First, the word you’re looking for is “sense.” Second, I said “fast,” not “slut.” Third, if you think modern women can choose to wear anything without a second thought to societal standards, you are dreaming. She may be able to wear pants, but they can’t be too tight and they can’t be too short. They still must be appropriate to the occasion, and on some occasions, in some circles, pants are not appropriate.
People convey information through dress; they always have and they always will. It’s not a societal failing, it’s a recognition of how fluent we are in evaluating the world we live in, and the people we share it with. So you may look forward to that sweet, sweet day of freedom when you won’t be judged a fruitcake for wearing nothing but a tutu and a pair of tube socks, but that doesn’t really support your condemnation of the rest of us for both understanding the value of dressing appropriately and chosing to do so.
Ahh and that is admirable and luadable is it? These random very poor black people spending money on a suit to be worn once a year? It would be such a tragedy if societal norms changed so that they could spend even that 20 bucks towards nessecities or a child’s education. Because as you prove respect only exists in the clothes you wear, not in your heart or character.
I don’t condemn you for understanding it.
I condemn you for propagating it. I condemn you for for standing so proudly behind the banner of judging people by clothes rather than character, I condemn you for helping to cause the continuation of the “style over substance” crap that hurts this world.
But adults do *need *a nice outfit specifically for funerals, weddings and other special occasions. It’s not like funeral and weddings are cosmic events that only take place every 500 years. They’re a normal, at least semi-regular part of adult life. If you have the means (and as folks have said, it don’t take a lot of means) to wear an appropriate outfit and you choose not to, that says something about you.
I’m 30. **HazelNutCoffee **and Zsofia are a few years younger than I am. There are many, many people our age who would never dream of wearing casual clothes to a funeral. Don’t try to make this a generational thing.
Why can’t you see, Wolfman, that dressing up is showing respect from the heart?
It’s hard for me to participate in this type of thread, but since you’re so willfully not listening, perhaps a personal story from a fellow Doper might help you see the light: When I was 29 years old, I gave birth to my first child, a daughter, who subsequently died eight months later following surgery to repair a heart defect. (This was a number of years ago.)
Many of our friends and acquaintances were our age, or younger (old older). The funeral was in the city 70 miles from where we lived. It was on New Year’s Eve (in the early morning). Many, many people made this trip, dressed in suits, ties, nice dresses and otherwise appropriate clothing. Did they all have suits? No, some (if I can recall correctly) merely wore slacks, a dress shirt and tie.
It touched me so much that they would come to this funeral, to be there for us, and to arrive on time and dressed in a respectful manner! It means something, wolfman, whether you want it to or not.
I agree…I had the same thought as you…"the reason you need a nice outfit is for funerals!
I’m a Gen Xer, and my parents are “Silent Generation” depression babies. Talk about a generation gap. My dad wore 3 piece suits to the office, and I wear jeans and flip-flops if I want to. I am all for being casual, and if I never had to wear anything but jeans, I would be thrilled. But even I understand that there are certain occasions that just call for some extra effort.
If we can change the age from 18 in the original post that upset me, as I took it as a personal insult, to 23 or 24, when one graduates from college, I can begrudgingly agree that not having formal attire makes a strong argument for one being a “loser”. But, I still think that semi-formal is okay for a funeral. Og forbid, if I had to go to a funeral tomorrow, I wouldn’t wear my suit, because it needs to be drycleaned.
My argument wasn’t for casual clothes. Tshirt? No way. A full suit or sport coat and tie? Not necessary. I wasn’t trying to make it a generation thing, and perhaps I should have left Gen X out of it. But there are still plenty of Gen Ys that don’t have or necessarily need a suit, which was my point. I just used the generation as an age cuttoff; people in Gen Y may not have yet had a reason to get a suit yet.
ETA:
I disagree. Semi-formal works just fine for anybody who is still in school, IMHO.
I’m almost postitive “JUDGE PEOPLE BY CLOTHES RATHER THAN CHARACTER” is not what my personal banner says. :rolleyes: And I may in fact hurt the world at the end of a given day, but this isn’t how.
The fact is that people DO just one another by appearance to some degree. It’s not a good thing or a bad thing, necessarily; it’s a value-neutral fact. Thus it has ever been since we crawled out of the cave and attempted to determine if Thag, standing over there, was likely to greet us in friendship, drag us off by our hair, or run us through with his spear. And thus it ever will be, because we evaluate everything, not just people, by how they appear to us. I’m not elevating style over substance to be aware of that and taking it into account in how I dress and conduct myself. Frankly, people who refuse to acknowledge not just the importance but even the mere existence of visual cues strike me as not very smart.
I have never denied the existence of those visual cues, And the imporance of them is obvious and regrettable, and one of the last acceptable and defended predjudices of class. They are used to claim personal superiority, and to seperate the “lower people” from the proper people.
I just wish people in this thread would say to themselves “I believe that I can judge the intentions and heart of a man based on his clothes” until they see how ridiculous it is.
Oh, sure, but it kind of depends on what your idea of semi-formal is. I think that even a student can swing a nice pair of slacks, a button-down shirt, and a tie.
I agree, a suit is nice for a funeral or a wedding. A suit is not necessary. However, old jeans and a ripped concert t-shirt…
Somewhere in between there is a line - that line is going to depend on age, region, socio-economic class. Not sure how well pastel colored polos referenced in the OP would go over in my father’s family’s world. They have collars - and I’ve no doubt white polos or dark polos would be fine - its the pastel…
Fair enough. I don’t expect most college students to own a suit. To me, semi-formal would be a button-down shirt with a tie. A polo shirt and Dockers would be casual.
American society as a whole is increasingly casual. I’ve seen people in church dressed like they’re going to the mall, and although no funeral I’ve attended has been graced by folks in torn jeans and Twisted Sister T-shirts, that may just be the company I keep.
I would never attend a funeral except in a dark suit or sportcoat, white or dark blue shirt, and dark tie. I’m old-fashioned that way.
They might be used that way by you, but you haven’t demonstrated that’s how they are used by most people. I dress appopriately to the occasion as a sign of respect to my hosts. As an American, I was raised to believe that all people are created equal and for that reason, the idea of “class” as a concept rarely even enters my head – I just don’t think about people in those terms. If you dress as a slob, I don’t see you as a being poor or working-class or representative of any other social group; I just see one individual slob. I find it fascinating that you, who would attribute such almost feudal ideas to those who dress appropriately, are the ONLY person in this thread who sees his fellow men and women in terms of “class” and “superiority” and who is “lower people” and who are “proper people.” YOU are the only example in this thread of what you assert you deplore: The person who is preoccupied with class and superiority and how we determine it. The only person freighting a suit with that much baggage is you.
I’m sure a lot of them did. The point was, how did they all just happen to wear pink? Did they communicate beforehand and say let’s all wear pink? Or was it spontaneous? No. Somebody told two friends, who told two friends, and so on, and so on!
And if it had been a bad idea, as in "Let’s all wear Amy Winehouse costumes, because [the deceased] sure liked Amy!, one hopes some common sense would have intervened.
Point being, if one wears something other than conservative clothes to a funeral, one *should have some idea * that the pink/Hawaiian/dominatrix/Daisy Dukes one plans are in the ballpark.