He’s helping support his ex wife? It’s not alimony? Holy shit!
He stops it or it’s over. Beginning tomorrow. That’s fucking ridiculous. The guy needs some sort of intervention to get the message, perhaps.
The ride thing - look, if SHE WASN’T STILL MOOCHING OFF HIM, sure, nothing wrong with that. “Hey John, it’s Mary. Christ, the weather is crazy and I’m socked in here. Could you give me a lift in the SUV? I’ll give you a few bucks for gas.” But that isn’t the situation, is it? She’s a user. Every “favor” encourages her.
The solution is: No contact. He cuts her off, or else this problem will not be solved. It’s that simple.
Maybe you’re right. I thought he was over his first marriage. When we were dating, he said that Ex and him were still friends. Struck me as kinda weird, but my background is rather warped so I just accepted it.
Let me offer a slightly different perspective. Not that anyone is wrong, per se, but it makes a difference in how Mouse Maven goes about dealing with the incident.
From everything Mouse Maven has had to say about Mouse Spouse, he’s One of the Nice Guys – but an invertebrate. That is, he never evolved a backbone. Ex is a classic manipulator – always having problems and the help she needs, she knows she can count on MS (and MM) to provide. In short, she’s a dependency manipulator, he’s a co-dependent, and MM is consenting to this rather than make an issue. MS does not need to be given ultimata by MM; what he needs, is to be brought to realize how he’s being used, how much it’s bothering MM (which you do not do by making demands and ultimata or bitching to him about her, but rather by talking about your own feelings at allowing yourself and the husband you love to be used on an ongoing basis by her). Then, once he’s got his head straightened out, they need to decide together how to wean Ex – and rapidly – and MM may need to supply the moral strength he will need to draw on, as he is obviously (from what I’ve gotten from MM’s posts, at least) one of those sweetheart guys who can be “played” by a manipulatrix for her own benefit.
I agree with Polycarp that there’s an awful lot of ultimatum-y anger here. I mean, basically, what mouse_spouse is doing is being a good person. Now, obviously, the situation needs to change, but y’all are suggesting a “her or me” stance as if he were still sleeping with this woman.
Oh boy. I thought I’d rant and this thread would fade away.
Taking a few deep breaths and actually thinking for a little while, it dawned on me why I got so irritated.
Polycarp and Max are right, this is not the time for ultimatums. I’ve been really stressed and depressed over the past few months (work worries, academic anxieties, etc.), so our relationship has been strained as well. My doctor was raised the dose of my antidepressents, so our love life has dried up. (Any viagra for women yet?) Now, the ex-wife calls out of the blue and I feel pissed and threatened.
I strongly disagree that what mouse_spouse is doing is “being a good person.” What he’s doing is being a doormat, a codependent enabler, and hugely fucking disrespectful of his wife and their relationship.
Unless the Mouse household is extremely well off giving away money is not being a good person, giving someone a ride when they are in a bad situation on the other hand is pretty decent of him and you shouldn’t have yelled at him not go. The problem is you are as much a doormat as he is for putting up with this, this shouldn’t be about “me or her” it should be about “what the fuck is wrong with you??”. Theres no reason why you should wait until February for your husband to quit being a dumbass.
Unfortunately, this probably should have been addressed much earlier in the relationship instead of it coming to a head now. He needs to tell the ex and everyone involved with her that there can be no more contact as of today.
I feel slightly sorry for mouse_spouse.
He still has some sympathy for a woman he was married to … but that relationship has ended.
It was sweet of him to give her money … but once a boy-friend appears, the finances can be left to the new bloke.
As others have said, it would be charitable to give an ex-wife a ride … if there wasn’t a regular pattern of demanding help.
Perhaps mouse_spouse could be asked to stop helping his ex for a while ‘to let the new couple get used to standing on their own feet’, and reassured that once the dependency is broken, there could be the odd lift or such small favour.
A drive to Blackhawk would not have been good, and likely not even possible, last night. A drive to Blackhawk to pick up an ex who is safe, and not only safe, but at a hotel? I’m with Mouse on this, 100%. I don’t know if I would have done it for an actual wife. Better we both be safe separately than stuck in the middle of nowhere together.
Don’t mean to attack you, Max, but this is a peeve of mine - he is NOT being a good person. A good person doesn’t enable a manipulator and user like his ex, and make his wife feel threatened, upset, unlistened-to; basically un-loved and insecure. My husband and I went through a rough patch a while back, with him not realizing how much he was flirting online, and when he realized (when we both did, actually), his response was, “This is hurting you, so it stops NOW.” That’s what a good person does.
I feel for ya, Mouse. I’m sure you don’t want to end your marriage over this, but your husband does need to stop putting his ex ahead of his marriage (which is exactly what he’s doing, which is why it feels so bad to you). I also suggest you talk to a counsellor; it’s easy for us to all say put your foot down, but things are rarely that simple in real life. A counsellor should have some better ideas than put up with it or end the marriage.
Playing devil’s advocate… I can really sympathize with Mouse_Spouse. When my ex-left (we co-habitated but were never married), I would help whenever she asked for it, without hesitation. It can be really hard after a major break-up/divorce to remind yourself that you are not responsible for your ex anymore.
It took me a good long time to let her screw up her own life, while reminding myself she is NOT my family anymore and she is NOT my responsibility. When you’ve made a vow that it’s forever, it can be really tough to adapt that way. Luckily, I had friends that to say just that: “Cellphone, she is not your responsibility anymore!” and I learned how to say “No.” She is not my family anymore and I owe her nothing. (I’m friends with almost all my exes and none would dare try to exploit me the way this one tried to).
You don’t need an ultimatum, you just have to consistently and firmly remind him “She’s not your responsibility anymore.” And if he’s wracked with guilt about it, tell him he’s enabling her helplessness and he needs to take a “tough love” approach. If he still can’t find the stones to stop bailing her out, then you’ve really got to recommend counselling or something. People can’t take advantage of you unless you let them.
Cellphone, are you married, or seriously involved? Were you when this post break-up stuff was going on? BIG difference if you weren’t. Really Big. Big Big. Oh Andy, Big ain’t the word for it!
Look, I get what you (and the others who made similar comments) are saying – the spouse is definitely taking the absolute wrong approach to handling his ex, and it is hurting his marriage. Just about everyone in the thread agrees with that. But I don’t understand why it’s harmful to acknowledge, particularly to Mouse_Maven, that her husband is doing this out of an attempt to be a good person and help someone out. Yes, he’s being manipulated into it. Yes, he’s hurting his wife. I don’t think that’s in dispute. But I feel like you’re slapping down the few people in the thread who are pointing out that he’s doing because he THINKS its the right thing to do for his ex.
To me, this sort of attitude is tantamount to saying he’s being a BAD person because he’s screwing up. And while some may think I’m just nitpicking over language, I actually think his intentions are a fairly large factor in how Mouse_Maven approaches him and tries to work it out with him. Mouse, I do sincerely hope you’re able to help him come to his senses and get back to focusing on what should be his priorities – you and his current marriage. Good luck.
There’s a big difference, though. Mouse_spouse is doing favors for someone. Why does one do favors? Because (presumably) one at some level has a big heart, has caring, has empathy, is a good person. Now, doing those favors has a bad side effect and thus, when viewed holistically, is quite possibly the wrong choice for any number of reasons. But that’s HUGELY different from flirting. Flirting is a purely selfish recreational activity. Helping out someone you care about (and I see nothing wrong with caring, lower-case-c, about an ex) is an entirely different kettle of fish from flirting with strangers on the internet.
To restate, I’m not saying mouse_spouse is blameless or “doing the right thing” here. I’m saying that mouse_spouse seems to be a decent, caring, person. Which are GOOD things. But those good things about him are leading him into a bad situation. So, don’t hate either the sin or the sinner. Hate the situation the sinner is in. Or something like that.
I just don’t understand reactions like this:
at all. Mouse_spouse is too helpful towards an ex, but NOT (as far as we can tell) even remotely likely to be cheating, or flirting, or spending-too-much-time with, but just being too giving; and he should be immediately divorced if this behavior doesn’t stop? WTF?
You and Max are right - it would have been better for me to say his actions aren’t good, not that he’s not good (here on The Dope, I should have remembered "attack the post, not the poster ). That I’ll stand by - his actions aren’t helping anybody, not even the ex.
I do agree that his intentions are important, too. I don’t think he’s trying to hurt Mouse Maven; maybe he just doesn’t get how much his actions hurt his wife and his marriage. I guess it’s Mouse’s job to get it through to him somehow.
Max, I sense from what you write that you too, are a good person, and maybe I did react a bit too strongly with the “highway” reply, but I am putting myself in Mouse_Maven’s place, and from what I read, this isn’t just a one-time occurence, and her SO is going to have to make a choice.
Denver is experienced the 4th worst blizzard ever recorded. Just heard that on the news as I was opening this thread. (The OP lists CO as her location.)
). That I’ll stand by - his actions aren’t helping anybody, not even the ex.