Evil Dead Mafia II - Teaser and Sign-Ups [Game On!]

[NAF1138]

That is to say, if you don’t claim and you are town you are actively going to hurt your team. There may be cultural differences, but it’s still a team game so…

[Mahaloth]

Yes, I think Romanic should claim at this point. It’s quite clear that on Day One, it is unlikely for any other serious suspicion to arise aside from your potential PIS.

[special_ed]

@One_And_Only_Wanderers

@special_ed

Also 4 might not be such a small number if there are half dead people again who count toward the Scum win condition.

How did this work in Evil Dead?

I have read the wiki for the film, and the very scare wiki for ED2, but how did this work as a game mechanic? NK’d people became zombies?

I don’t recall exactly and I’m at work without a real chance to look it up, but I seem to remember that some people were only half dead and they counted as 1/5 of a Scum.

Someone else might be able to correct me. I very easily could be confused/wrong.

[Normal_Phase]

@NAF1138

@Normal_Phase

No, there’s a culture difference here. If you’re going down anyway, it is expected to role claim. Occasionally vanillas will refrain, but no one else (unless you’re Pleonast, who is not in this game). Reason being, if you have a good claim, we have the option to let you off the hook, temporarily or permanently, and to later draw conclusions based on that claim and the reactions to it. It’s a town-friendly thing to do, and not even necessarily a death sentence.

If you are mafia, then claiming is even more important (for the rest of us, that is). You surely have only a limited supply of decent claims; you’d have to use one up. Honestly, if you don’t put up a claim pretty darn quick under the circumstances, I’m going to assume you’re mafia and just want to save them for your teammates.

Wait…So, you know that Romanic is likely not claiming because of a difference in mafia cultural understanding, but you are voting for him anyway?

No – I warned him of the cultural difference and discussed the ramifications of claim/no claim a bit, after which he blew me off and did not claim – then I voted.

Even though you also think that it is likely that he got confused as to what game he was talking about because the other place you play together usually doesn’t have many scum.

That was my initial thought, but the way he handled the claim discussion changed my mind.

Even though you know that he probably won’t claim at the lynch block?

Um…how do I tell you that I think you are smarter than this without insulting you at the same time?

I hope you can make an effort to see it from my perspective.

I am keeping my vote where it is for now because I don’t think that 4 scum is too few necessarily, but damn NP, that is some heavy selling up the river.

Well, all righty then.

[Normal_Phase]

@ Ed – I think that’s correct.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@NAF1138

Also, Romanic, if you are town claiming now would be a good thing. Otherwise we are just going to stop looking for other scum and you are just going to be lynched anyway.

If you are not town feel free to not claim, because you are gonna get lynched for not claiming.

Good point. If Romanic is town, then this might be one of those cases where he just needs to suck it up and take one for the team.

Of course, if he claims Vanilla, it’s likely that nobody is going to believe him anyway…

[Oredigger77]

I ran off to a meeting and forgot to vote at the end of my last post.

Vote Romanic

[Natlaw]

@Romanic

Roleclaiming on day 1 is sick and private talks are forbidden. Given my mistake, any claim could be interpreted as a cover role and would only benefit the mafia anyway, so I’m afraid my answer to your question is “no”.

What is the reason claiming Day One is sick? If it results in you not being lynched then the scum will know what you are. But if you do get lynched it will be revealed to everyone anyway. So scum gets to know it either way and if you’re a power role they don’t have to worry how to kill you because you’re already dead.

I do agree with NAF that while reading up Normal Phase seemed to flip pretty fast. Also I found the asking for a claim pretty fast - four pretty fast votes at that point but it’s only early Day One.
But rereading the slip it is pretty bad in the certainty of the number of scum so I can see that the lynch was more certain in her eyes than mine at that point.

[Hal_Briston]

Woo, I’ve got a little catching up to do (damn clients). Let’s take these as they come and hope they don’t get rendered irrelevant in the meantime.

@Omi_no_Kami

If I were the town doctor or cop and someone asked me to give any potentially identifiable data whatsoever, I would lie my ass off about it.

Too true – I’l never get behind the lynch all liars mentality. You pick up on a giveaway slip, then by all means, bring 'em down. But town can have as much need to lie to scum as scum needs to lie to town – no need to give them a free shot at a power role or get backed into a corner.

@Total_Lost

I do think they have fake Role-PM. That’s my point. We would force them to pick one fake PM and they would have to stick with it.
It’s the stick with it part I like so much.

Why wouldn’t they already be sticking with it? The times I’ve been scum with supplied cover roles, we picked our cover right away and stuck with it. I suppose circumstances could come up where – say a scum is killed by a third party – and if his cover was unrevealed than another scum could scoop it up, but I think we’re talking about a serious longshot there. This smells a whole lot more dangerous to town right now.

@Romanic

I’m asking because the 4th Scum was chosen by the 3 randomly picked scums …

Welcome to Fuckedville. Population: You

Vote Romanic

[Mrs_McGinty]

I’ll be surprised about Romanic posting that mistake if it turns out he’s a villain. Having played umpteen games with the guy, I’d say one of his standout traits when playing as mafia is his attention to detail. To make such a huge error early on would be somewhat out of character. On the other hand, I suppose the pressure of being scum in his first game here might have caused him to lose the plot…

In any case, I agree with the call for him to roleclaim now. If the whole town gets caught up with a runaway bangwagon today, and gains nothing from it, that’s a big plus for the scum.

I also feel that Normal Phase’s reaction was a little off. She and Roman have played as mafia together recently (I still haven’t forgiven the guy who handed them their last-gasp win), and I feel like she’s treating him as scummier than I’d expect, especially over this roleclaim thing. (Where we normally play together, roleclaims are pretty rare, and nobody but a noob would claim this early in the day, unless they had some other agenda. Yes, NP did tell us that it’s different here, but such habits die hard).

[peekercpa]

ok, i have never played with roman before so to some extent i have to lean on other folks’ perception of his play.

but i just have to say, that what he said is kind of a lynching offense in these parts.

and since i have not encountered him (or at least that i know) on either idle or giraffe maybe he plays a game markedly different that what i am accusomed to. his reluctance to mitigate the comment that he makes seems odd in the context of what i am used to.

so for now

vote roman

[Normal_Phase]

I’d expect him to listen to me if he were town, you know? I mean, I’m obviously not saying that for my health, that role claims are expected here when you’re the likely lynch. Assume he’s town for the moment. When I point out the cultural expectations here, he knows I’m not lying about it, it doesn’t even matter what my alignment is. He has to know I’m telling the truth. Yet he still just brushed it off.

[lilflower]

@Oredigger77

I just not sure what to make of the Romantic thing. On the one hand if I was going to assume number of scum I would guess 30^.5 or 5-6 scum so I could see saying 4 +1 but 4 total is way off. Unless there is either PIS or confusion with another game. I think the PIS is more probable.

I don’t like early Day bandwagons since there is a high likelihood of scum taking an easy opportunity to jump on the first town slip. I’m temped to look at the early bandwagon joiners as a group of people where scum are more likely to be present.

But damn the slip was so bad I can’t ignore it. I think it’s early so I’ll get my vote out there but I doubt it will stick, if for no other reason then to start working on my case for toMarrow since our votes are sticky.

@Oredigger77

I ran off to a meeting and forgot to vote at the end of my last post.

Vote Romanic

So you don’t like the Romanic-bandwagon and only the early jumper-oners are more likely to be scum, but since you are late to jump on, you aren’t as likely to be scum? Where is the cut off? It seems to me that if you truly think this is a bandwagon (i.e., opportunistic vote), then pretty much anyone is fair game, don’t you think? It just seems like this post is a way of saying that you don’t want us to think you are scummy for casting a bandwagon vote but others should be considered scummy.

And I don’t understand what you mean when you say you don’t think your vote will stick but that the votes are sticky? I know votes roll over but I’m not quite sure I get what you are saying here.

[Mrs_McGinty]

@peekercpa

what he said is kind of a lynching offense in these parts.

What he said is probably a lynching offence anywhere, which is why I’ll be surprised if he’s mafia.

[Rysto]

@Mrs_McGinty

@peekercpa

what he said is kind of a lynching offense in these parts.

What he said is probably a lynching offence anywhere, which is why I’ll be surprised if he’s mafia.

Eh, you’d be surprised about the kind of slips that people can make. storyteller, who I consider what of the best mafia players on the SDMB, made a very similar error in Cecilvania.

[Nanook_of_the_North_Shore]

Man, you wander off for a bit and all hell breaks loose huh? At least it’s a different discussion than yet another endless role claim/not role claim discussion, which is what had been shaping up originally. And look, no handshake debacle this time! Yay!

Two scum teams seems unlikely based on the PM posting Story made about the scum picking one. But multiple SKs and therefore many deaths per Night is extremely possible, maybe even likely based on the last ED game. That could certainly balance out a smaller than expected scum team.

** Vote Romanic **

[Oredigger77]

@lilflower

So you don’t like the Romanic-bandwagon and only the early jumper-oners are more likely to be scum, but since you are late to jump on, you aren’t as likely to be scum? Where is the cut off? It seems to me that if you truly think this is a bandwagon (i.e., opportunistic vote), then pretty much anyone is fair game, don’t you think? It just seems like this post is a way of saying that you don’t want us to think you are scummy for casting a bandwagon vote but others should be considered scummy.

And I don’t understand what you mean when you say you don’t think your vote will stick but that the votes are sticky? I know votes roll over but I’m not quite sure I get what you are saying here.

I was posting my thought process and as far as I’m concerned there is no chance of me being scum unless I get recruited. So I don’t think I’m scummy for casting a bandwagon vote and I do think others are, possibly.

Votes are sticky in that even the end of the day does not remove them nothing short of an unvote or death does. I’m planning on spending the rest of the Day looking else where and get a head start of the voting for toMorrow since a vote I cast toDay will still count tomorrow. I also didn’t just want to throw out an FOS and move on I wanted to put my money where my mouth was and at least temporarily put a vote out.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Vote Romanic

It is time to claim and/or hang, I’m afraid. If the worst for you comes to pass, just know that you are in good company of newly arrived players who have gone down in similar fashions before you.

Oy!: My gently teasing post (and I’m glad that you did/do see it as gently teasing) is based on the premise that the only subsection of players who may be in doubt as to whether the game had actually started yet would have been the not-yet-scum. The self-aware scum off talking of their recruiting choices would have known that the game had indeed already started for all intents and purposes. A simple (and popular) method of manipulation in such situations is for scum to make statements or ask questions that would make it seem like they are just an innocent little confused Townie/not-yet-scum.

It was teasing in nature because I knew you were newish to the game and perhaps not familiar with that particular nuance to early game play. It is a quite common discussion point / smear tactic / meme that pops up in the Mafia communities that I and others in this game usually play in (which all trace their origins here to the first Werewolf game).

As would be expected, such statements are also quite commonly uttered by the legitimately confused or the legitimately frustrated, as I did myself by accusing people of being suspicious of me while we were in not-yet-scum limbo as “barking up the wrong tree”, and as I did again just now by using that as an example of the legitimately frustrated.

[Mrs_McGinty]

@Normal_Phase

I’d expect him to listen to me if he were town, you know? I mean, I’m obviously not saying that for my health, that role claims are expected here when you’re the likely lynch. Assume he’s town for the moment. When I point out the cultural expectations here, he knows I’m not lying about it, it doesn’t even matter what my alignment is. He has to know I’m telling the truth. Yet he still just brushed it off.

Bear in mind that there’s still a long time left to go. No matter how large the bandwagon is at this point, a lot can change in three days. If he has a sensitive role, then he might well be hesitant to claim even under this pressure, hoping that he can talk his way out whilst keeping his identity concealed.

He’d be wrong, of course.

Roleclaiming - and soon - is now the minimum requirement for your survival, Roman. Even if it isn’t enough, at least we’d gain something from your lynch.

[lilflower]

@Oredigger77

I was posting my thought process and as far as I’m concerned there is no chance of me being scum unless I get recruited. So I don’t think I’m scummy for casting a bandwagon vote and I do think others are, possibly.

So it’s OK for you because you know you are town?

@Oredigger77

Votes are sticky in that even the end of the day does not remove them nothing short of an unvote or death does. I’m planning on spending the rest of the Day looking else where and get a head start of the voting for toMorrow since a vote I cast toDay will still count tomorrow. I also didn’t just want to throw out an FOS and move on I wanted to put my money where my mouth was and at least temporarily put a vote out.

I understand that the votes stick until toMorrow unless they are unvoted. But why did you say that you didn’t think your vote [on Romanic] toDay would stick?