That’s hilarious. 
I think I came up with my scum don’t need to fish stance right around Dr. Horrible, so it would have been after that. Still funny.
NETA: and in retrospect Chucara was right. And the alpha/beta claim probably would have helped.
I’ll play.
Fishing can cause distraction and chaos.
I actually disagree with NAF a bit on the “scum don’t need to fish” part. Occasionally they do. Sometimes they even fish when they don’t need to. But townies also ask questions of and regarding power roles, for perfectly valid reasons – they’re trying to find out who the scum are, and the power role information is part of the data set. This makes fishing, as such, almost completely useless as a scum tell.
It’s also something that scum find it really easy to accuse others of. It’s nice and definite – it’s easy to see and easy to understand, and a lot of townies do see it as inherently scummy, which makes it a useful accusation for them (until someone like me calls them on it). That’s what I’d like to see change.
Others have already covered the fishing bit Naf, so I won’t go over it again. But I will agree with you sort of that the term fishing gets thrown about too much by people. Of course, that goes for most of the “scum tells” that have neat little buzz words attached to them. Fishing, smudging, snuggling, etc. It’s probably mostly a case of it being easier to use a recognizable term than to explain what you really mean.
In regards to your question to Maha, I’m a little confused as to what “fishing” you think say a Detective is doing that will give him away. Or a Doctor for that matter. It’s not like a Detective has a pressing need to find power roles for his ability to work. Doctor maybe, but generally speaking the Doctor is best off self protecting at least to start. The only roles I can relaly see “fishing” in the sense most people mean it is Vig and Roleblocker, in an effort to avoid other power roles. But even then I don’t think that people with those roles generally do so.
This is more or less the main thrust of my argument. Fishing is a bad tell that won’t net you scum nearly often enough to be worthwhile. But that doesn’t make for the same sort of quality slogan as “scum don’t need to fish.”
What are those hallmarks, exactly?
What makes you lean town?
Can you link the possible slip in 431 for us to see and compare? I’d go look it up myself, but I’m short on time.
Yes, what Normal said as well. Innocent fishing can be hijacked by scum, either to incriminate the innocent or to encourage extra info out of the game that the scum might want (I don’t happen to share NAF’s confident that Scum are always have their fingers on the pulse of everything in the game) while being able to point the finger at the innocent who started the fishing if things go south.
As for how pertinent this all is to our current situation, who knows. I’m re-reading Oredigger, though Wanderers has been damn quiet and had been getting some heat before the Romanic thing went down.
Yeah, I know. Just felt like pontificating a bit more.
You want me to set up scenarios, or do you want to move on with the game?
I was more thinking of Vigs and roleblockers and other special roles. But townies are fishing…for scum. That’s sort of the whole point of the game. Fishing is a bad tell.
I might be too old to be considered a girl, but I am female.
I am going to re-read tonight, but my initial reaction to Oredigger bringing up a no-lynch was wtf? The timing of his suggestion seems suspicious and from memory it seems inconsistent with his previous positions.
I do think that scum are more likely to point out possible fishing, as well as possible PIS, though I don’t have enough data yet to support that hypothesis. And like most things, I don’t think either is a sure-tell, but certainly a data point worth considering.
So it’s ok for you to ask that sort of question of Maha but not for me to ask it of you? I don’t know whether to be suspicious or insulted.
If you define fishing broadly enough, sure every single person in the game is guilty of it. But that isn’t how most people define it.
Neither? My question to Maha was something like 90% rhetorical, I assumed yours was too and that my answer about Vigs and things was good enough.
I find it highly amusing that my rant about fishing has gained so much traction though since people have paid it very little attention in the past. I suppose I should be glad people are actually reading what I have to say.
You want a scenario, fine, I’ll give you a scenario, but then you have to tell me how you think this conversation is changing your judgment of me as scum or town. Deal?
Cops need to clear town more than they need to find scum. If you don’t accept that straight off then there is little use in us talking about strategy because we are coming from very different places. So it would be in a Cops best interest to try to suss out who does not have a power role so as to more easily clear townies.
Or this
It’s Day 2 of mafia and someone proposes that everyone post trust distrust lists. Those posted lists lead directly to the mafia slaying of a Cop. The person who proposed the lists and lead the fishing expedition is obviously scum right?
Ok, I am fucking with you with that one.
If you don’t get it ask Rysto, I bet he remembers.
How do you define it?
Which game was that again? How did that all play out?
Nothing I can nail down. It just sounds like the town v. town fight that seems to come up every game. Like ed and me last game.
This was re: Oredigger. Same deal, nothing specific, just a feeling.
Sure, lazy.
Bolding mine.
Uh, sorry about the dubious thing, then. Consider it more of a “did I hear that right” face with a serious look. It may have come off too strong. I just think you are wrong.
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Early on in the game? Looking for oddities or people trying to play without stepping on any toes.
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Depends on the power. Usually players just ping me as “off” or “odd”. If I’m suspicious of them, I’ll target them if I’m a investigator. If I’m a protector, I’ll usually protect myself until I think I can guess who the scum might go for. I’ve never been a vigilante(except in inblorious gasterds where we all were).
You’re right, but not “quite” convinced, to me, still means not being convinced.
So again, I just find it odd-looking.
OK. I have gone back and re-read them and they still make Oredigger look scummy.
vote: Oredigger
Can someone explain how the book works? Could I send a PM right now and say that I want to take the book? Or is it only the first person during the day who gets it? And then is it again the first person to send a PM during the night who gets it? Or do we have to wait till toMorrow to attempt to get it? Or do we have to wait until NAF dies or gives it up?
Story has said, earlier, it’s the first person who messages during the beginning of a cycle (Day/Night).