For the record I have never had a serious (or even sort of serious)violation of trust. I had an exhusband that started doing drugs after an accident caused him to be out of work for too long.
I don’t want a list of rules, don’t exaggerate please.
I questioned your term level of trust because it seemed like you didn’t completely trust her… it was only to a certain level. Maybe I misunderstood.
Geobabe… so you do all of your learning about each other from mistakes and by arguments like Dog does as opposed to trying to foresee potential conflicts and attempting to nip them in the bud?
‘Bill, everything I said to Dog he has told me on another board. I don’t think he took offense.’
This is true. I didn’t take offense.
The pattern however has been:
I complement my wife, you sees this as romantic on my part and must believe she is the big reason for our success. I agree.
I take some credit, you view this as egotistical. I also agree. I do take great pride in our relationship. That is one of the reasons it works. The charge of ego is valid, but you do forget that the only reason you are aware of my mistakes, is that I possessed the humility to admit them.
I think I understand… I’m wondering if we are having this difficulty because we are think of boundaries differently.
When you guys first got together and something happened… like he kept coming to pick you up late without calling. After a while, you got pissed and you ended up in a little argument. You told him that it’s really annoying you that he is not calling when he’s running very late (please, this is just a simple example). You have just set your boundaries. You expect him to call you when he’s running very late.
So to me, boundaries don’t equal rules. Sorry for any miscommunication here.
I don’t want a list of rules, don’t exaggerate please.’
‘so you do all of your learning about each other from mistakes and by arguments like Dog does as opposed to trying to foresee potential conflicts and attempting to nip them in the bud?’
So how do you nip things in the bud without setting rules or boundaries or whatever you want to call them.
No, we do all our learning about each other from spending time together and talking to each other. Why do you assume it all has to be negative? He and I have had many, many conversations about our past experiences and current things going on, and from that we’ve learned about each other’s personalities and values.
Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you found out he was dealing drugs. I must have mis-read it when you said
**THAT is what I would call a serious violation of trust, if I found out my spouse was doing that behind my back like that. One that would cause me great pain, and cause me to doubt my ability to fully trust someone for a while. It may make me afraid to trust someone since I had been burned. Until I healed. And matured.
This happened to me, (not drugs, another thing, with a previous wife).
Geobabe-
you hit it.
People say they learn from mistakes. When in reality this isn’t really the case. Most people generally learn and grow from their successes (in our case, spending time with our partner, which is mostly positive) and other people’s mistakes. Except for the really big ones, we tend to rationalize our own problems.
“No, we do all our learning about each other from spending time together and talking to each other” This is exactly what we’re doing so why are you guys giving me grief?
I’m not being negative. Dog said that it was how he learned a lot about his wife, by dealing with actual conflicts instead of trying to aviod them (ie learning from mistakes). I agreed that it worked but that some things can be “nipped in the bud” by doing what I quoted last paragraph.
Somehow I think we are all agreeing for the most part but we’re bogged down in definitions.
I didn’t say I trusted my exhusband at the end but it was due to a serious drug problem which I sort of used to excuse his behavior.
Well Tster, I wasn’t saying I need help getting the Studmuffin hard, If so he certainly wouldn’t merit the name Studmuffin and probably also wouldn’t stick around long as being my bf…we were talking about bachelor parties. If he wants to go to one or have one and happens to come home to me with a woody, I’ll certainly be happy to take care of him. The red dress story was a true one…he and his brother went out one night and he brought the result home to me where I was home being a good girl alone. I thought it was sweet…he coulda’ took her home I have NO DOUBT. But he didn’t. Things like that make me trust him more. His honesty makes me respect him more. You know that is a lot of it, honesty and respect.
'Dog said that it was how he learned a lot about his wife, by dealing with actual conflicts instead of trying to aviod them (ie learning from mistakes). ’
Not quite true. We have had conflicts, for sure. What I learned mostly about my wife, and she of me, is how we are so compatible, apparently much like Uncle Bill and Geobabe. Far more positive than negative. I said many times on the other board that a big part of our success is that we focus on the positive and forgive the negative. You seem to miss the positive part.
back to bpartys. in the interest of complete disclosure. I was one of the people who had the negative stories about bparties from the other board. witnessed one ‘Relationship Changing Event’.
Sort of soured me on them. The limited amount of fun they were made them seem less than worth it.
I agree… when my bf had a playboy out in his restroom the first time I went to his house… I respected that. He wasn’t dishonest by hiding it.
When he told me he went to the nude beach a few times a year, I really really respected that. He could have not told me since it didn’t happen often or he could have waited until we were together a long time… but he was honest up front.
See… I’m learning just like you guys.
I personally don’t want a leftover hard-on… if it makes me jealous in that way, then I am. But I have no problems with his female friends or his free time so I’m not jealous in that way.
Because you seemed to have been telling us throughout this thread that you felt you needed to establish with your BF exactly how he would act in a particular situation, and many of us took that to mean a lack of trust, because when you know someone, you can reasonably anticipate how they will act in a particular situation without having to have it spelled out in advance.
Go back and read your post to me. You extrapolated Dog’s post to mean that other couples who have learned about each other have only done so through problems and conflicts. What I am saying is that is not always the case.
UncleBill told me the story about the Thai hooker while we were dating, and I thought, this guy is an honorable man. He has values that I agree with. I like that. It’s through conversations like that that I learned that I can trust him, and it has been reinforced by observing his behavior in other situations.
Yes, things have come up where I have needed to express to him that something made me upset or uncomfortable. However, I didn’t need to establish boundaries before I was able to trust him. That’s where I think you’ve got it backwards. It’s because I trusted him that I knew that once I told him that something bothered me, he wouldn’t do it again. And more importantly, everything that has come up has been extremely minor, certainly not on the level of needing to talk to him about how he’ll behave in a strip club.
'UncleBill told me the story about the Thai hooker while we were dating, and I thought, this guy is an honorable man. ’
Man, that move scores big. I can see why. Men should substitute this experience for the typical bparty. Would solve many issues on this discussion.
“exactly how he would act in a particular situation”
I never said EXACTLY. Of course that would ridiculous.
“You extrapolated Dog’s post to mean that other couples who have learned about each other have only done so through problems and conflicts”
I never said ONLY. I was under the impression that he thought that it was the BEST way to learn about each other.
“Yes, things have come up where I have needed to express to him that something made me upset or uncomfortable”
Exactly. That’s ALL I’m trying to say. Some things you think are minor I put more importance on & I’M SURE that some things you think are important I think are extremely minor.
“It’s because I trusted him that I knew that once I told him that something bothered me, he wouldn’t do it again.”
I have said this same exact thing. You just need to communicate when something bothers you… minor or major (because the minor things frequently grow to major things).
By the way, sorry for my lazy quotes. To me, its easier this way.
I don’t want to appear to be disrespectful. However, IMHO you seem to have some issues with the sexual aspect of the activities in which your boyfriend participates.
I am pleased to learn that you were open to new experiences with him, most notbaly the “nudist” thing.
A link to the previous thread where Tster explores this topic:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=168694
However, as other dopers pointed out in that thread, perhaps you are not comfortable with the requests your boyfriend makes of you, nor are you comfortable with the things he likes to do (for whatever reason he likes to do them).
You say you want to change, to learn, to accept new experiences.
It’s admirable that you have invested in your relationship with him (2+years, IIRC). My only question, after reading your responses in this thread and in the one I linked to, is are you two truly compatible?
It seems to me that you sexualize (sorry if this is not the best way to describe my observation) these activities. Several people have said that the nudist beach thing and the stripper thing are not necessarily sexual in nature. This, of course, is more true for going to a nude beach/camp.
But, you seem to not be able to see this perspective, which is a perfectly valid thing to do. After all, these are your feelings and opinions. You have a right to them, even if others disagree. However, if you keep comfronting situations that clearly make you uncomfortable, then perhaps you simply are not suited to be with that person.
I say this because I am trying to understand why you look at these situations in the extreme. A bachelor party with strippers (which can be a questionable activity, as others have described) in your mind (at least in what you are writing) becomes a situation where your man is wrestling with a naked woman.
Also, you tend to dismiss outright the other perspectives offered if they are not similar to yours. I don’t really think of that type of thing as being conducive to “learning” or “growing.” In fact, you seem to be a bit testy about it. The thing is, you may have to confront the possibility that just because you disagree with a certain perspective, your reaction does not make that perspective wrong.
It would be interesting to hear/read what your boyfriend’s feelings about strippers, bachelor parties, etc. is.
Anyway, all this is all IMHO. Good luck on your journey.
I must say, first of all, that I consider a nude beach/club sexless and a strip club very sex-full. My bf thinks that strip clubs are innocent and that I shouldn’t be bothered by them but he tries to understand me and respects how I feel. I don’t equate a strip club to mud-wrestling. I was just trying to explain what would bother me AT a strip club, as opposed to him watching strippers.
I have brought up ALL of these issues to my bf and we have discussed compatibility. After having people tell me we might have problems, I was a bit worried and thought we should discuss it. We did in depth. He said that this issue is kind of silly because neither one of us are that extreme about it. He said that even if I told him I never want him to go to a strip club again (which I would never do), that those things don’t matter to him more than all of my other great qualities. That if differing opinions about strippers of all things (and this whole issue) are enough to break apart a couple, then they didn’t have enough glue to hold them together to begin with. There are way too many truly important things in life, and this issue is really not one of them, at least not to us. Don’t think I didn’t let him know that I was willing to let him go if my opinions on this were too different from his.
So, if going to strip clubs or viewing porn or actively getting turned on by others on a regular basis is REALLY important to you, then I would not be the girl for you, without a doubt.
Dog, if you are still there I will ask you a question. When I was at the other board, as you know, I defended the bachelor’s right to a party. I told everyone that I trusted him completely and that I would never tell him he couldn’t have one (that would be mean, I think). YOU are the one that convinced me that perhaps I shouldn’t just turn a blind eye to it when the time comes. That I SHOULD be worried. You are the one that caused me to post this message on this board and I have been given incredible grief over this niggling doubt in my mind from this mostly male group. In fact, I have been called very horrible names in the last few days. So, after reading this board, do you still hold to all you said before? That I should be concerned?
Zhen… thanks a LOT for the link. It was really interesting to read this now, after I went. It proves to me that I am not controlling and excessively jealous.
We had a BALL. We spent the whole time watching everyone, young, old, big, little, beautiful & ugly & none of it bothered me.
Also, note that after we got back, he admitted that he was a little jealous whenever a guy walked by and looked at me. He said he would stare at the other guy as he walked by, keeping eye contact, so he wouldn’t look down at me (fully naked, on the beach… also walking around that way). I never thought I could do it. I really never thought I’d enjoy it. My bf really was impressed with my willingness to search my feelings (like I’m doing on this board).
Are you getting e-mails calling you horrible names? This thread has posts that may describe your perceived actions as controlling, untrusting, “broad brushing”, may say you are not getting the point, and that you discount information from males while accepting the same information from females, you may sexualize things too much, and other comments about your posts, but I have not seen you called a Skank or a Whore. Calling someone a Skank or a Whore (when they are not Skanks or Whores) is a very mean thing to do. That is calling someone a name.
Or do you have a broader definition of “name calling” than the rest of us?
We have a line between attacking the post and attacking the poster in this forum.