Evil Dead Mafia II - Teaser and Sign-Ups [Game On!]

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3061

Indeed. However, with the day running down I have to say I’ve changed my mind, regardless. I’m too much leaning to OAOW being scum. Besides the things Mrs McGinty brings up (of which I think the choice to watch NAF is probably even more suggestive than the choice not to out Tom Scud), there is also that first instinct from way back on day one that caused me to vote for him then. The fact that the only person other than me to find him opportunistic in a scummy way then was the serial killer doesn’t invalidate the observation. It’s good enough, IMO.

And if I understand correctly, I can keep Mrs McGinty on the hook for keeping me alive for two more nights, anyway, regardless of what Natlaw has left. I don’t feel like letting OAOW live for a couple more days in the meantime.

vote: OAOW

3062

Vote Total Lost

Got your attention now? Once again I’ll ask.

How would Texcat have KNOWN that I didn’t block her when I said that I did? Or How would Texcat have KNOWN that I blocked Hal when I said that I blocked her?

You claim to be vanilla town with the tacked on ability to search for the book of the dead. Are you familiar with “Army of Darkness”? When the book gets stolen, Evil Ash is awakened to search for it. We have a claim Orginal Recipe Ash, it stands to reason that we’d also have an Evil Ash. And, what powers would Evil Ash possess?

3063

I hate it when I mean to hit"go advanced" but hit quick reply instead!

I wanted to add that I just don’t have enough on anyone else to cast a vote. The only damning bit of evidence on OAOW is keeping the book holder under his hat for longer than some wanted. That could just be a different play style. I agree he should have at least breadcrumbed it, but I also think that it was important to keep quiet to not out himself as a power role.

All I got against Texcat and Hal is no deaths during the nights I blocked them. But, with two other potential protection roles, it’s just as likely that the victims were protected as teh killers blocked. Who knows? maybe it was both. Or maybe it was neither. Regardless, it’s not enough to make a case.

But, Total Lost’s reactions to my posts and his persistent ignoring of key points is pinging my scumdar. He seems to be picking through my posts and answering the parts he can and ignoring the parts he cant’.

3064

You Protected Normal and Stanislaus Night before Last (Night 5?). I find it perfectly plausible that Scum would have targeted one or the other of them. However, I’m with you that there’s a good chance brewha prevented a death last Night.

[QUOTE=Natlaw]
Therefore, Oy!'s plan to confirm your power is useless. 1) Trust OaOW that youcan block or 2) Trust that I protected you last Night protect which makes it very unlikely you are scum with the no kill*. To a a 3) trust Oy that you can blocked adds not much usefull to 1 and 2. For the record I don’t see a reason for a scum OaOW to lie about if he was blocked or not.
Also assuming two scum Oy!'s pan is very pro-scum because they can choose to let another kill if they know the first will be blocked.
[/QUOTE]

I agree that if I believe OaOW (about being Blocked, that is), I believe brewha. Peeker was dead by Night Two, and I doubt Scum had another blocker. I’m not seeing how believing you Protected brewha last Night makes it very unlikely that he is Scum. He could have tried to Kill whether you Protected him or not. Brewha just doesn’t seem as likely a Scum target last Night as Normal or OaOW or you. On the other hand, apparently you thought him the likeliest target, since you Protected him, so maybe I’m all wet.

Verifying that brewha can block is tantamount to confirming him as town. It’s a useful piece of information. Of course, it can only work if you trust me to be Town, but, seriously, do you really think I’m not? I’ve been upfront and straightforward from Day One, and nothing whatsoever has happened that would cast any of my claimed Actions into question, while Drain has solidly confirmed that I passed her the Flower. I’ll be the first to admit that I haven’t been terribly effective Town, but confirming (or not) brewha is one useful thing I could do. Yes, there are potential downsides, particularly if your talismans are running low. But I don’t think the idea of establishing brewha’s ability to Block pretty conclusively is wholly without Town merit.

[QUOTE=Natlaw]
*) They are too far behind to choose not to kill in my view although having an investigator around who can watch after the fact makes it very dangerous.

Next: I read the Alien PM as that she could impregnate only one at the time so there is no worry there and if there were scum take priority.
[/QUOTE]

The Alien PM is highly ambiguous. But I agree Scum takes priority, because if there are Alien implantations, they must be in either Total Lost or Nanook or both.

And Total, I’m not seeing this fixation on TexCat’s vanilla-ness. Oredigger claimed to be vanilla, Nanook claimed to be vanilla, Suburban claimed to be vanilla. Just because you’re vanilla plus doesn’t mean that every vanilla player is plus. I agree it’s not a bad idea to look at claimed vanilla players for potential Scum, but I’m not sure why TexCat stands out to you more than Nanook.

And Normal Phase is totally confirmed.

3065

And Nanook has totally disappeared, by the way – not “good” sign, given the game state.

Brewha, can you possibly explain your case against Total Lost once more, with small words and links if possible? I am having such a hard time concentrating right now, I need the help.

Current game state as far as I’m concerned:

Me – town
Natlaw – I believe him to be town. OAOW vouches for his claimed role of voodoo priestess, but even if OAOW is scum, there is still the fact that Natlaw is the only known “fulltime” protector in the game. For a 30 player game to have none would be odd. On top of that, there’s his behavior – at least as of a few games ago, he had a major problem playing scum, and there’s no sign of that here.
brewha – I believe him to be town, because of the Hal thing. I’ve never known scum to set up something so convoluted as he did there.
Mahaloth – given nature and confirmed timing of his power usage, I believe him to be town.

After that come:
Drain Bead – nature of claimed power usage should make her all but confirmed in my mind, but I can’t help myself; she still pings. Partially because of the eagerness in voting Texcat today, but that only applies if OAOW is in fact scum.
Oy – really should not be scum, and has been fairly solid lately, but I still can’t quite shake the “got recruited somewhere” thought I had a couple of weeks ago
lilflower – confirmed investigation on Total Lost at the time she said it happened.

After that:
Texcat – appears to be the main alternative to OAOW today, which could say good things for her if OAOW is scum. Drop her down a category if he isn’t.
Mrs McGinty – decent analysis lately, though I still have some suspicions. Power still completely unproven, but he is WIDE open to my ability and must know that.
Total Lost – claimed by lilflower as non-Deadite, so could only be a godfather sort really, which gives her a leg up over most others. Should probably be ranked higher, but I’m too lazy to edit.
USCDiver – had that nice case against peeker, and reaction of other scum that day (Telcontar, Astral) didn’t look especially like they were aware of a bussing going on, to my memory, though the whole Day (as our only meaningful scum lynch) is crying out for a second look. Also, his claim is an overlap, and I haven’t seen him around much lately.

And the rest:
Nanook-- evaporated after the mass claim
OAOW – I swear inside my head I’m all over the place on him – I keep thinking of excuses for the specific actions I find suspicious. It’s nice being confirmed so I can indulge myself by saying so. I don’t think my vote is moving though.

Am I missing anyone?

3066

Oh, Hal – put him somewhere near the bottom. His claim is not yet proven (though it is testable) and would be easy to fake. Other than that I don’t really have a read on him. One bad ping early that I never mentioned, nothing else.

3067

The only scenario where I see brewha as scum is if they decided not to kill at all. If they did kill then either brewha blocked it so isn’t scum or I protected against it and scum targeted brewha.

We’re currently 12 town or 2 scum, maybe 11-3. Even if we confirm brewha more (in my eyes his confirmed enough already) scum needs plenty of kills yet to win. So using his block to stop the kill and possible identify the killer is more useful.

Confimation of your power does not confirm your alignment and scum doctor have used that tactic before (protect town on purpose to generate godd will). Yes, the timing of you claim feels more town to me than not, your actions on their own not so much.

Since we do seem to have a big lead I’ll
Vote One and Only Wanderers
-Not pushing Tom Scud at all except for a ‘having an epic read?’
-His power overlaps with those of Hal Briston, Oy! and Normal Phase (perhaps Rysto even)
-Normal Phase plan works with McGinty as well (note to NP: it won’t keep you alive but OaOW should see the attacker while McGinty would shoot him)
-If he does flip town Hal Briston does look bad (possible block, overlapping powers, his power any scum could fake)

@Hal Briston: yes, that list missing all claims from Day Five (maybe more)
@NP (again): “voodoo priestess” wut?! I’m a witchdoctor of the male kind!

3068

Yeah, I still don’t understand the connection between Normal’s plan and voting me, but whatever…since it now appears Normal has changed her mind.

Vote: OAOW
Mrs. McG presented the case well. Additionally I think the town has too many investigators and OAOW is the most suspicious of the bunch. His PM was not specific about the use of his powers, when storyteller was very specific in the other PMs.

3069

I wouldn’t call myself particularly eager to vote TexCat, and I consider that especially unfair given the fact that my vote for TexCat was predicated almost entirely upon your idea, which you have now abandoned.

I feel that it’s entirely possible that they are both Scum.

3070

It wasn’t necessarily that I was voting for you, as much as I was voting for someone who was not OAOW, and who also had circumstantial evidence of scumminess, in order to give Normal’s plan a chance. The other factor in my mind was what I was risking if I was wrong. If I vote for you and I’m wrong, we lose a vanilla. If I vote for OAOW and I’m wrong, we lose one of the strongest players left in the game.

3071

[QUOTE=Normal Phase]
Oy – really should not be scum, and has been fairly solid lately, but I still can’t quite shake the “got recruited somewhere” thought I had a couple of weeks ago
[/QUOTE]

You got that because I said that Town’s lynch record wasn’t that good. Which I continue to maintain; even peeker was kind of an accident. Maybe it doesn’t get better than that in Mafia. But I can’t but feel that Town has been lucky, and that most of our success has been due to Night Powers, not to any skill Town has shown in choosing Lynch victims.

I don’t know if OaOW was telling the truth or not, but I have not been informed that I had indigestion, so I don’t think I was implanted by Cookies. Otherwise I’m not sure that I would know until the implanted organism took over. But that’s true of anyone in the game, even you.

But I can state without equivocation that I am Town and everything I have said in this thread has been true. If you want testable actions, here they are:

Night One: I gave the Fragile Flower to Drain Bead. (Drain Bead has confirmed)
Night Two: I used the Clay Doll on NAF1138 (NAF confirmed)
Night Three: the Night that wasn’t.
Night Four: I used the Blue Crystal on One And Only Wanderers and saw him target Natlaw. (No independent confirmation on what I did, but I confirm that OaOW did what he said he did.)
Night Five: I used the Small Mirror to shield Natlaw, in case Tom Scud cursed him on his way out, or someone else tried to kill him. (No independent confirmation - Natlaw didn’t die, but I didn’t either, so it looks as if no one targeted him.)
Night Six: I used my probably useless White Powder on someone likely to be Town, rendering them unblockable for Night Seven. Since that Night has not yet occurred, I won’t say who I targetted until toMorrow.

Feel free to test me any way you can. I don’t know if there’s recruitment in this Game, but I can say with certainty that unless I have an Alien growing inside of me that I don’t know about, I have not been recruited.

I don’t mind being NK’ed; I don’t even really mind being Lynched. But you’ve been one of my rocks in this Game, Normal, and I’d hate for you to think I was not Town.

Is Normal’s plan that we start lynching the unconfirmed vanillas? Because I’m perfectly happy to go along with that if you folks want to. I’m with Drain Bead in my reluctance to lynch OaOW yet; he’s very powerful if he’s for real, and he was very helpful in the matter of Scud, even if he did hold off telling us immediately (which, if you’ll recall, actually ended up helping us significantly, since he took out both Astral and Special Ed.).

3072

The truly damning thing for me is that your original claim set you up as the most powerful investigative role in the game. Thus, it presented you as someone who the town should not lynch without very strong evidence. It’s not hard to see why that would appeal to a villain, whereas it’s tough to imagine any plausible reason for a townie choosing that particular deception.

There’s no need for hypotheticals here, since we know for certain that a townie investigator did target NAF. We also know that, following your scan, the investigator in question was put under pressure by a Scum Goon (who then got busted by that same investigator).

Because, even if the nature of the action was twisted, it would show who he acted upon.

From a town perspective, there is no difference. Had you died without revealing the info, the thief might never have been identified. (Unless you were scum, of course, in which case your teammates would still have the info in reserve for when they needed it.)

3073

It’s really not much of a case and I don’t have time to find links right now, but I’ll try and sum it up quickly.

The first part is all based on assumptions about how Story set up this game. It is Evil Dead, so it stands to reason that there should be a Good Ash And an Evil Ash. McGinty has claimed the role of Good Ash (orignal recipe anyway) so that strengthens my belief that there’s an Evil Ash. In the movie, Evil Ash’s primary goal was to get the book. Total Lost claims to have the power to search for the book. And of all the other claimed roles, that one seems the most likely. Yes, it is a weak case base almost purely on assumptions by me.

Primarily, my suspicions have come since my complete clusterfuck of my Hal plan. Total Lost is trying very hard to spin what I did into an act of scummery. He won’t acknowledge that I breadcrumbed my deception to prove it later. And since then, he has also kept up with his vote on Texcat based on her being the only Vanilla town - which is clearly not the case. He’s since recanted and spun it to mean that we should start eliminating the unconfirmed, but that’s not what he originally stated. It just seems like somebody trying to manufacture suspicion.

But what really gets me is this. Last night I blocked Hal and (briefly) claimed that I blocked Texcat. Total Lost states that I had to have known that Texcat would know that I didn’t block her. If Texcat is Vanilla, there is no way that she could have known. Now, was this a scum slip or just a statement that wasnt’ very well thought out? I really could be either, but he has refused to acknowledge that he made that statement. It seems to me that he’s hoping that no one will notice the statement if he ignores it.

The statement itself caused a little suspicion, but his refusal to address it is what is really bothering me.

3074

[QUOTE=Natlaw]

The only scenario where I see brewha as scum is if they decided not to kill at all. If they did kill then either brewha blocked it so isn’t scum or I protected against it and scum targeted brewha.

[QUOTE=Oy!]
Verifying that brewha can block is tantamount to confirming him as town. It’s a useful piece of information.
[/QUOTE]

We’re currently 12 town or 2 scum, maybe 11-3. Even if we confirm brewha more (in my eyes his confirmed enough already) scum needs plenty of kills yet to win. So using his block to stop the kill and possible identify the killer is more useful.
[/QUOTE]

:smack: You’re right. If brewha were Scum, he wouldn’t have blocked Hal, so there’s no way to account for no Scum kill if you protected brewha and brewha was Scum.

OK, that makes brewha Town if you’re Town, and I can’t see you not being Town. Normal is right; Town almost certainly has a doctor.

[QUOTE=Natlaw]
Confimation of your power does not confirm your alignment and scum doctor have used that tactic before (protect town on purpose to generate godd will). Yes, the timing of you claim feels more town to me than not, your actions on their own not so much.
[/QUOTE]

Two of my powers have been confirmed by Town players, Drain and NAF. Do you really think I could have constructed such a complicated false claim that read so much like story and was unambiguously Town and included the two powers I’ve had confirmed thus far? Because in my reading of his past games, story doesn’t construct false claims that actually cover the powers that Scum possess. He constructs totally bogus false claims. So I would have had to take my PM, and construct a completely new PM all about “the power of love, nature, and fluffy puppies” and how my powers “are supportive and protective in nature” and somehow shoehorn whatever Scum powers I had into it, then use them so that they appeared to be pro-Town.

I’m not saying it’s impossible. But I am saying I wish I were that good!

brewha, Total Lost is a Danish goddess, not a guy.

3075

I’m all ears on that one…

3076

I was never really concerned about whether Texcat would know or not.
I was simply wondering if you made that lie and didn’t think what it would mean in others reaction to Texcat and the block leading to a no-kill.

That’s what I was asking you about. What did you think it would mean to Texcat that you claimed twice to have blocked and that it lead to two Nights of No-Kills.

I ask things like that because I have learned that the worse mistake you can make in mafia is to jump to conclusions or anticipate facts by developing theories before you have all the facts…

When that’s said - I have to admit I find your reactions to my questions a bit strange (actually harsh was the first word to jump into my head here).
Why are you so defensive?
I’m asking why you did things and what to know what went on…
How is that scummy?

3077

I really, really don’t see the case on McGinty…
It might be me - but could someone sum it up?

3078

Bwuh?

3079

Could you clarify the source of your confusion?

3080

Did we win yet?