how do you feel about having children, and has that changed since you were a teenager?

CJ

108

I agree with you, I really do. I’d like to think that before anyone makes a commitment, they discuss with their spouse-to-be certain hot-button issues, including kids. And if you don’t want them at that time and later still don’t, you’ll already have discussed it and can proceed accordingly. I guess I’m thinking more of the spur-of-the-moment crowd, the ones who are not in any kind of relationship but who pretty much say, “That’s it, I’m getting them tied!” Those people don’t have anyone they’d need to talk about it with, and it would certainly be their decision alone. I’d hope that they thought about it a while before doing it, perhaps even researched it.

But sure, I guess if you’re in a marriage, you’ve probably already talked about kids.

I don’t know why you’d get that impression. I keep saying that the decision would certainly be the woman’s own decision to make. I never said she had to talk to anyone before making it, but I would like to think that the husband in the marriage might have some input. As I said up there ^ the issue would likely be discussed before marriage anyway. There’s a difference between saying some input might be helpful and saying that one has no mind of one’s own. A huge difference.

I’m 32. I have no idea how I feel about children. For the past decade-plus, I had been pretty set against it. I’m just plain not sure now.

109

Uhmm dantheman, getting your tubes tied is a a form of surgery requiring at least local anaesthesia, and not a cheap one at that. I’m also told it takes a few days to recover from. In other words, it’s a lot harder to do it as a “spur of the moment” thing than say, getting a tattoo.

CJ

110

Reminds me of the time my SIL reamed us out because we were considering stopping at one.

She practically told us that we owed it to our daughter to provide a sibling for her. Never mind the fact that my own sister had her tubes tied after the birth of her daughter, thus ensuring Only Child status, and another SIL is an only child. Yeah, families are wonderful. As the fourth child, I’m glad my parents didn’t stop at just one or two. But only children have been known to survive and even become useful members of society.

Keep your silly opinions to yourself, thenkyouveddymuch.

111

Jeepers, HAVING A KID as a permanent, irreversible life decision. If a woman in her mid-twenties decides she’s going to have a kid (as many of my friends and family members in that age range have have) nobody freaks out. Their gynecologists didn’t say, “You don’t know how you’ll feel about having kids ten years from now! You may regret this decision, and if you do, it will be difficult to reverse it!” So why is sterilization so different?

112

I don’t disagree with you at all. But my point is that one could make a spur of the moment decision on it, even though the procedure itself it a lot more intensive (and expensive).

113

I don’t know ANYONE who decided to be childfree on a spur of the moment… I don’t even know anyone else childless by choice aside from on this board, really. I think you are concerned about a group of people, dantheman, that probably don’t exist, at least not in sufficient numbers to be concerned about. Most people give this quite a bit of thought.

114

Brief Hijack: Trip…ler’s…Law?

115

They probably do, jinwicked; I bet most do, since it’s a pretty serious decision. Just sayin’ that one person earlier didn’ seem to have. Seem being the operative word.

116

Interesting.

Why is it that you think someone who is not in a relationship made a ‘spur of the moment’ decision?

I somehow doubt that ten years of knowing that I don’t ever want to have kids followed by the decision to have surgery to make sure that my decision is a reality is ‘spur of the moment’.

Although in your eyes, it must be, since I’m not in a relationship.

117

Oh good grief, catsix, please take the time to read the post. I specifically said I was thinking of the ones who were not in a relationship but were making a spur-of-the-moment decision. Why do you feel this includes you?

At no point did I say that all people who are not in a relationship make spur-of-the-moment decisions. Are you saying none ever do?

118

quote from DantheMan:

I’m going to refer you back to this:

I know that it isn’t about the money or education or material things that I could provide a child. And, if the Child Fairy were to visit and drop a kid in my apartment right now, I would be physically capable of changing diapers and feeding it and could probably even watch Seasame Street with it. However, I would absolutely resent that child. I would hate the fact that it intruded on my life. And that’s just a random child from the Child Fairy. I do know that there is no such thing as the Child Fairy. I know how kids happen–through unprotected sex, or by protection that fails. I have protected sex, but I can’t really control if that protection fails. And I have said previously that I cannot take hormonal birth control. It not only makes me a mental zombie, but it doesn’t stop the bleeding. I will bleed constantly until I stop taking the pills (and the hormones leave my system). My doctor won’t give me the IUD because she feels that there is a high risk of a perforated uterus with it. I understand that reason. Quite frankly, a perforated uterus doesn’t sound that fun. I’ve said that diaphrams aren’t effective and are easy to use incorrectly. So that leaves condoms and spermicide (actually, nope, can’t use spermicide…that caused a quite a few vaginal lesions for me) or sterilization. Sterilization is more effective at preventing kids. My doctor will not do one on me until I am older. I respect that. I’m sure in her career, she’s seen many people who change their minds later. Fine. When I don’t change my mind, and she sees that when I’m older, I’ll get it. I’m not running around changing doctors just to get what I want. Because a lot of doctors wouldn’t even give me the “wait a few years and I’ll do it” answer.

Now, I’ve also said that I really don’t deal well with children. Me dealing with children is more along the lines of icy civility rather than open friendliness. How I deal with children is not a good child rearing strategy. I’ve said that I fear abusing a child because I would always be near it. That’s true. If a pet misbehaves, you can give it a time out, or shut it in the bathroom until it behaves. You can leave it for a weekend away with some food and water and a place to urinate and defecate and it will be fine. You can’t do that with a kid. I’ve said that I don’t want the responsibility over another human live, and I definately don’t want that responsibility for 18 years. I know that I couldn’t handle having to be around someone 24/7 (or very close to it) for 5-6 years until it goes to school, 12+ years as it grows to maturity. That would drive me crazy. It would frustrate me that I couldn’t ever get away, and that would make me angry and abusive.

I also said that I would regret it. That’s the biggest reason that I don’t want to have a child. I would regret it. I also said this previously:

If I regret and resent having a child because I will ALWAYS wonder how my life would have been different or better, that child will know that it was somehow responsible. And having beared that burden, I don’t feel its fair to ever impart that onto something so young. That kid never asked for me as a parent, so why should I have that kind of power to ruin its outlook on life and take away its hope and faith? I couldn’t live with that responsibility, and that’s not a decision to be made on the spur of the moment. It takes a lot of introspection to know that you aren’t willing or ready to handle that kind of responsibility. It takes a lot to realize that you are that selfish or weak or whateverelse to not be able to handle a child. And it takes courage to say that. I know that I’m not ready or willing to have a kid (or ever will be). I know how I view kids, how I would regret and resent it, and I’ve said so. That may make me some sort of horrible evil psycobitch, but too bad. As I see it, the purpose of my life is to live it to the fullest. I’m going to define fullest. I define it to be without children. Without a little festering bundle of neediness and demands draining my time and energy away from me and my career or friends or pets or travels or writing or education or whatever else comes up that I decide would be fun and interesting to do.

The whole purpose of the rant was to say that you aren’t wrong if you decide not to have children. But apparently, because I am so extreme in my views of children, and admit freely to being the type of person that would be a horrible parent when given a child, I’m in the wrong for not wanting a kid. I’m just being spur of the moment with that kind of life decision, and am extreme in wanting a sterilization to prevent some innocent child from ever having to bear the brunt of the regret and resentment I would have for it. Wow. Would you really want me around your kid? You sure? I think not. Then I don’t think I’m wrong for saying that I shouldn’t have one of my own and don’t want one of my own.

(Disclaimer: If you are ready to have children and are willing to spend the time and energy to love and care for a child, then by all means, have one. You’re going to be a far better parent than I would ever be willing to be.)
sorry for the length of this post–I know I had a lot to say there

119

Interesting thread. Very interesting.

That being said, my $0.02: I am young, married, and childfree. Then-future-husband and I talked about having children before we were married and decided against it. We still feel that way, and I’m on Depo to prevent any accidents. However, I don’t care to get a tubal ligation. I want my options open, as I know that I am capable of changing my mind on this (I’m not saying anybody else could change their mind(s), just that I know I can). My family and friends are fine with the decision, and don’t hassle me (or if they make the mistake and do so, they learn better once I’ve had my say). I have a friend or two with a child or children, and they’re perfectly happy, but I’m not joining them. It’s not that I hate children (except for what Mr. Naz calls ‘Demon children’, and that’s more of a parenting issue), I will speak to them, play on occasion, protect them from getting hurt or take care of their boo-boos, and watch some of their television shows with them (at least, the ones I don’t find to be ridiculously stupid) if I must. I just don’t want the responsibility of having one of my own right now, that’s all. I’m enjoying my marriage, as well as childfree life. I’m not dead set against my eventually having a kid someday, maybe.

But I am currently working in a place where there also happen to be a great many Filipina women also in the employ. These women firmly believe in popping out children as soon as you are married. Hell, one of my co-workers told me a few weeks ago that to them, a title of respect to a woman isn’t “Ma’am”, it’s a Filipino word for “Mother”, “Mom”, or some such variation. And they will point out pregnant customers to me and tell me that I will, that I should be like that. It pisses me off, because it’s not their choice whether or not I should get pregnant. It’s mine and Mr. Naz’s (because I would most certainly discuss the matter with him before making a desicion). To me, their insistence that I should rush into what I don’t want right now is disrespectful, and all the more frustrating because they don’t get it when I say I’m not getting pregnant. Not to make light of serious health problems or infertility, but I’m seriously considering saying that I’m incapable of bearing a child next time they mention it, for no other reason than to get them off my back. I’ve just never brought myself to do it so far because I don’t want to lie, or make light of people who honestly do have these problems. If anyone has any suggestions (I loved the baby-doll-with-a-coconut-for-a-head suggestion, but I think it’d be inappropriate at work and I don’t care to go on a job hunt in the middle of a recession) on how to get word out to my cow-orkers :wink: that they should drop the subject with me, I’d be thrilled to hear it.

120

ghandi, I think all of your reasons are perfectly good, not to mention responsible (despite what I may have said or implied earlier). There are a lot of people who have kids who just plain aren’t ready for them, but they figure - as has been said in this thread - that having the kids will change them in such a way as to make them ready (if that makes sense). Anyway, there are probably a lot who think they’re ready, even if they’re not.

I guess that’s worse than thinking one is not ready, even if one is - but one would know one’s one body and life the best.

With your situation, it looks like you’re not ready for the responsibility and have medical issues. It’s one thing to decide not to have kids because you simply don’t want them, and it’s another to decide this because doing so would be detrimental to your own health. I respect that. As you said, the birth control possibilities are limited, especially for you.

This is an interesting quote. I might have just misunderstood you previously, but I didn’t get the impression that you were willing to wait. My apologies.

Are you around kids much now? You said that you fear abusing a child because you would always be near it. This seems a bit extreme to me - is this really how it is? If you’re not around kids all that much and never plan to be, I guess it’s never going to be a problem.

The more I look at your post, the more I am struck by the tone of responsibility. Yes, your reasons are selfish ones, but that’s not always a bad thing. You feel it would be best for all concerned if you didn’t have kids; who can’t respect that? You say that you wouldn’t want to have a kid whom you’d resent, and who would presumably resent you right back. That to me is better than saying you’ll have a kid and will force yourself not to resent it.